 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As the heli guy said heliski is a tiny part of their work but comes at a time where other activities are shutdown.
Given how much the swiss use heli's i dont personally think heli ski has any impact at all other than in the minds of the environmentalists.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You can always rely on the BBC for a 'we're all doomed' climate change story.
Banning milk cows would be a much better move for Switzerland.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| bar shaker wrote: |
You can always rely on the BBC for a 'we're all doomed' climate change story.
Banning milk cows would be a much better move for Switzerland. |
It is big issue in Switzerland & I think the BBC is doing the job it was created for to Report !!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How is it being reported in the Netherlands stanton, ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Isn't the issue as much about noise as about emissions? It does seem to me that it disturbs a lot of people for the pleasure of relatively few.
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firebug, an argument based solely on "it disturbs the peace of walkers" is flimsy at best, considering the revenue and jobs it brings. If the helicopter was hovering over the walkers for hours on end then I'd agree it's an issue, but having one fly past every now and then shouldn't make any difference to their enjoyment of the hills. How did the walkers get to the mountains int he first place? Solar powered car?
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Dr John, it's not every now and then though, especially in the Valais where it is restricted, you can expect up to 10 an hour.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Swirly, fair point. I'm still very much against banning things outright though, especially where there's a whiff of NIMBYism about it.
BTW, 10 per hour sounds like quite a few paying customers, how much revenue does heliskiing bring in compared with hill walkers during the winter?
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| Dr John wrote: |
Swirly, fair point. I'm still very much against banning things outright though, especially where there's a whiff of NIMBYism about it.
BTW, 10 per hour sounds like quite a few paying customers, how much revenue does heliskiing bring in compared with hill walkers during the winter? |
That's why it's a "flurry" there.
It's a benefit to some at the expense of others.
The locals gets to decide whether they like the revenue more than the peace and quiet. 
For example, many Chinese labor decided they want the benefit of income at the expense of a few polluted streams. And we in the west critisize them for being so short-sighted.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In Chamonix it's noisy enough with the rescue & working helis, which are necessary - I can understand that parts of Switzerland might feel a bit lacking in Alpine tranquillity for everyone once you've added heli-skiing into the equation, especially as it's a densely populated area compared to, say, Alaska or Kamchatka.
It reminds me a bit of the situation in Sedona, Arizona, where there are the most amazing walking and cycling trails, in beautiful landscapes, but the peace is shattered every 30 minutes of so by off road drivers & quad bikes - you can hear them for miles around. :/
It's banned in France & Italy (as it's too much disturbance) so I don't doubt it's an overall money-spinner as it's the main place in the Alps to do it. ( Via some loopholes, there are a few places in Italy, I think, and of course due to the position of the borders, it's done quite regularly from Switzerland to ski down into France).
Still, Switzerland's tranquillity is one of it's big appeals as a tourist destination so it will be interesting to see if there might a least be a limit put on heli-drops.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 4-05-10 17:23; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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firebug, The argument seems a little twisted to me. If it's local residents complaining then I have some sympathy, if it's visiting ramblers then they I don't. Locals will have to make their decision based on balancing lifestyle and profits as previously mentioned, and it's their land so it's up to them. It's the walkers thing I'm confused about, seeing as skiing takes place in winter and walking takes place in summer, I'm not sure how strong the walkers argument is.
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My understanding ( and from what I've seen) is that heli-skiing is big in spring, which is also when the walking season starts - and not just walkers - summer tourism in general. The current news piece is that the protests are from Swiss environmental groups rather than visitors though of course it may be both. I would imagine many of these are local residents - certainly there are many environmental groups based in the French alps, it may well be the same in Switzerland.
As everyone says, there's a balance to be found, no doubt. I'd be interested to hear more from people in Switzerland about it.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'd be quite interested to hear how the Swiss chose their designated heli-drops. The ones I know of (Pigne d'Arolla, Rosablanche, Trient and Petit Combin (actually not sure how accessible teh last one is but the rest are))are quite easily accessible to skiers which is probably the right way to do it - the difficult to access peaks stay the reserve of the committed and the skilled.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I read that only 4% of the heli traffic in Switzerland is heliskiers. And there's only about 5 places where drops are authorized. Sounds like right on environmentalists trying to stop people having fun. Take the argument further and you need to get rid of ski lifts, artificial snow etc, etc. Live and let live.
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Poster: A snowHead
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BobinCH, i expect that there is much more heli traffic stocking up huts for ski tourers than heli skiing. but each drop probably benefits more people when they are stocking up the hut...
oh well, i have never found helis to be too much of an annoyance in the alps. i'm really glad you don't get many snow mobiles though. the noise does my head in!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, the Swiss use helis for lots of things including construction, removing dead/overhanging trees (regularly doing that around our way)to stocking the huts and for rescue services. Most of the heli drops are around the areas I ski and I've hardly noticed them. Ski tourers and hikers need them in order to get their dinner and bottle of wine in the huts. But understood it was the "environmentalist" complaining not the hikers or ski tourers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Most of the heli drops are around the areas I ski and I've hardly noticed them. Ski tourers and hikers need them in order to get their dinner and bottle of wine in the huts.
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That's interesting. Some of the US hut system (not as wide spread as in the Alps) are stocked primarily with human power! The "hut master(s)" go up and down with big packs on their back to stock up the hut daily. Though they do use heli to carry things like propane and other bulky/dangeous goods once or twice a year.
"Work helis" are overall more environmentally friendly than, say having to cut a wide trail for a ground based transport just to drop a couple of electric poles. It's not quite the same in heli skiing, which comes IN ADDITION to all the lift tower and clear trails...
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Dr John, me neither, some friends went heliskiing and it looked amazing, they also got guided by the then world speed skiing champ. I'd have been really jealous but we had an epic day on Mt Fort N face and the Bec des Rosses so it didn't really matter. I guess the 10/hour is only one or two choppers rotating a few groups. TBH it only lasts for a couple of hours also I'd be really miffed if I paid for a heli drop and ended up riding down the Rosablanche to Siviez: it's pretty much flat for 80% of the run.
Arno, Petit Combin is doable in 2 days with a pretty big second day. We were going to try it but Remy told BobinCH that there wasn't much point as if the weather was good enough to go up it would be tracked out by heliskiers. That said it does look like there might be a more interesting way down than the trade route. Also you're exposed to seracs for a while on the climb so there could be a brown trouser moment. On the Rosablanche it's quite common/easy to beat the first heli up which gives you a nice smug feeling, must be easy as gorilla and I managed it without much trouble.
abc, I don't know about the US huts but some of the Swiss ones which aren't the least accessible will sleep 120 people and be 1000m+ of climbing from the nearest town.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Colin B wrote: |
| How is it being reported in the Netherlands stanton, ? |
Its not news as far I can see yet !
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Where I live there is no problem with heliskiing as it is done in areas that have little or no other users. But we do have problems close to the towns with the noise from helicopters from all the sightseeing and other tourist flights. In my local community (just outside Queenstown NZ) we are fighting against a proposal to use a helipad for twenty plus flights per day and this is right beside a restaurant and residential area. Lots of noise affecting lots of people just to maximise one companies profit.
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FAQ
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The same trail would take me 5-6 hrs, with just overnight cloths! 