 Poster: A snowHead
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On one hand I'm quite happy with using a burly pair of midfats in pretty much all conditions.
On the other hand summer is coming and to take the pain away I may consider getting a new pair of skis to fondle during the hot months.
If successful, these may become an all-purpose ski. Therefore I'm considering something that can ski powder well but still handle crud, chopped up, crust, and even minimal groomer use (getting from A to B, really).
I've been doing quite a bit of reading and decided that I might as well go for a "hybrid shape" with regular sidecut and regular camber underfoot but with an early rise tip rocker. I don't really think that for the conditions I will encounter 95% of the time I need a specialist "100% inverse camber inverse sidecut" ski.
The models I've been thinking of:
186 PM Gear Lhasa Pow
190 DPS Wailer 112 RP - Pure or Hybrid
190 Whitedot Redeemer
185 Armada JJ Pro
Maybe the Rossignol S7
I think I'll put touring bindings on them...maybe the new Marker FT12 or Diamir Eagle, not sure I'm moving to Dynafits by next season.
More info: 89 kgs, will ski pretty much anywhere on the mountain but hardly ever huck anything. I like relatively fast and aggressive skiing (for an amateur. Guides, ex-racers, many seasonnaires will still leave me far behind).
I currently love my Kneissl Tankers (180 cm, 93mm, heavy) and I really liked the Scott Missions before them (183cm). I still haven't fallen in love with my 187 High Society FRs, though I can ski them everywhere (it may be the bindings, I'm constantly worried about double ejecting).
Any thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In my (incredibly limited) touring experience, I found tail rocker really irritating. Lhasas are a great ski, but will punish you if you get caught back seat on firm snow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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horizon, The Redeemer, which I had when I skied with you, will fit the bill for your needs. It is very good in all soft snow conditions and the rocker makes it behave very well in crusty conditions. It has no camber though. It does have some sidecut which makes it work on groomers. Its groomer performance is more than good enough for getting from A to B, and having fun doing it.
I have lent them to some friends who loved them. Pity I didnt catch up with you on the last trip you could have taken them for a rip in perfect conditions.
The JJ is very popuar around Verbier, a lot of the Powder extreme instructors and clients use them. One friend who used them said he would prefer less side cut.
The Kuro is worth putting on the list too. bobinch loves em and CSki really enjoyed them too.
There are a few guys here on the Lhasa who love it. It might be closest in you list to the Tankers but wider and with rocker.
My experiences of the 187 High Societies are mostly good; groomer performance top class, very good in powder and choped powder, awesome at blasting slush and really grippy on chalky snow. But in wind packed and crusty snow they are too stiff and cambered for me and they expose my weaknesses. I find the Redeemer infinitely more forgiving in these conditions.
As you mention the Mission I too found it a good all mountain ski and regularly ski the slightly narrower Scott Neo which I enjoy skiing in all conditions except ice (note to self sharpen edges and angulate).
Hope this is useful.
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horizon, Sorry I dont tour on them so cant comment but also tail rockerd so DaveC's, comment likely applies to these too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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well i've put some cash down on the DPS. gone for the pure construction but i'll be sticking dukes on them and using them for lift served skiing with bits of skinning rather than all-day touring. hybrids sound pretty sweet too
i have skied with a couple of people who have s7s and love them. i understand they are a bit soft but Bobby (Vertigo on TGR) went from Legend Pros to s7s and was really stoked on them. he's a bit lighter weight then you or I but probably puts as much power through a ski, I would say!
not sure i'd recommend Diamirs on a ski that wide, although if you don't mind Naxo-style slop, the Diamirs will probably be better!
