 Poster: A snowHead
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Just finished a day's skiing in Snowmass of Aspen in Colorado. Had checked out Aspen Mountain, Aspen Highland and Buttermilk which I hope I could sample in the next few days.
Aspen is indeed a resort with some seriously rich and famous residents or home owners after skiing Copper Mountain, Vail and Beaver Creek. Although I haven't seen enough American resorts to make sensible comparison but I did find Aspen in the same league as
(1) Zermatt, Davos, St Moritz of Switzerland
(2) St Anton/Lech, Ischgl of Austria
(3) Cortina d'Ampezzo of Italy.
In some respect Aspen reminds me of St Moritz as both are located at places difficult to get to. Both have their own airports to facilitate those who can jet themselves in. Designer shops, luxuous goods and fur fashion dominate the shops. Outsiders will find it very hard to find a parking space. Prices of the on-resort properties shoot through the roof. The infrastructure of the resort, layout and set up give a high class feel everywhere. Naturally restaurants are exquisite both in quality and price. Accommodation cost has to be among the highest.
Snow is snow to me and so an expensive resort makes no difference to the skiing. However I do find seeing different things and enjoying the ambience are also parts of the skiing experience. To me these expensive resorts can be enjoyed by anybody who is prepared to stay in accommodation at a convenient distance away from the resort.
Wonder if there are other resorts with similar standing to the above?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That last pic is visible from outer space.
I so do not want to go to Bansko.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, out of interest where is the first photo taken?
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I found Davos to be overpriced and a fairly crappy resort. It's nowhere near the quality of many of the middle of the range French resorts. Might have been top of the tree in 1975, certainly isn't now.
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the 'Coe
proper 
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Kitz' is probably up there on a good snow season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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When was the Bansko pic taken. Will give Bansko a miss for a while untill they put in another ride up the mountain and open up more ski areas.
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(reduced size of Bansko pic)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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St Moritz and Aspen are in a league of their own.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Heavenly on the California/Nevada border
Kitzbuhel, Austria
Park City resorts (PCMR, DV, Canyons), UT
Snowbasin, UT -- the biggest and nicest looking resort you never heard of!
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World class resorts, apart from the first post ??
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You know it makes sense.
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Today I skied the Aspen Mountain and then took a bus to do a few runs in Buttermilk too.
Now when I walked up the Silver Queen gondola there was a resort worker handing out coffee which seemed to be free to me. We found no queue anywhere in Aspen Mountain even at the Silver Queen gondola. The lifts are not up to the European standard as some have no foot rest or even a restraint bar! The only safety provision was a sign requesting the users not to swing the chairs.
The bus services between the 4 unlinked resorts is top notch though. For two journeys and wife and I were the only passengers between Buttermilk and Aspen. The Aspen resorts gave me an overwhelming impression that there were more workers serving the visitors. Services are better than all the other resorts we have visited.
It is difficult to single out a world class resort and everybody has his/her own favourite. Some prefer unique features like in Zermatt one can board a train to go up the slope or ski to different train stations like in Davos. In Aspen Mountain one has a full view of the fully developed town of Aspen but some may prefer seeing the Swiss Matterhorn or Sella massif in Dolomites. There are others who find seeing a large white area of a frozen lake, like St Moritz, everytime taking a rest is breathtaking. Some skiers/boarders like their bums kept warm on heated seats anda bubble to shield from the wind and snow. However as everybody has to use a restroom some times then finding a clean, dry and well kept toilet, say to a standard even better than some international airports, is comforting.
One common denominator that I could single out in these resorts is their accommodationa are expensive which help to reduce the number of piste users. Thus
a visitor has more space, less hassle with queues and less likely to get knocked down by irresponsible fellow piste users.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I might be a lone voice in this, but does anyone else feel that the skiing in Zermatt is just a bit disappointing for a resort with a world class reputation? Obviously the village itself is lovely, the Matterhorn is breathtaking and by all accounts there are some lovely mountain restaurants. But I thought the skiing domain felt very small, probably because it is very disjointed, the lift system a bit inefficient and the skiing felt a bit 'samey' across the entire piste map. I've only skied there for one week so I didn't see all the skiing that was on offer, but I got to cruise around a large proportion of the pistes and came away with a slight notion of "is that it?".
saikee, how much are you spending on lift passes? How do you think these compare with prices in Europe?
