 Poster: A snowHead
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Not snow-related, but jules in his infinite wisdom following his broken neck last year decided to go climbing last summer. Nothing strenuous or even particularly high, but he is hooked after only one day, and wants to do it again this year. He borrowed the stuff last time, but will need to start buying his own. What is the minimum kit he will need, apart from a harness and shoes. I have been allocated the task of looking for these on ebay.
I am tempted to join him, but will probably wimp out, as I am just an unfit small person. He will have someone else to climb with while I sit at the bottom with a picnic and a bottle of wine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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depends if he will be top-roping or leading
as a beginner, climbing with someone with some experience (and presumably a suitable rack of gear and rope(s)), he could probably get away with a couple of screwgate carabiners and a belay device. none of these are very expensive so i'd be inclined to buy them new
dare i say it but a helmet would be a good idea (!) - a ski helmet wouldn't be a good substitute
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arno, don't mention the H word. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Helen Beaumont, I'm not convinced I would be looking to eBay for this sort of thing...
Quechua/Decathlon had lots of it at good enough prices...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, then a trip to Grenoble Decathlon might be on the cards on our next trip out. We don't have one near enough to us in the UK to make it worthwhile making a special trip.
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Many would advocate NEVER buy second hand climbing gear 'cos you don't know what's happened to it and I'm inclined to agree.
If he's seconding then I'd suggest a belay device (I like the Petzl Reverso), an HMS carabiner, a couple of screwgates, a sling or two, a proddler - and one of those helmetty type things.
Decathlon is definitely a good place to start.
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altis, cheers, guy he climbed with last year suggested looking on ebay, but I don't really want to spend another week visiting him in the neuro ward at CHU Grenoble.
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Chalk bag, the rest can depend on the type of climbing, if Trad and seconding - a nut key
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helen Beaumont, don't buy second hand kit. With the exception of climbing boots and chalk, it's all designed to save your life. Just buy it new.
When I started out climbing, I climbed with some friends who were more experienced and had the gear. It's a really good way to learn, so are the courses offered by place like Plas y Brenin.
Take a look at Via Ferrata. For a beginner, there's some great places to go in the Alps. Some experience and equipment is necessary but not as much as climbing.
Have fun.
Kersh
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Do you have an indoor climbing wall near you? Good way to see if climbing really is for you and you don't need much kit. You can hire it when you arrive. You need to learn the basics of belaying and tying a figure of eight knot. We are lucky in Manchester to have the MCC in town and and another great indoor wall in Stockport. Great places to go if the weather is bad. You should try it too. Most of the women I see climb are much better than men. They rely on balance rather than brute strength.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I prefer a basic design all round belay device like the ATC (although I now use the new XP version as I now climb on 8.5mm ropes for trad leading http://www.outdoorkit.co.uk/product.php?product_id=5420 and for abbing this offers two levels of friction - handy for abbing on thin iced up ropes or for belaying a heavy climbing partner). Under 16 quid and couple with a decent locking krab.
I made my first chalk bag out of the leg of a pair of jeans, some electrical cable and a piece of sheepskin. Instead of buying expensive chalk balls just save old cotton socks and fill them from chalk blocks.
I am selling a pair of almost unused climbing shoes at about size 7 to 8 but if you go to the climbing uk forum there are plenty of items for sale. I use some second hand trad gear but never ropes or slings.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 21-04-10 0:04; edited 1 time in total
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For seconding outdoors a couple of spectra slings (lighter and thinner than nylon) with locking krabs. The belay krab has a rounded profile and is specialised to allow smooth rope control... the angled krabs for sling use force the rope into a sharper radius and are not really suitable for belay devices especially with double ropes.
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh... and if you want a day out in North Wales just give me a bell. Bolts or trad on the doorstep.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Scarpa, will speak to you in VT hopefully. 7-8 shoes far too small unfortunately.
josh.dynevor, we've got several good climbing walls, and a bouldering centre. Kersh, there's a few Via Ferrata in Serre Chevalier too, may give them a go as well, but I think julesb might be hooked on the more vertical stuff.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Helen Beaumont, pretty much what everyone else has said.
Harness: go to a shop, try a few on. They should have a rope set up so you can hang in it to make sure it's comfy then.
Shoes: fitting them can be a pain (literally), especially if not used to them. Should be tight but not cripplingly so.
