 Poster: A snowHead
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French farmers, protesting about the presence of wolves in the Vanoise national park have blocked access to Courchevel, Val-Thorens, Tignes and Méribel with tractors. The farmers have called on the French government to kill all the wolves present in France, something which is currently banned by European law...
I wonder how Italian farmers survive with so many wolves? Maybe they own sheepdogs? Or the Spanish with several hundred bears romping around.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Should be over by now, started late morning, then early afternoon they freed up one lane of the N90 to allow cars through. Some 20 tractors were blocking the road at one point, causing pretty big tailbacks on the Chambéry side of Albertville.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Don't the locals get peeved (never mind the foreigners) with this type of action? Or is it sufficiently rare that they're not bothered?
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Not particularly - the farming community, still a powerful interest group in France, is suffering. Many people have 'paysan' relatives. On top of this there is usually a degree of respect for any protest movement or industrial action irrespective of whether you sympathise - it's ingrained into the French psyche. Within reason, of course. An example was the transport/farmer joint action blockading movements of fuel a few years ago. The French were very tolerant...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The first word at French nursery schools must be "non" Those wolves need protecting and quickly
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FRENCH BLOCKADES - I must remain calm! Otherwise, my blood pressure will elevate and invalidate my travel insurance! I observed this post yesterday, but deliberately avoided reading it. It has gotten the better of me today! It is one of the very few aspects of Frenchness, that I least admire and one that causes me severe irritation. Why penalise, disrupt and inconvenience so many people in such a selfish manner? I know the obvious answer is that they are very successful, but there are other ways of organising effective protests. The fact that these protests are allowed by the authorities is a sad reflection on France, even though it is a Socialist Republic.
When I worked in France several years ago, blockades of Calais, Le Tunnel and the A16 were almost a monthly occurance and several times prevented my returning home on leave. I got so fed up on one occasion, (mainly with the Police appearing to give tacit approval, which in turn led to more frequent and obviously more successful protests) that when the blockade was lifted and Police opened the A16, I in turn blocked two lanes of it with my Landrover to make my own, highly principled, protest, at the protest. (It was briefly very popular with a few hundred UK motorists) In the space of approximately three minutes, a policeman asked me politely to move. When I didn't he ordered me gruffly to move. When I didn't he drew his sidearm and threatened arrest. After mature reflection lasting approx. 30 seconds, I then re-evaluated my principled stance and withdrew my protest! I wasn't going to be caught running up the A16, bare breasted, waving a tricolour and shouting Liberte, etc, etc. The bottom line was that I didn't want to be arrested and spend 24 hours at M. Le President's pleasure, but I did note with irony, the speed at which the Police moved to quench my brief revolution.
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The impression I have had is that the French police act to enforce the law when it is the wish of the local people - and the mayor. Which you could argue is democratic, I suppose.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nick Zotov, I WAS a local person!!!!! Had a house near Montreuil-Sur-Mer for 15 years!
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Hang on - are French farmers actually losing livestock to these wolves? If so, how frequently? I got the impression that wolves weren't a threat to humans per se, and that if they did nick sheep/goats it occured so infrequently as to be insignficant (y'know the kind of argument - sheep are more likely to be run over by a bus than savaged by a wolf...)
What am I missing here that's winding up the French about wolves in the Vanoise national park?? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Manda, It may very well be that they are 'Non-French' wolves.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Manda, this little saga has been running for a while now, apparently the wolves were originally released in the Gran Paradisio national park in Italy, there aren't many of them, estimates of the pack size vary between 30 -50. However, being wolves national borders don't mean anything to them and they've made their way into the Vanoise national park. They are a protected species under EU law and local farmers have been pressing for a cull for some time, as well as the farming lobby, the hunting lobby is also very strong. Farmers claim that they're losing animals to the wolves, agriculture is permitted in the Vanoise. However, there are apparently only 4 breeding females in the pack and if one of them were shot, then the group's survival could be doubtful.
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David@traxvax, If my memory serves me right, I believe the last breeding female of some species, (Bear perhaps?), was shot by a hunter in the same region of the Alps, to the absolute dismay of Le President?
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You know it makes sense.
