How long does it normally take to teach 5 year old to ski?

brian

I should've said, he's 5 in these pics and by the end of the week was skiing the L2A glacier blues unaided:

A snowHead

brian, Thanks Brian, I was only thinking of the one. In one of the above it clearly shows that his traverse wasn't, and that I was holding him on line fairly strongly. All photos show him standing well and ploughing etc, so I think it's a case of a person not being able to do it, so therefore slagging it.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Sorry but I'm with DaveC, on this one.

Really don't see the benefits, just because the kid was going down the glacier in a week still doesn't mean reins/sticks from behind is the best way of teaching them.

Obviously I am a parent and so may be an incompetant skier.........but Dave C isn't!! We have found his technique, skiing backwards with pole across us to be more effective in the early days.

Haven't been anywhere where a kids ski school would recommend reins as a learning technique, and TBH i'd be fairly annoyed if they did. This has included lessons in:

France
England (club teachers at snowdome)
Canada (loads of places, LL, Nakiska, Fernie, Panorama, Silver Star, Kicking Horse etc)

I'm with Dave, leashing or reining a child isn't the best way to teach control (when applied to wlaking or skiing)

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easiski, I don't even comprehend why you'd want to leash if the kid is capable of slowing themselves down, unless you really do *have* to get them somewhere - but it's such a 1 on 1 activity I'd still never rein a kid from behind. Doesn't seem to have any actual benefit. In fact, the only reason I can think of actually doing it is to placate really stroppy parents who get upset their kid isn't "skiing" yet, which I've heard of but isn't exactly ideal for learning.

The only time I have any interest or sympathy with leashes is when it's kept slack so there's an "emergency brake", which is quite useful when parents that aren't so confident on skis want to take out their kids.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

If you read my post about the glacier .... you can't always find gentle slopes to teach on ... When the slope you NEED to use (ie: there isn't another) is too steep then you find another way to teach. Unless, of course you're not open to all possibilities.

Of course I don't ALWAYS use reins, in winter it's not normally necessary, but, for instance, last winter I had a little girl who was very scared and it gave her confidence, by the end of the week she was gagging to ski, but without the sticks she would have refused altogether. Her 3 friends and siblings got on just fine. Using the sticks you can keep the group together and still play games for the others. You can give the kid a running commentary, either confidence boosting or input, as you are very close to them.

gryphea, DaveC, is not yet fully qualified, whereas I am ISTD and have been teaching for 35 years, as I said - you should use whatever method works in whatever your situation. Just because someone is not able to do it successfully, not does mean it's a bad idea. It's easy to take pot shots from the POV of perfect slopes for learning. Try working on Cairngorm with beginners - try teaching 5yo beginners on the glacier in summer. Think outside the box!

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and anyone who might be tempted to think that easiski, is too "soft" with her pupils and gives them too easy a time ought to think again. Twisted Evil

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easiski, You seem desperate to point out how wrong I am while totally ignoring what I'm saying. Assisting control in the same manner is possible in all sorts of ways without leashing - regardless of where you are, what the terrain is, etc. You can keep telling me how I should "think outside of the box" (which is ironic, since reins/leashes must be the oldest cliche way of getting a kid to "ski"), and extolling it's virtues - why not at least discuss? I'm always trying to learn from people with more experience. I've never had another instructor say "no, you're wrong, shut up, I'm an ISTD" until now. What benefit does it have over, say, letting them snowplow inside your skis, letting them hold on to a pole in front of them (that isn't weight bearing), or letting them ski unrestricted with you directly in front of them to catch if too much speed builds up? I'm sure there's a few more routes to help a struggling

fwiw, gryphea is sticking up for me because she's seen me teach a few times, and has seen first hand how much time I've spent with the 3-4 year old age. She's seen me teaching throughout my rookie and second season, and is entirely aware of my experience.

After all it is free

DaveC, L2A glacier isn't an ideal beginner environment - multiple the number of people bombing the Mangy Moose beginner area at Fernie by a high number and add a pitch more like Bear in a number of places.

fatbob, I've rescued more than a few kids off the Bear itself in Fernie (the world's least appropriate blue) and I didn't pick them up, or tie anything around their waist ... and that was awkward child recovery, rather than trying to actually teach them anything valuable. I've had the occasional crisis of confidence from my weekend wee's club of 4-6 year olds too in various hairy areas (by the end of the season they were all easily capable of the majority of the groomed upper mountain, but stuff like Cascade has caused the odd wobbler). I just wanted to know why it's better than the alternatives rather than how unqualified I am to question an ISTD.

