 Poster: A snowHead
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You watch the instructors doing it and they get along so natural looking on a flat bit of piste that its untrue.
I can do it for a while, and it seems to be going OK and then all of a sudden I lose it, and the momentum disappears. Is there a knack to this skating on skis lark, and what is more use - double pole plants with it or one after another on each side.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Inside edge of pushing ski/outside of gliding ski. Longer poles or grip on top of pole, double pole push behind. Roll gliding ski onto inside edge for new push.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fatbob, crumbs, not sure my brain could get round the complication of that (which probably explains why I'm not that brilliant at it.  )
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Ice-skating with bigger skates - and don't catch an edge else you'll look a fool! Double pole push behind as fatbob says.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Alexandra, ah. I can't ice-skate either! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've done a fair bit of skating over the years and this is one of the aspects of skiing i found easiest to pick up.
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Well I know that I'm not doing anything with the gliding ski and didn't realise there was a ski roll edge to edge involved, so that might help to explain the difficulty. Double pole plant behind Ahhhh......not to the sides.......have to try that too.
I'd love to be able to do it well, it always appears to be so much easier than shuffling along.
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need to bend the knees well, shift your weight really positively so you can get a long glide on one ski, and keep a slow rhythm, don't rush it. Definitely double pole push. But the instructors can do it without poles, and uphill, and carrying big piles of slalom poles. That needs both technique AND stamina.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Double pole, but only every "other" push of the leg.
i.e. pole when you push off the right (of left) leg only, not both.
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Megamum, it can be quite hard work, especially slightly uphill, but definitely the quickest way of moving across the flat. The techniques described above sound about right to me. However, I do find it trickier these days with fatter skis, I'm sure it was easier with the old skinny things. Although longer they just seemed to skate a bit better and it was easier to keep the skinny tails away from each other.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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queen bodecia, Do you think that was because skinny skis are likely to have been lighter. Is it harder with heavier skis?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, that's possible. I find I have to skate with my legs much further apart making a wider V shape than I'm sure I ever used to. There's either a scientific explanation or I'm just rubbish. 
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Of course, if you are on Telemark skis you can also do a classic langlauf stride on flat bits of piste! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Just skate, if you try and think about all this stuff doing something so simple your brain will melt. Push off one foot onto the next, exactly like you'd expect. Instructors are on snow day in, day out - don't worry about it. I have some pretty solid ski boot ballet skills after too much time on a magic carpet too... Seriously, if you manage to make a thread for every potential aspect of skiing you'll get so much feedback it'll sound insurmountable to put your skis on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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DaveC, exactly my point on your other thread Megamum, don't try and analyse everything in minute detail, push off one ski, glide ,push off t'other ski , glide, repeat. Pole as necessary, hands on top of poles helps.....
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Poster: A snowHead
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DaveC, Well I take your point about info overload, but skating become a technique of great validity for me to pick up after a week in Les Arcs. There was quite a length of flat, across to some of the lifts. Picked up from the end of a schuss whilst the momentum was still with me, as I said above, it would work for a while, then something would happen and it would go to pot and be difficult to pick up again. I just wondered if there was something fundamental that you had to do to make it happen and that I had never been told about.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not really - as you lose momentum it's harder to balance on the edge you're pushing off. Just spend your time on flats walking like a duck (I tell my kids to make duck feet). Quacking optional, usually helps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Megamum, push with inside edge- glide on outside edge- really- this is quite hard but not impossible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I seem to have missed this glide on outside edge thing, and think that I always glide on the bases. Am I doing it wrong?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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slikedges, Yup, I thought you did the gliding flat on the bases too.
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I found this fairly easy as I used to skate a lot.
I think I do it fairly flat as you don't want to add resistance by using too much edge. The first couple of "skates" may use the edges to push off then once moving its onto the bases.
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| Quote: |
I think I do it fairly flat
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I think so too, but as you are gliding a bit to the right, on the right ski (and vice versa) you do have to get your weight well over on top of the relevant ski - significant weight transfer is needed to avoid toppling back into the centre too quickly. So maybe it just feels as if you are on the outside edge?
I try to watch people who are doing it well and get inside their heads.
Yes, I'm sure the old skinnier skis were easier than very modern fat ones - the cross country skaters don't do it on fat skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Strangely it's one aspect of skiing that I have not been taught but can manage to achieve quite well
But I'm also quite good on ice skates as well!
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Yep, learnt to skate on skis v.easily as roller skated as kid and inline skate as adult.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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All this talk! Is there a vid that shows the "glide on the outside" part clearly???
