 Poster: A snowHead
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I have been doing a bit of thinking recently, and was wondering what it takes to become a ski instructor? Is there anyone on here that could possibly give me some sort of indication and ideas of cost, how good you have to be, location, timescales etc. Thanks, rick.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a career or as a part-time job because you enjoy teaching?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not really sure if im being honest about it. What would you recommend? I really know nothing about it. Just interested at the moment.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Your questions are quite broad ranging and it's difficult to answer without knowing exactly what you are interested, but in summary the British system of ski instructor qualifications has four levels. L1 will enable you to teach in snowdomes and plastic slopes; L2 will allow you to teach in the mountains in some countries and is unlikely to earn you enough to live on without taking up other employment; L3 is internationally certified and opens up more employment prospects, including options for southern hemisphere teaching so making it a year-round career if you wish; and L4 will put you in a position where more significant money can be earned, certainly enough to live on. If you want to get to L4 you have to be prepared to spend a lot of time and money as the standard of skiing and teaching required to pass the many exams you take to reach that level (about 28 different courses last time I added it up) is a serious commitment. Other national systems are similar in terms of the commitment required to reach internationally certified qualifications, although there are some differences in the path you would need to take.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just sent you a private message rob@rar, cheers.
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As a career there would be a lot of work ahead of you. To make decent money you need to hold you ISIA or ideally your ISTD (BASI Level 4 or equivalent).
If you get in touch with BASI you can begin and book onto a course. There are levels 1 through 4. The cost is pretty big.
You can do your 1 fairly cheap indoors in the UK.
After that the level 2 requires 1st Aid and child protection and a 2 week exam which includes tech and teach around the £700 mark before travel accom and pass.
Then the Level 3 or ISIA;
Level 3 Mountain Safety
Alpine Development Coach Level 1 (or freestyle)
Alpine Development Coach Level 2 (ditto)
Alpine Level 3 ISIA Teaching
Common Theory in Scotland
Alpine Level 3 ISIA Technical
200 Hours Teaching Experience
SC UK - Introduction to Sports Physiology
SC UK - Introduction to Structure of the Body
Second Language
Second Discipline (boarding/telemark etc)
Then the L4 ISTD.
This is easier in that there are less exams. Just 3, Tech Teach and Mountain Safety (you need to do compulsory for this) Also requires a Eurotest.
Total cost of the 3 & 4 alone is £3200ish. Assuming you pass everything 1st time around. Also this doesnt include your travel accommodation and lift passes...
So it seems like a lot. But if you really want to do it then you can make it worthwhile! Private instructors here (Chatel) charge 50 euros per hour with most of that going straight into their pockets. So you can earn good money and hours are flexible of you are private (only possible in Europe with the L4)
It all sums up to be equivalent to a degree pretty much. The only way to bring cost down is to race. With sub 50 FIS you get exams free and do not have to enter certain ones (technical). If you have I think 100 FIS points or below you get exams half price. Easiest way to do this would be to travel to Iran to get good FIS points.
Hope this helps, and doesnt put you off! If you really want to do it you can slowly build up over several years and move around resorts living the life of a seasonnaire. Until you have your top level and become private or become a race coach (or working on a gao course programme or something). If you find you really enjoy it you can always aim to be a trainer eventually.
Maybe someone will post a link to a more comprehensive guide!?
Hope this helped!
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cheers for the info.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PS you dont have to hold your BASI. The Swiss and Americans will employ people with little or no qualifications. Just you level 2 will get you work in Switzerland or America, maybe Canada although it is tough to find work there now and VISA' are becoming tricky.
So it doesnt have to cost all that much but you can make the most money this way including in the countries mentioned above, and easily find work as well as continuing to improve your own skiing though the exam/training process.