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DaveC, fairynuff I think you're probably not that far apart, horses for courses and all that. Personally I cringe when I see parents leash braking and steering their kids all over the mountain but I've seen plenty of people do it with slack leashes on appropriate runs i.e. emergency measure or occasional prompt and that seems to work ok. I think I'd be happy to let you or Charlotte loose on a child of mine.

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How do kids cope with the lifts at LDA in the summer, there is the funi but also lots of t-bars which must be difficult with 5 year olds. What slopes are skiable? Surely at 7.30am the snow is rock hard for skiing?

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davidof,

I guess my thoughts are that the runs/crowds/snow conditions don't sound suitable for such little beginners and therein lies the problem..................

brian

davidof, they have a small portable trainer tow they can put on a total beginner style flat bit but it's not always out (despite easiski's exhortations to the lift company). Other than that, if you're there early enough in the season there are the two chairlifts down towards Signal.

The snow is indeed usually rock hard at 7.30am unless you're lucky enough to get a few cm of fresh or unlucky enough to be there in a heatwave. The best conditions are typically around 9-11. When we took the kids there we would typically head up to be on the glacier round about 9.30 which gives plenty of time for a couple of hours skiing, probably enough for most wee kids.

gryphea, in our case (autistic child, not the one in the pics), we really weren't sure if skiing was going to be viable at all, so this was a good chance to introduce it on a holiday where it really didn't matter if we had to throw the towel in after day 1. However, having sampled it, while I agree that it might not be ideal for making the transition from flat nursery slope to first lift served skiing, it does have a lot going for it as a family holiday. It's more like a family activity holiday in the mountains with skiing available than an out and out ski holiday. Getting that quality of 1:1 instruction at such good value prices was a definite bonus.

You know it makes sense.

leashes can work but i would say as a tool to help get over a physical/mental problem, or as easyski said if the only terrain you have to work with is too difficult. unless there is a known disability and decent terrain was available 'm not sure I would start off with leashes.. that said i have little experience with this and only a weeks training course and a week real world with teaching disabled kids, who all to a person where desperate to get out of leashes!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

As mentioned by a few other people, it does depend on the kid in question, but having a good instructor definitely helps. Some 5 year olds can progress onto green runs within a few hours, some take much much longer! I have never been a fan of the use of 'harnesses' as they simply encourage the child relying on the parent to control their speed. Just stick with some lessons (preferably private ones) and improvements will come with time Smile

A snowHead

DaveC, You categorically told me I shouldn't be doing it, and I'm sorry but I wonder how many years you've been trying various things, how many teachers from different countries you've watched, I don't recognise your right to tell me that I'm doing my job which is my passion and my life badly! My results over the years clearly show the opposite. I teach a lot of kids through recommendations on Mumsnet, and most of the kids I teach come back year on year until they're skiing LG etc!

Why does a leash work better than what you mentioned?
In between legs - firstly that wrecks your back, and secondly I find that kids invariably fall or lean onto you if you're holding them.
Pole in front of kid - this works fine a lot of the time, but is difficult on relatively steep traverses where I find that the child again has a tendency to lean onto the pole rather than stand up on their own.
skiing backwards - works fine on gentle slopes (I do a lot of it), but where the child might end up going straight down something too steep to straightline in a plough you might not be able to get into their line in time to stop them flying off.
child behind and running into you - again good and fine on gentle slopes, but for the same reasons not ideal for steeper slopes.
With a leash you can stand upright (important); you can, if necessary, control the child's speed; you can keep the child on a traverse on steeper slopes; you can make sure the child turns where you want them to (important on busy pistes), and assist if the turn doesn't come off; you can talk to the child constantly as I previously mentioned. Constant coaching feedback is one of the things I do a lot of.

Occasions when it's useful Slopes that are too steep to snowplough down; kids with huge confidence problems; rescuing children who end up where they shouldn't be, but allowing them to ski down themselves, thereby giving them confidence. Any disability that limits the ability of the child to carry out line instructions; to help any child that isn't able to snowplough. Many small kids can stand up fine, turn fine, but not snowplough effectively. With a leash system they can learn to control their speed by line rather than by snowploughing.