I just glide on the base. Though I FULLY transfer my weight to the gliding ski, which at the begining feels almost like I would tip over to the outside...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I think I do it fairly flat
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I think so too, but as you are gliding a bit to the right, on the right ski (and vice versa) you do have to get your weight well over on top of the relevant ski - significant weight transfer is needed to avoid toppling back into the centre too quickly.
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You have it exactly.
In order to balance the torso (chin line) on top of the gliding ski and stand tall on the gliding leg, you -will- be on the outside edge.
The only people for whom this is not the case is people whose pelvis is narrower than their ski waist. *
Of course, if y'all don't feel like standing tall on the gliding leg, well... I reckon herringboning is good exercise if a bit slow.
*the other exception to this is ski boots loose at the ankle, along with insanely strong ankles, and we know from previous discussion that slikedges doesn't subscribe to this as a boot fitting principle. 
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=26405#618108
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 26-03-10 0:54; edited 1 time in total
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| comprex wrote: |
| In order to balance the torso (chin line) on top of the gliding ski and stand tall on the gliding leg, you -will- be on the outside edge. |
I honestly don't understand this!
To "balance the torso on top of the gliding ski" sounds to me can be done by gliding on the base...
Like I said, I'd love to see a vid. And some close-up of the gliding ski showing "what" it's gliding on.
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You know it makes sense.
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| abc wrote: |
| comprex wrote: |
| In order to balance the torso (chin line) on top of the gliding ski and stand tall on the gliding leg, you -will- be on the outside edge. |
I honestly don't understand this!
To "balance the torso on top of the gliding ski" sounds to me can be done by gliding on the base...
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Nope, can't be done with a tall leg and laterally rigid ankles unless pelvis width<ski waist.
Try to do it in shoes on carpet and you will *constantly* have to engage the muscles at the ankle you're standing on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I mastered skating while dragging 4 year old on the end of one pole this year - I think we found every flat bit in the Grand Massif! The small sections where 6 year old grabbed the other pole needed a little momentum going into them. I couldn't explain the 'technique' to you but it seemed to work 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| abc wrote: |
All this talk! Is there a vid that shows the "glide on the outside" part clearly???
I just glide on the base. Though I FULLY transfer my weight to the gliding ski, which at the begining feels almost like I would tip over to the outside... |
Yes you will find a video in our glossary under diverging skis...
Look here http://www.yourskicoach.com/YourSkiCoach/D.html
and of course it is in the DVDs
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Funnily enough I've found it significantly easier on modern fatter skis - more base width I assume.
Have to say it is an area where practice on blades has helped hugely ... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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most people cant skate for the same reason they skid a lot when skiing, the skis have to be put on their edges and you need to get your weight forward and on the balls of your feet.
Skimummy, has it right, try pulling someone, you will quickly find out how to skate... and ski....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, or skating uphill. The 1.5km skate up the nordic track coming out of Les Avals did wonders for my skating ability (although didn't improve my mood much at the end of the day).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I skid massively when skiing but find skating pretty easy - but then I did iceskating lessons for about 2 years as a kid.
It's kind of a push/glide rhythm. Just want to work out how to make skis glide in slush - skating on that isn't fun!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, yeah, spot on. MOst people I see struggling with it are demonstrating beautifully how far back their "weight" is.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| skimottaret, or skating uphill. The 1.5km skate up the nordic track coming out of Les Avals did wonders for my skating ability (although didn't improve my mood much at the end of the day). |
yup that's a good test bed, but as I can't see megamum getting there, pulling the kids around is a sure fire way to quickly learn the skills!!
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Maybe it is different to skating on skates. On skates you propel yourself forward on the inside edges. Whereas on skis its more a series of slightly looped outside turns and your weight is far more over to the side.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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it doesn't sound as though megamum's kids need much pulling around - maybe she could train them to pull her around?
Skating to music can be really good if the rhythm is right - teetering along on one ski waiting for the moment for the next push.
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abc,
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Double pole, but only every "other" push of the leg.
i.e. pole when you push off the right (of left) leg only, not both.
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Skate 3 - nothing wrong with skate 3 and its probably the easiest to do, but poling on both legs (skate 2) is just as valid, is faster but harder work.
Tips for good skating.
Get adjustable poles skating is easier with longer poles (they should reach to be between chin and nose if you were skating on xc kit). Try to get your centre of gravity over the glide ski - most people I see skating on alpine kit have their centre of gravity between the two skis. Practice on a very slight downhill to start with much easier than uphill initially.
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