Also dont be intimidated going into the exams, not all instructors are awe inspiring skiers 
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cheers for the help on here guys, really thankfull. R555MAC, where in lancashire are you based?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I was going to do my class one so I can teach as a part time during college on this new dry slope which is opening near me
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ricklovesthepowder, 6 miles from Clitheroe in the country side (towards Lancaster). My first couple of years skiing (age 6 to  were on Pendle hill (used to live in Sabden as a kid) and at Rawtenstall aswell. Thats where I got the bug and I am currently going through the BASI system. My sister is in the Canadian system CSIA. We are a skiing family really!
Manchester gives you easy access to the ChillFactore at least, that will save you some money by getting your 1 there. The trainers can give you tips as to what you should be working on regrading your 2. If you have some reasonable experience on a set of skis and can ski the whole mountain (and carve) then you have the technical ability to get a level 2. You just need the sense about you for the teaching aspect, but at the level 2 standard again this is not all that hard.
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i know that area very well, i have relatives in Higham!!! never skied the dry slope at sabden but been past it lots of times. if you ever fancy a ski at chill factor then drop me a message and i will be more than happy to go as non of my mates ski (or board). cheers for the help.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have some friends that teach in Canada (snowboarding) with BASI 2. Not sure how that relates to the skiing qualifications.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you're prepared to learn German, the Austrian system is considerably cheaper, involving less course/exams - although it won't neccessarily be quicker to do as the standard is jsut as high. To do the first level in many systmes you don't need to be that good - the demos for level will be snowpough parrallel, or whatever BASI call it. Carven grundstuffe auf deutsch.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It takes a lot of commitment, accepting working for peanuts, and taking enjoyment from teaching to get started, then even more commitment to make a career of it. The system you choose is a massive influence - personally R555MAC's list of modules and requirements for BASI 3 makes me cringe, and I'm much happier in the CSIA system, which is more lassiez faire and requires you develop yourself rather than attend a course of modules to get to the standard. It's also arguably less useful outside of Canada.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DaveC, those are ISIA requirements, not BASI requrements. (exc. L4 which as pointed out has many fewer modules than l3). Any organistation without as least as many training hours as BASI has for L3, is not meeting the requirements to award the ISIA stamp.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, CSIA doesn't adhere to the ISIA now, so theres' lots more focus on "skiing" and "teaching"
*ducks*
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DaveC, I quite fancied having a pop at the Canadian L3 (and may still, for the training). Tiss a shame that it's lost it's ISIA stamp as the training looked excellent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ricklovesthepowder, key question is where do you plan to take your exams and where you would like to teach, if canada CSIA would make sense, America PSIA, Europe BASI. as beanie1 says if you want to work in multiple territories, southern hemisphere etc the ISIA is a good way to go and gets rid of a lot of visa issues as you are considered a ski professional. Canadians for instance dont get full time work in Europe as far as i know.
A key difference between BASI and others is that BASI is training based and the others tend to be shorter and just exam based. I learned a lot on my BASI courses and my skiing improved hugely so i saw the value in the courses i took, On the flip side you could go to canada get a level 1 and start teaching straight away, training in your spare time with colleagues and rock up for exams when ready, DaveC, could probably comment (if he decides to be helpful and not to troll )
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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david@mediacopy, arent you BASI? why not have a go at the technical?
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david@mediacopy, yep, can't say I'm not dissapointed about the lack of ISIA stamp, and I'm hoping some form of equivilancy top up course is in the pipeline but I doubt it. skimottaret, afaik CSIA3's are employable in Europe, just not France, and yeah, you're right it's built for progressing while you work - level 1 is an intro to teaching and quite easy, and 2 can be "brute forced" with intensive courses, but there's much more emphasis on the examining body being more detached at the high end and by level 3 the exam is 2 days of pass/fail (There's a specific 5 day course you have to take as a pre-req but that's it.). I've trained with the in house trainers and feel I've developed a lot as a skier and teacher. I'm sure every other system has it's benefits, but I can only speak for mine.