edit to add: I have about 10 days or so on my DPS Wailer 105s now, and their performance is part of what inspired me to go for the 112s. in all off piste snow conditions, they are just FUN. even breakable crust - the medium-radius set of tracks in this pic are mine and this was all breakable crust. i would have been swearing and cursing all the way down on my LPs:
they are pretty incredible on groomed snow too. no claims that they are as fast edge to edge as SL skis but they are so torsionally stiff that once you get them there they really do rail... and like to go fast. it took me a little time to get used to the feel on piste. i don't generally spend my whole time on my edges and these things are quite keen to be on edge and less damp than my old LPs, so you need to concentrate a bit. no problem after a couple of runs but there were a couple of times when the edges bit when i was not expecting it, requiring a quick recovery maneuver
as for the DEEP powder day on the Grands Montets, well that would have been pretty good fun on Mr Murdoch's race room SL skis, but the Wailers allowed this old f@rt to achieve all sorts of fun things - big fast GS turns (in questionable vis - all good fun), relatively wiggle ones, slashes, face shots etc they also coped pretty well when i hit the odd submerged rock 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 12-04-10 13:14; edited 1 time in total
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If i were in the market for new fatter skis. I'd probably be seriously considering a pair of the new Kingswood 187 Rocketypes. I all ready have a pair of their archetypes & I have to say whilst there are definitely some compromises in their when it comes to getting about on piste when conditions aren't great they're awesome all rounders. I'd have no hesitation buying a second pair. Especially seeing as they're exceptionally cool & rare in Europe.
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horizon, if you're buying big burly skis stick solid bindings on them. I'm guessing you're not going to be doing a lot of touring? I've now used Dukes (on Kuros), Freeride + (on Mythics) and Dynafit FT12's (on Bros) and would definitly stick with Dukes for bigger skis. For longer tours the Dynafits are great for the light weight but I've popped out a few times (on DIN 10) - no doubt partly due to my inexperience with them. The Dukes are bomb proof.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bobinch, no doubt the whole mail-order thing from the US adds a hassle factor if you have issues with the skis (and shipping costs even if they are fine). have to say the finish standard on my wailers was really impressive. i got some 06/07 Lotus 120 blems which are fine structurally but suffer from chipping topsheets (this was an issue back then and why they were blems) - it certainly looks like DPS have got their construction and finishing nailed down now... touch wood
agree on bindings but i'd check everything is aligned properly on the dynafits. only prereleases for me have been user error. seems a shame to get a high tech, high performance ski and then put on a binding that... well... isn't (i'm thinking eagle/naxo here - the marker FT12 looks like it might be quite solid)
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bobinch, suprised you had a bad experience with PM Gear, they've been as good as their TGR rep suggests when I've dealt with them. Mind going into it? If I could justify (and afford) a third ski I'd be really tempted with a new 183 w/ dynafits, or Wailers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DaveC, enquired about a pair of 183 bros and was told they were sold out but had a couple of pairs with "topsheet slightly out of line" for $100 off. Not bothered about graphic (I have last years Kuros  ) so bought them. Open them up and it's immediately obvious that the rise is different on the tips and the camber is out - clamp them in the middle and there is 3mm? of gap between them at the mid point to the tails. They're basically warped. Fire off an email asking about this to be told "That's the blem", "mount them up, you won't notice". Couldn't believe it... Naive idiot that I am I took the guy at his word and mount them up. They don't ski properly. Thinking it may be the tune, take them to the old Swiss tech here who points out that the edges aren't finished. Tunes them properly but they still ski weird (losing the back end in a hard carve). Then notice they've started delaminating after like 2 days use. Having wasted money on postage, mounting, tune, the PM Gear guy says ship them back (at your cost) and we'll send you some more. Yeah right... It's with my credit card company on the basis that they missold the skis. Have the sorry email trail and photos to prove it... Even after the $100 off I paid $739 + $150 postage for these skis. That's top dollar for a pair of skis the guy knows is dud before he ships them to me in Europe.... I can't believe the good reputation they have on TGR. I just can't believe it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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horizon, a mate has a brand new pair of last years (better graphics) hellbents for sale....if interested let me know
okbye
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Arno, those 112's sure as hell look like nice skis. I hope they ski as good as they look! Did you get the "Sweden specials"? Would probably have been interested in the 95's for the touring setup had I not been put off by the PM Gear experience. A bit of topsheet chipping wouldn't have been an issue for me. But being sold bent skis as topsheet blems???
I take it you've got FT12's on the 105's?