Belay device with HMS krab: personal choice, one of the variable friction ones e.g. ATC-XP. HMS krab is best for belaying off due to size/shape.
Chalk bag: cheap is fine just make sure your hand fits in. I use a mix of chalkball and loose chalk but be aware that some walls won't let you use loose chalk or even balls.
Helmet: climbing went through what skiing is seeing now re helmet use about 6-10 years ago. Personal choice (I wear one ~90% of the time having never worn one when I started) and the type depends on what you're doing, a mte of mine wrote a guide for our then uni club here: http://climbliverpool.co.uk/kitguide.php some of it's a bit dated but the helmet bit is good info. Don't need one indoors IMO as there won't be falling rock, people dropping stuff and you won't be hitting the ground and/or sticking out bits of rock when you fall.
The rest depends what you're doing: lots of bouldering you'll want a crash pad, Alpkit make decent cheapish ones otherwise you're looking at quite a bit of cash. If climbing big cliffs then most people appreciate you having a couple of extra slings and krabs for clipping into belays with after each pitch.
The rest of the kit: rack, ropes etc., I guess will be owned by whoever he goes climbing with, if you end up getting that stuff eventually it's nice to have had some experience using someone elses kit first as that gives you an idea of what to get.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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josh.dynevor, I can do the belaying, and think I can remember the eight knot. There are a few indorr walls around here and I have alreasdy been invited to join someone on Tuesday evenings. I habve been looking at shoes on the net.
See! I'm not toally non pro-active.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JulesB, glad to hear it, now get the washing in off the line and get the packing done. We've an EOSB to attend.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I do howver appear to have serious spelling issues today
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kersh, There is a place you can Via Ferrata in the Lake District too - I was given a flyer when I went to the Outdoors show
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My dad did this at the weekend as part of a stag do. He loved it, for an old fella who doesn't like heights this is impressive.
Buying climbing gear is far simpler than skiing equipment, fortunately. For the most part it's relatively inexpensive, the more expensive stuff you don't want to go cheap on anyway.
Jules, I see that you have already been invited to join someone which is the best start. You really only need the basics when you start, a helmet & shoes. If the people you are climbing with are kind enough to take you straight in to multi-pitch stuff then you would need a belay device, a caribiner or two and a sling or two - but be warned - I don't think you should be climbing with the sorts or people that are happy to take a complete novice in to this environment - you want to be the first few sessions to be in a more controlled fashion so down the gym or a local crag where you can do single pitch seconding / top roping.
Climbing partners is really what this comes down to, you won't need to buy all this gear until you are climbing "on your own", maybe Helen will be happy just to belay you all the time. Like any activity to improve you need to be out doing it with people who are more experienced than you, and they will have the gear that you can start with.
After that you should be aiming to amass gear over the rest of your climbing career. A new rope every few years, a load of tat for abseiling and top roping, a sport rack and maybe a trad rack. You've started in the right place though, by involving Helen in the process she's not going to turn around and start to complain that you have a wardrobe full of bizarre, and sometimes damp & smelly, "s & m" equipment.
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parlor, it's not going anyway near the wardrobe 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helen Beaumont, if you /are/ doomed to be a belay slave, better invest in warmies and a helmet for yourself now. 
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I don't think you should be climbing with the sorts or people that are happy to take a complete novice in to this environment
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balls, there's absolutely no reason not to take someone on a multipitch route as their first time climbing especially if they can already belay. Otherwise you could climb as a three with two experienced climbers. This is an attitude which has become more prevalent in British climbing recently for no good reason, for a start long easy routes are fun whereas if you're cragging at low grades it can sometimes seem a bit pointless, secondly the risks are the same if the route is 10m long or 200m long, climbing in the UK is, for the most part, not like the Alps where a big route can take all day or longer; finally climbing a big route on a mountain gives a better all round experience than queuing for a 12m crack climb at Stanage.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Swirly, umm sure?
Assumption 1: They can already belay. Cool, Jules went climbing for a day and got in to it. Chances of belaying a lead climber on day one?
Of course there are some very easy & mild multi-pitch routes that make this easier but still, it makes *you* (the climber, taking the novice along with you) an idiot. Belaying a lead climber from a hanging belay is not the most natural thing in the world.
I've done a fair amount of climbing in the UK, the Alps & a few routes in Canada. During that time I've met & climbed with loads of people that I would NOT WANT to be belaying me while I was lead climbing.