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As far as Southern Hemisphere teaching goes with CSIA 2 getting a visa and a job aren't a problem. Earning enough money to survive is 
I think the standards for both BASI2 and CSIA2 should be a bit higher. Seems far too attainable without having put in too much work...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Yep, BASI \ SSE.
Mountain Safety next for sure, and depending on the fitness requirement I'd be tempted to look at the EMS. Still pondering which way to go with the ISIA quali's, if at all.
The real question for me is how to reconcile business & 'real life' with spending more time in the mountains skiing. I can't afford to be an Instructor full time, and wouldn't want too, but I do enjoy teaching.
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Personally I think the standard for L1 should be higher.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, depends what for really. As far as I know, CSIA1 allows you to teach up to green runs in Canada (that's what the rule is in Fernie anyway) - you have to have lower end instructors since there're way more low end clients and not many full certs, plus people have to get into the profession somehow. Rookie year level 1's employed by a mountain are accepted as still needing to learn a lot about the profession, and it's more up to the employer to guarantee that than an instructing body imo. I agree that some level 1s I've seen are absolutely shocking, but hopefully they won't get a job.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DaveC, I agree that a progression is needed, but I think the technical ability of a L1 is way too low to be able to call yourself a "ski instructor". I think L2 is perfectly achievable as an entry level.
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beanie1, I guess it depends what you mean by 'Standard'. Based on S, E, L I've seen a few L2's make very questionable judgements on 'S'. Obviously this is one of the driving factors behind the requirement for shadowing hours.
But maybe you mean their 'technical' level ?
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You know it makes sense.
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david@mediacopy, yes I'm talking about technical level. Judgements on safety come through basic common sense, and experience. Before L1 was introduced BASI instructors would have had 3 weeks training, and 70 hours shadowing before being let loose on their own, now it's 1 week and 35 hours. I know in theory L1 instructors will only be teaching on artificial slopes, but there are quite a few of them working in the Alps. Again, I know that's down to the employer, but they are calling themselves a BASI instructor, and it does nothing for the organisation's reputation. I've experienced this first hand.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've a few friends have CSIA II who say that the jump to III is immense. I'd agree though that 2 is too attainable, 1? blinkin' joke. I once chatted to a girl at LL on the "Academy" course who was new to skiing via that course but expected to be issued her L I pretty much without argument. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Alexandra, the jump from L1 to L2 is pretty big too. To get your L2 you need to have some decent ski experience under your belt, or be naturally talented. L1 is basic parallel, and you can go from beginner to L1 instructor in the timeframe of a gap year course... L2 I think is pitched about right as an entry level, in that it is achievable by experienced skiers without having to take seasons out to train - therefore you can make a career change before you have to quit the day job as it were! But the technical level (on piste anyway) is still high enough that most holiday skiers will respect it, and challenging enough that it's far from a given that an experienced skier will pass it without training.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ricklovesthepowder, You've already been given a lot of info about what's required in terms of courses and exams, and can now see that it takes a long time and a big financial committment to get to the top. When I passed my Grade 1 (now called L4) the pass rate was approx 25% BTW.
However, what no-one has said is that if you just want to ski more, then you're better off working in a bar or hotel or skishop. Ski teachers don't get to ski much. If, on the other hand, you really want to teach people to ski then that's great, and it can be a great life, albeit without much int he way of financial security. Looking, for instance, at the current situation; the bu**ers who caused it are now back on their monster salaries and their monster bonuses while most professional ski teachers I know are stressing about losing their homes.
In France nearly all ski teachers are self-employed, as (I believe) is the case in Switzerland, so the risk is ours. It's worth it, but you do have to consider this factor when making your decision.