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Bernard, more than likely, the hunters around here frighten me more than the wolves. They're out in the season with high powered rifles, not shotguns, and are often pretty close to the roads.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David@traxvax, I quite agree with you! I have been in a few unsafe regions, especially the Middle East, but nothing quite matches that feeling of trepidation, even when driving along a country road, when greeted with the sight of a typical, French hunting party, in open skirmish line, bearing and firing, as you say rifles, literally, at anything that moves. Most of which have ranges of nearly 2 kilometres. I know as well that they sometimes inflict more casualties on themselves than on their prey! (By the way, I enjoyed Mougins and the Gorges du Loop)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
chance of a Vanois sheep getting run over by a (probably British TO) bus is more likely than being picked off by a wolf
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Even more likely to be sh****d to death by a randy Kiwi (see seperate thread)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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On the subject of wolves, a shepherd in Provence received a suspended two month prison sentence today for poisoning a wolf back in 1996. (He had appealed a previous one month suspended sentence).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I imagine that it is sheep losses that are the cause for concern? Most sheep losses, as in 'kills', European wide however, are generally down to dogs.
It would be interesting to know if any loss figures have been quoted in local papers? Equally interesting to know if current loss figures have increased since the Wolves were re-introduced.
Mind you if it was proved that dogs were responsible, that would surely lead to another protest and road blockage.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Coming back from 3V on saturday I saw the queues and If I was in it I'd be bringing the wolves back to feed on the farmers - along with the police who were standing with them smoking and chatting instead of doing something about it
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Manda, you won't get run over by a bus or any vehicle, unless it's a tractor in the Vanoise, as all vehicles other than agricultural are banned. The only way in or out is to walk.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 21-03-05 19:07; edited 1 time in total
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Or a couple of MIRAGES playing 'Kill the leader'...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Manda, Oh I hope not as I will be from Sunday. Will you 2 still be here when the Lions tour NZ, as I will enjoy your gloating/suffering (whichever is applicable)
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Speaking of wildlife; Was at La Plagne one yr and was on a long drag when a liitl fat shrew wandered accross the snow in front of me. I managed to miss him, and shouted a warning to the boarder behind me. He saw the little fella and tried his best to miss but edged his board too late and cut the lovely little creature clean in 2. Amazing how much blood a shrew has or hhasnt as the case may be.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have a grudging respect for the french farmers who are trying to protect their livelihood. When no one listens to you you have to make your point somehow. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Chris B, I do accept that you have a valid viewpoint and the right of protest is a valuable one to any democracy. My frustration with this type of protest, is that it is totally indiscriminate and affects people who have no power to alter the perceived ill. I also think it's a very 'Bully-boy' tactic - Don't you feel that there is something very distasteful about the fact that some group, with a vested interest can say, "You are not going anywhere, because I say so"??
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Bernard Condon, it's not that many years since Maggie made secondary picketing illegal in the UK... and it's still acceptable practice in France, when exercised "reasonably" (short periods of time, etc). The deciding factor I suppose in its "reasonableness" is that generally speaking, the French accept it as a viable form of protest.
[edit: that's not to say I approve, however!]
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Tue 22-03-05 18:24; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Years ago a French lorry blockade enabled our coach (Eurolines) trip to Chamonix to be cut by about 4-5 (I think) hours due to the fact that we couldn't get to most of the places the coach would normally go to, so it nipped straight over the Jura. We had a lovely extra day in Chamonix that year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skanky, Where there's muck, there's brass!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bernard Condon, I know if I was on the bus and was effected then I would not at that moment be at all sympathetic to their plight. It is becoming increasing frustrating for alot of people that there are more and more pen pushers in the world who are not at the sharp end of anything and take valuable resources away from those who are. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Chris B, I do know where you are coming from! The power of retailers alone and some of the more questionable decisions of the EU, have left farming in a right old mess.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There is talk of reintroducing wolves to Scotland. C'est la vie!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| On Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:15 am David@traxvax (Location: London) wrote: |
| Bernard, more than likely, the hunters around here frighten me more than the wolves. They're out in the season with high powered rifles, not shotguns, and are often pretty close to the roads. |
I too live in London and know there are certain areas that should be avoided. Clearly where you hang out David is one to add to the list.
I would be grateful if you could PM me with the details.
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FAQ
Of course, I'm willing to be proved wrong.....