BTW the enormous backward leaning 'emergency snowplough' is often a kid's reaction to being skied too steep or too fast (often but not always by the parents). This is a disaster because it takes years to get them out of it once they get used to it. How much better to spend a day or two on the leash (if necessary) and learn to turn and traverse.

gryphea, davidoff There is an ideal nursery area for starting which is very flat with a little rope tow. This is now open all season .Then there is a flat area at the bottom half of Dome Sud with a T bar, but you have to get down the top half of Dome Sud to get there. It's too far for small children to walk (I often ask adult beginners to do this but it takes ages), so it's much easier to ski them down. They can then practise on this bit but getting back to the funi is hard work, so it's better to carry on down. This can be done for most of the way by 2 long traverses, but you do have to negotiate the last and steeper bit.

At the start of the season we have Roche Mantel and Signal running, Roche Mantel is nice and easy, but the chairlift has no footrests and is very high. I'm always reluctant to take small children on it unless I'm sure that they won't wriggle, and unless there's only one child I have to hold onto.

I actually think it's great for kids to start in the summer, as Brian says, it's not the end of the world if they hate it because there's so much else to do. It's warm, so they're not cold and miserable. You can take buckets and spades up and make snowcastles at the nursery slope. They love the train and the cable car. It's much cheaper than winter! You can camp! kids generally love camping!

A snowHead

brian, easiski,

I do now see that a couple of hours skiing in the summer is a nice holiday and a good way to start gently without over doing it all................

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

easiski, re-read the thread - I can't find where I catagorically told you anything, I just expressed my point of view (maybe a bit excessively, but hey, I really really hate leashes) which I'm open and happy to be disagreed with. Unsuprisingly, I wasn't happy when you replied with pretty condesending "don't just follow the herd" stuff, and my tone may of been a bit rude, but I'm pretty sure it's a tone you set.

Anyway, since this thread's clearly just caused you grief I won't persue the debate, thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts.

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How long does it normally take to teach 5 year old to ski?
I always think the first 15 years are the hardest! Smile

Seriously:-
All children are different. I think "Learning to ski" is an adult concept and is a big unknown quantity to a child. However children are experts in learning how to function in a world of new experiences.
Also, a day is a long time in a child's life.
I asked my friend's five year-old how she'd got on in her first day lessons at Cairngorm.
She said slowly, making allowances for my adult person stupidity no doubt "well...Do you mean in the morning - when I was a beginner, or in the afternoon when I could do it?"
In the child's world
I put myself in the mind of the child sometimes.
They see the environment that is open to them as a play area.
It is the job of the teacher to set the stage for the children to play safely.
The skis just help them get from one playspot to the next. Quite often at infant level they can't wait to get the skis off so they can roll in the snow.
They mainly learn from eachother - not from the instructor, who tells the stories and lets the play happen.
If during the play, they can pick up the basics as they go, then great.
Safety in the USA
Your story was from Tahoe. I have been to Heavenly Valley - Lake Tahoe and the lifties were so safety paranoid, there was literally 4 people to help even expert adults sit down safely on the chairlift and give advice on how to put the safety-bar down. Then, when I was skiing down the piste and overtook some people very safely at medium speed, having slowed right down; Ten yards to spare; At the next bend the police stopped me and warned me for skiing fast.
They wouldn't let 5 yo kids on a chairlift unaccompanied, and maybe that's the reason your child hadn't got to mastering the resort uplift system in the "Two Full Days" you had allocated.
Good Luck on your next ski.
SP

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Our two started aged 8 and 5. By the end of week one they were both happy on greens and blues and some reds (after 25 hours 1 2 1 tuition.) Week 2 and 3 no tuition but loads of mileage. Week 4 was back to ski school. They both got promoted into adult ski school at the end of day one, then level 3 adult intermediate at the end of day two. I didn't think much of it until on the last day of week 5, our youngest decided to ski backwards down a black, perfectly in control and discussing at what age she might be allowed to sing on X factor. It looked so easy I gave it a go (no not x factor.) I managed about 3 feet on skis and then about what seemed like 300 miles on my a4se. She laughed a lot and then explained that if you had to think about it you probably couldn't do it. Up to this time, I haven't found any way to divorce your kids :grrr:

Help!!

How long does it normally take to teach 5 year old to ski?

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