If you decide to go for it, you won't have a better life doing anything else, but if you want security and a decent income, then you should think again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, Yep, working in the Alps on an L1 isn't a good look.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I am sure it happens but BASI L1's shouldnt be working in a mountain environment, if they have a problem their BASI liability cover would not cover them... I think the level is okay for teaching artificial. now Club Instructors is another thing
also is a good earner for basi and the slopes get load of free labour for their 35 hours..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| DaveC, those are ISIA requirements, not BASI requrements. (exc. L4 which as pointed out has many fewer modules than l3). Any organistation without as least as many training hours as BASI has for L3, is not meeting the requirements to award the ISIA stamp. |
The Austrian landeslehrer is MUCH simpler than BASI, and is still ISIA. Ten days training/assesment for landes 1, one week alpine course (offpiste schizzle), ten days training assesment for landes 2. Intense lectures in the evening to cover the other stuff though (same for the Anwarter).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I did my CSIA Levels 1 & 2 in one season based at Kicking Horse, BC on an intensive programme (I was running the company offering ski & snowboard instructor training programmes and did the training and sat the exams to see if it was achievable).
CSIA Level 1 is achievable by a good recreational skier (black piste) who is able to teach and who is prepared to and able to change their skiing to the Canadian style in the 3 day course.
CSIA Level 2 is a big jump over Level 1 but achievable if you work hard on an intensive programme or spend the season instructing.
I sat the CSIA Level 3 exam the following season (2003) and failed both the teaching and skiing components with a 5.5 average (6 was the pass).
I wasn't alone. A Level 2 comparable BASI and Swiss cert failed and so did an Austrian ISIA cert. The pass rate was about 1/3.
With CSIA Level 2 I have been able to instruct in Canada, USA and Japan. In all three countries I've earned more than enough each season to pay the bills, and go on an end of season road trip. Maybe the base pay scale is higher in these three countries compared with Europe.
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beanie1, I agree that L1 in just about every system is too low a level to warrant the title ski instructor on a mountain but in a dome or on dry I think it's ok. Certainly the artificial slopes wouldn't want to have tell their customers that the vast majority of their lessons were being delivered by assistant or trainee instructors.
skimottaret, as you say BASI don't intend L1s to work on mountains and presumably would rather they didn't but ultimately it's up to local laws and ski schools who gets employed as long as they've not been misled as to what the qualification represents and have contingencies in position to cover their liability
clarky999, I'm sure I was told LS2 required passing a timed GS of some kind
Mike Pow, as beanie1 said BASI L2 is quite achievable without ever having done a season, and from what I've seen/heard/read so should be CSIA II. Very interesting to hear you've been able to make a living with the II! I think that's very difficult (though by no means impossible) to achieve in Europe with a L2. Were you just doing normal in-resort beginners/learners instructing, and what were the average US$, Can$, Yen rates of pay? Did tips form a big part of your income?
An unpopular view amongst instructors I know, but embarking on ski instructor training is one of the best ways I know of improving personal skiing performance.
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slikedges, I'm not sure a whole season is needed for CSIA II - I've been told I should/could sit the exams with just a 3-day "what to say" course.
As for making money, great for Mike Pow, but I know a CSIA III at Kicking Horse whose boots/gloves are more duct tape than fabric.  That's OK when you're 20, but this person isn't!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges, It does, as part of the Landes 2 ten day course from what I understand (my mates just done it and passed). It's not the eurotest though, guess it's just easier times required?
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| Quote: |
I know a CSIA III at Kicking Horse whose boots/gloves are more duct tape than fabric. Sad That's OK when you're 20, but this person isn't!
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I've never got the impression that ski instructors I've met are doing more than earning a fairly modest living (though I've never been to North America where charges seem sky high in comparison to europe). The two I use mostly in our area of France work in summer as a builder and a motor cycle instructor. they're in demand and often work 6 or 7 days a week in the season but given what the ski school charges (2 hours will cost from 54 euros low season to 79 for the few peak weeks, for next season) they're hardly making a killing once the ski school get their share, and they pay tax, insurance, make pension provision, etc.
any holidays are unpaid and I guess that if they're out of action from injury it's a problem.
What is your motivation for wanting to be an instructor, rick?
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