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I don't disagree with any of that, and it's definitely a place for more lunching and concomitantly less skiing. But the whole package still casts a spell on me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar,
I have to agree most so-called world class resorts offer poor choice of skiing relative to the fully rigged and adequately linked big resorts designed to attract the mass.
Zermatt would be not muct a resort choice if its Italian Cervinia were discounted.
Some of the 5 unlinked Davos areas have only one gondola and then the rest is all drag lifts.
St Anton will be a lot less attractive had it without the unlinked Lech but it does has a steep history and had supplied some famous pioneers to some American resorts.
As for the American resorts I find their accommodation and lift pass are significantly more expensive than European equivalent while the lift facilities are poorer and older with a much smaller skiing terrain relative to the mega resorts in the Alps. I think in general for a skiing holiday, certainly for the skiers crossing the pond, American resorts represents poor value for money.
Having skied only 5 resorts in Colorado I do find the American resorts offering these advantages
(a) There are a better scope for off piste.
(b) For adrenaline challenge junkies the American resorts offer more challenging terrains of double diamond black runs some of which are even classified as extreme skiing. Relatively speaking the European resorts appear more for recreation and holiday enjoyment.
(c) There appears significantly less piste users on the American runs. Aspen has to be one of the quietest resort I skied in Feb/Mar but other resorts can have queues due to using a small number of lifts, especially during the weekends.
I still think each skiing resort has both its own attractions and unfavorable features. There must be a market for some wealthy skiers who want to ski in a lay back fashion, enjoy the mountain, have a decent lunch, get away from the crowd and don't really bother with improving one's skill or to ski every minute as long as the chairlifts are still operating.
Places like Aspen, Vail and Beaver Creek have their own TV channels. On-resort properties with an asking price around $10 millions are fairly common. I skied a run which has a property being being built almost right at the middle of it. There are also home-owner skiways, with restricted access, dotted around the piste maps. The impression I got is that there are places in USA where very expensive holiday homes are being built. To attract buyers the holiday complex developer provides many toys as attractions. One of these toys is to have the skiing facilities. One can get whacked $33 for parking a car there or pay $40 to lock up the skies and boots overnight!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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saikee, thanks.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Davos?
Cortina?
You are having a laugh.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| I might be a lone voice in this, but does anyone else feel that the skiing in Zermatt is just a bit disappointing for a resort with a world class reputation? |
You are not alone. Like you say, stunning to look at and to stay but disjointed and samey and exposed and expensive and Swiss.
The Arlberg gets my vote.
Nowhere in North America makes the list.
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Bode Swiller, Having just been to the Arlberg, I have to say it hits my 'Crap' Button. No different to other (great) destinations but loaded with Drunken Brits.
Steep & Deep -- Only The Blues ( which are the same/similar to the Reds & Blacks) ..
Hey Ho ... we are all different 
rob@rar, Foe me Zermatt views will always have a special place in my head ...
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Agenterre, you went to the wrong bit...
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red 27, I dont do off-piste ... but St. Anton, Lech, Zurs, Stuben, Sonne-whatsitcalled, White Circle etc.. all got touched... what did I miss?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Agenterre, I wonder what is on top of your list of favourites?
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The bus to Bansko.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
The bus to Bansko. |
Ho-Ho ... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tom W, I'm a very inexperienced skier but my favourites?-
- Zermatt
- 4Vallees
- 3 Valless
- Auron
- Saanenmoser
- Saalbach/Hinterglemm
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Agenterre, Lech-Zurs was "Loaded with Drunken Brits"?
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You know it makes sense.