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 12-04-10 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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snowpatrol,
Are they in 189? I think i got mine to small at 179 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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bobinch, FT12s = too heavy  went for TLT speeds
good news is that DPS are slowly getting themselves set up to sell in actual shops. only one in Europe so far but you would have thought that somewhere like Chamonix or Verbier would be an obvious candidate for a stockist.
was tempted by the Sweden specials but thought they were a bit too much even for a lover of bright colours like me! gone for both skis in the banana yellow
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Arno wrote: |
| bobinch, good news is that DPS are slowly getting themselves set up to sell in actual shops. only one in Europe so far but you would have thought that somewhere like Chamonix or Verbier would be an obvious candidate for a stockist. |
You'd think so but I guess they want to make sure the distribution and level of service is right. Someone messes up their reputation for them and it's hard to get back... Also, not sure how well supported a new US manufacturer would be in somewhere like Cham?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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good points all - the DPS offering is fairly unique though. i don't think anything touches the pure models in terms of light weight but no compromises in skiability (I haven't fondled the Scott Crusair though so maybe they are up there)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bobinch, did you deal with Pat at PM? I know they did have a lot of trouble with finishes, and the blems are pretty notorious for coming with no tune and uneven bases. Then again, from personal and public experience, their blems are usually exactly as described - so I'm really suprised you got misled. Agreed, it sounds like a bad situation that was handled unprofessionally.
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DaveC, Pat - that's the guy. Seems to make it up as he goes along and just ignores any points he can't answer or doesn't like the sound of.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good stuff guys, keep it coming, not that it's getting me anywhere nearer a decision!
Arno, based on reviews I'm wondering if the 112 RP Hybrid makes more sense than the Pure since these will not be pow-only or touring-only weapons...
bobinch, you show me the goods, you get first track rights! One of these days I'll race you down. On Tankers! (I DO have the weight "advantage"...)
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horizon, if you want to get more details on dps get in touch with marshal olson on Tgr. I think he is testing in AK right now (tough life) but he is super- helpful.
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The Preacher maybe enough in terms of versatility rather than going all out for the Redeemer. Seeing as you normally drive though and can still your other skis in the car, get the Redeemer, you'll be stoked.
Faction 3.Zero should be on the list for true do everything quiver of one-ness. Or Royales for pow slay joy-ness.
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milnerhome,yep 189's..he's also got brand new marker griffons which were going on them if you needed those too....let me know if interested...
okbye
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| horizon wrote: |
Arno, based on reviews I'm wondering if the 112 RP Hybrid makes more sense than the Pure since these will not be pow-only or touring-only weapons...
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I'm really in need of convincing about the 112 RP. 15m radius? Really? Just looks a bit... weird to me. This is from skiing the Lhasa though, which is the same concept in a different direction I guess.
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| parlor wrote: |
The Preacher maybe enough in terms of versatility rather than going all out for the Redeemer. Seeing as you normally drive though and can still your other skis in the car, get the Redeemer, you'll be stoked.
Faction 3.Zero should be on the list for true do everything quiver of one-ness. Or Royales for pow slay joy-ness. |
Second the Faction 3.Zero. Great fun on everything.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'll be interested to see what you go for, as I'm in a similar dilema. I had almost settled on the S7's, but I'm intrigued about DPS/Whitedot Freeride...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DaveC, think the radius is a bit of a misleading measurement - with all the tip and tail it's never going to behave like a run of the mill shortish radius ski in 3D snow
and i think the dims are messed up on the dps website - pretty sure the 190 has a 18m radius
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Fair enough Arno - looking at just the shape rather than the stats, it looks like it fits into the Lhasa/S7/Super 7 type mold, which are skis I love, so I bet it'll be awesome. Would love to try it - I'm pretty sold on a pinned tail at the mo, but the whole SS/pure carbon thing is pretty exciting. From the scandi girl pics, the rocker profile looks pretty extreme though - wonder if that and the deep sidecut will effect how it charges...
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You know it makes sense.
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DaveC, lots of good info from Marshal Olson in the thread on this very subject i started on TGR. he reckons the effective radius lengthens (I think) as you get more angulation (interesting...) and certainly the running length does
edit: but hey, who knows. it's certainly a but of a punt buying skis that hardly anyone, least of all myself, has skied. however, the stats look like potentially even more fun that the W105s and i have some faith in the genius of the designers at DPS
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have a pair of K2 Coombacks and find them create in power, crud and skiing on piste if required.