Assumption 2: Risks are the same for a 10m route & a 200m route? Sorry, do you multi-pitch up 10m routes or do you have a 400m rope? How can they be the same? You may be comfortable in a hanging belay but I suspect most 'climbed one day climbers' might want to get a little more used to the ropes, equipment & surroundings first.
Assumption 3: "Cragging at low grades can sometimes be a bit pointless" - really for someone looking to do their second DAY of rock climbing.
Maybe we should just call you Sharmaswirly.
Each to their own, I hope you never deck out because you've taken a gaper up an epic route for their first taste of the rock climbing.
(FWIW, I'm all for getting people out climbing and have enjoyed taking loads of people both to the gym and to local crags for a few hours of fun. I also own a Gri-Gri for that exact reason.)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Maybe we should just call you Sharmaswirly.
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Hardly, I suck.
But yes I have taken beginners on multipitch routes straight off, part of it involves choosing things I'm very unlikely to fall off. In all the time I've spent climbing I've used a (semi) hanging belay once and that was because I'd gone past the ledge and didn't want to reverse the last moves, with the exception of the big sea cliffs (Gogarth etc.) I can't think of anywhere in the UK you'd be using a hanging belay. Also if you fall off a big route and your belayer does have a slight problem you're unlikely to deck compared to on a sort route. If you don't trust your belayer does it matter how big the route is: they mess up it's still going to end up in a big fall, hence you could climb as a 3 with someone else experienced: doesn't take any more time on long routes as both seconds can climb at the same time.
WRT cragging at low grades, the majority of easy routes (say S and below) follow manky drainage lines, invariably chimney systems which aren't really climbing as most people think of it. Compare http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=141427 to http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=111587 ones a fun day out, the other an exercise in stretching your legs out.
I'd suggest you're putting yourself at more risk giving a gri-gri to someone that hasn't used one much than I am taking novices somewhere like Tryfan.
Edit to add: Due to my time in a climbing club I've taught a hell of a lot of people to climb over the last few years and like you say you do get some you don't trust at all but you can normally work out who they are before you even get near a rope. How do you think people used to learn how to do it? Chris Bonnington's 2nd time climbing was in the Llanberris Pass, I'm pretty sure he didn't know how to belay then as his first time was a day on Southern Sandstone.
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Megamum, altis & parlor, i've only ever done Via Ferrata in the French Alps and it was great. I'd heard about the one in the Lakes so i'll check it out. Thanks for the link!
Cheers
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You know it makes sense.
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Ok, i've checked out that website. I'm sure there's another place in the South Lakes .... anyone know it?
Cheers
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've taken plenty of people out onto multipitch very early on once they have mastered the basics. And as said above, a team of three makes a good compromise between moving fast and safety.
I also agree that I've seen a lot of experienced climbers practicing pretty shoddy belay techniques. I always like to watch someone from the sidelines before tieing into a rope with them. One additional thing... I always use a bowline for wall use, it's easy to tie (rabbit out of hole, up hill, round tree and back down hole) and unlike the fig 8 it is very easy to untie when you've fallen on it a few times.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Scarpa, I agree about the bowline (although I use a fig-8 still) we always tell people to tie in with a fig-8 as unlike the bowline it's obvious if you tie it wrong, also if it's wrong you'll most likely end up with a fig-9 which is still strong enough to climb on. Like you say though the bowline is much easier to untie after loading and good if you know what you're doing. We should really try and climb something together this summer, especially given I missed you when you were out here.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Swirly, I actually managed to get out 3 times on the bolts in Llangollen last week... I need the practice. Would love to get out during the summer. Plenty of great routes in Snowdonia and Tremadog but the Moelwyns are one of my current favs... some really enjoyable easier grade lines there with no crowds.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Scarpa, Moelwyddion sound good, I'm planning a sneak attempt on the Cuillin ridge, got the fitness from being out here but need to get some easy rock mileage under my belt ASAP, also never climbed there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Swirly, Plenty of S - VS, 3 - 4 pitch routes... Kirkus's classic is one of the best climbs I've ever done... a real smile inducer on the top two which you can run together. I can't wait to get out properly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| while I sit at the bottom with a picnic and a bottle of wine. |
Get yourself a helmet, picnicking at the bottom of crags is very risky.
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FAQ