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red 27, We stayed in St Anton ( but I would agree less likely in Zurs/Lech/St Christoph) ..... only went out 2 nights after 7 ... saw more drunken tw@s there than I would in a year on Ibiza. Sorry ... its true and invariably they were Brits.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Agenterre wrote: |
| red 27, I dont do off-piste ... but St. Anton, Lech, Zurs, Stuben, Sonne-whatsitcalled, White Circle etc.. all got touched... what did I miss? |
You've already answered it, the Arlberg has epic offpiste, most of it pretty easy to access too.
It's definitely the best area I've been too, and I can't imagine that changing anytime soon. Good lifts, pistes are fine as pistes go (especially the one down from the Schindlergratbahn), awesome offpiste, reliable snow (of a typical lighter, drier nature than most of the rest of the Alps), lots of shops catering for most needs, good non skiing activites (bowling, ice/rock climbing, etc), LOADS of bars - from epic apres at the Mooserwirt/KK's/Taps/Funky's to more chilled in Bobo's/Anton Bar/The place next to Pomodoros Pizzeria (I forget the name - the Lounge or something?!) - most places are still reasonable prices too, In Bar Cuba 4-6pm weekdays a pint is 2 euros for seasonairres and 3.50 for punters. Yeah there's lots of drinking (but it isn't jsut the Brits!!!), but you can easily find quieter nights out too, and the drinking is friendly and jolly rather than aggressive.
Ischgl and Saalbach get close, but they're not quite there. The only two places I've heard of that I think would match the Arlberg (in Europe, anyway) are Cham and Verbier - both of whitch I'm gonna have to try sooner rather than later.
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Poster: A snowHead
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clarky999, Yep.. Fair Enough! One line dismissing my observation and 4 extolling the virtues of the bars 
If I heard once (both before & when I was there) how St Anton pistes were difficult, I heard it a hundred times. Urban Marketing Myth. (IMVHO!!).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think I dismissed your observation, but if all you want to do is pound pistes, it's not the place for you. I haven't heard it said that Anton's pistes are difficult (although there are few 'easy' runs), only that it's more suited to advanced skiers - becasue it's offpiste is the jewel in it's crown.
I only wrote so much about the bars as that seemed to form the basis of your complaint against - I can wax lyrical about the offpiste too if you want!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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clarky999, Sorry I wasn't complaining about the bars ... only their clientele! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Maybe you went to the wrong places then - yes many of them are loud and exuberant (and this is what the apres is famed for in Austria as a whole, but particularly Anton) filled with drunken Brits, Scandies, Austrians, Germans, Dutchies, Paddies, etc, but there are also plenty of quiet chilled out places too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
| red 27, We stayed in St Anton ... saw more drunken tw@s there than I would in a year on Ibiza. Sorry ... its true and invariably they were Brits. |
No need to apologise - it's as I said before, you stayed in the wrong bit 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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What defines world class? Swanky restaurants, chi-chi boutiques, dogs in handbags? I'll be happy to avoid those places.
Agree with above comments that Snowbasin is the classiest place you've never heard of even if I did break my leg there!
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Chamonix is a good shout. Great mix of shops and boutiques in the town, combined with an awesome range of skiing.
Just a shame about having to bus it to every slope.
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rob@rar
Have to whole-heartedly agree. I think Zermatt is famous for the whole lifestyle that surrounds the place and not so much the skiing. Ok, they have modern lifts and countless snow makers piste-side, but the skiing in Klein Matterhorn in particular is very limited. Gornergrat & Blauherd are a touch better, but the place really lacks the variety of intermediate to advanced skiing that you find across the rest of the Alpes.
This said I get to stay there for free, so in this context I can't really complain!!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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"World Class" usually = expensive, over-hyped, crowded, over-developed. Most of the big name resorts on either side of the pond fall foul of at least 2 of the above. So it's a label I try to avoid, although I'll ski anywhere given the chance.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, out of interest where is the first photo taken? |
Big White, Interior BC Canada. It's not like that every day, only a couple of times a week. Although it's been a lean year for snow this season by their standards. Not a "World Class" resort either, just a lot of fun and a lot of nice dry powder.
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