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowpatrol, I am currently in the market for a pair of pow specific skis. I am, at present, leaning towards K2 Hellbent v K2 Pontoons as there are some economically viable options available. I note your reference to you buddy selling last years model et al. Can you PM me with the details please. I am also interested to hear any fellow snowheads experiences ,relative merits, preferences with regards to these skis. Many thanks in anticipation!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| horizon wrote: |
| ).......I still haven't fallen in love with my 187 High Society FRs, though I can ski them everywhere (it may be the bindings, I'm constantly worried about double ejecting)........ |
horizon, What bindings do you have on your FR's & why do you worry about double ejecting?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, totally OT, but how're you finding your 183 bros? When do you pick them up over Lhasas/a groomer ski?
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Hi clem156, skiied the Hellebent's a fair bit when they first came out but no experiences with the Pontoons. Found the m pretty sweet in pure pow, easy to ski, not too stiff, easy to pivot and good through the trees. However, they were just damn scary on piste, heavy, soft and cheaper materials (eg base and topsheets comming apart relatively easily, not only from some of the ones I had some runs in but from friends aswell), overall a ski I like the concept of but wouldnt spend my hard earned on. The Redeemer was a concept we have worked on for about ...erm... three years now and has gone through approx 5 different rocker stages to get to the current design, we designed it to be all that skis like the Hellbent and ep Pro etc are in pow but in a more versatile package using the absolutely best construction available, I love it!
As for a few more shout-outs, heard good things about DPS and PM Gear but never had the pleasure of getting on a pair or dealing with the company, and personally wouldnt step into a pair of Rossi's after my experiences with them, found them pretty dull and unresponsive in general.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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spyderjon, I have new Naxo NX22s. I replaced my old NX21s precisely because I felt I was ejecting too easily. It's better on the NX22s but I've still had a few moments when I thought I faceplanted far too easily (for instance in situations where the tip of the ski slowed down under the snow in uneven terrain, and although I'm still balanced and charging, instead of pulling through, the ski stays there and I go flying). The trouble is that in anything but light powder the worry makes me hang back on my tails much more than I would normally.
Since then, I tried to be REALLY careful when I click in and I noticed that it can take up to 3-4 attempts for each ski until the binding engages correctly at the back. One worry is that the Vibram sole on my boots is protruding a little (1-2mm) at the back, due to all the walking I've done in them. Perhaps that's what makes the binding misbehave but I have no such problems (either clicking in or double-ejecting) on my Marker Barons.
Oh yeah, I've cranked the heel DINs up to 11-12 after the last incidents. It's at 10 on the Barons.
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Update - shortlist now is:
- DPS Wailer 112 RP Hybrid 190
- 191 Lhasa Pow (used, too expensive new)
- ON3P Wrenegade 191 -heaviest of these three, probably most stable, least rocker (but they have one). They will either be the perfect skis for my style or a disappointment like the HSFRs. The good thing is that buying them would give me a good reason to buy another pair of lighter skis for touring...
gotta pull the trigger in the next few days if I go for the DPS, their pre-sale ends 7 June.
clarky999, I saw your thread on TGR (at least I think it's yours..do I get a beer if I tell you who Huck Schmuck is?). Made up your mind yet?
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horizon, go for rocker dude. I know you like your traditional antiques but you won't regret it. And after my experience with them I would avoid PM Gear like the plague. I've finally got my money refunded on the faulty 183 bros but only through following it up with the credit card company.
Personally I would choose something from a local (European) company but I like what Arno says about his experience with DPS.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
clarky999, I saw your thread on TGR (at least I think it's yours..do I get a beer if I tell you who Huck Schmuck is?). Made up your mind yet?
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Yep!!
No, I haven't decided yet, it's a toughie... I'm tending towards the Night Trains, although partly that's 'cos they're easily avaibale through Ellis Brigham, but I also really like the look of the ON3P Billy Goats. My preference would be the DPS Wailer 112's, but I just can't afford them. 190 Redeemers are sexy too, but I think maybe a little too fat...
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 4-06-10 13:30; edited 1 time in total
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BobinCH, The Wrenegade has 15 cm of tip rocker...also built like a tank,2.5 mm edges and 1.8 mm base thickness
Lhasas would be second hand off a maggot
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FAQ
Parlor also seems to speak highly about them.
) as my late season trip never happened due to work committments (