 Poster: A snowHead
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Mad sunday night lateral thought after watching eth Superg
So in teh downhill and teh SuperG, the heavier guys have defintely got an advantage. So why don't the lighter skiers - John Kucera-type build, just wear weighted suits to give them some extra momentum ? Is there a FIS rule that prevents this ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would have thought that any weight that isn't muscle is going to hinder you hugely as you try to move your body up and down to force you skis through the turns. Weighted skis could be an idea though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sev112,
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the heavier guys have defintely got an advantage
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do they really?
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maybe i'm wrong, but maier, cuche, walchofer, svindal seem big guys. The heavier crews get down teh bobsleigh tracks quickest - obviously technique is vital, but given equivalent technique (and mental capability etc), then extra mass gives greater momentum/speed ( i would have thought)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd be surprised if there weren't advantages and disadvantages for both heavier and less heavy DH skiers. For example - whilst a heavy skier might carry more straightline speed, they may need to edge more heavily and lose that advantage. In reality, perhaps those advantages/disadvantages equate to 10th or 100th of a second differences over a top class DH race.
Can I get off the fence now 
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Chasseur,
Are you a politician 
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using this rationale, I should be a long time and reigning WC champion, with dedication to my race prep the key to my legendary status
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There are (and have been) big guys in the downhill - Patrick Ortleib, Peter Muller, Michael Mair spring to mind from recent history. Walchofer is a big guy, but he often seems a bit awkward to me. I don't remember Klammer as being particularly big - and although Cuche is stocky, he seems to be a bit short. Carlo Janka is no giant either. I'm rambling now......... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wearing the weight low down, perhaps on your hips, should be an advantage. We used to wear weight jackets for windsurf speed sailing and slalom races. Terrible for the vertibrae.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Axsman, you are correct about that if you were to ski somewhere with no atmosphere and no friction whatsoever between the skis and the snow then yes, weight would make no difference. However in skiing there is air reisistance and friction and the greater your momentum the less these will affect your speed. This only really comes into affect on the flat parts of ski courses.
F = m*a is the equation you're after, ie the greater the persons mass the less they're going to deccelerate under the same force.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rambotion wrote: |
| Axsman, you are correct about that if you were to ski somewhere with no atmosphere ..... |
What, like Bansko?
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At least one of the smaller girls in our race club does.
The effect of added mass is quite obvious in head-to-head races, where the lighter kids decelerate much quicker than the larger of us, particularly on the flatter sections.
Friction is also (in the normal model) proprtional to mass, so heavier masses will decelerate under friction at the same rate as lighter. The principal effect is considered to be air resistance - the driving downhill force is proportional to mass (which is sort of proportional to height cubed), as is the resisting frictional force, but the drag-resistive force is primarily dependent on cross-sectional area (which is sort of proportional to height squared). Hence as you get larger your weight (and momentum) goes up faster than the drag and you'll glide longer if you're heavier - and even more so if you're more spherical rather than more bean-pole like.
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You know it makes sense.
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A skier carrying weights would have to be very strong to deal with the extra forces in the turns. I imagine it's not FIS legal anyway.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| ... as you get larger your weight (and momentum) goes up faster than the drag and you'll glide longer if you're heavier - and even more so if you're more spherical rather than more bean-pole like. |
On that basis I should be able to glide from the top of the Grande motte to somewhere near Lyons.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Axsman wrote: |
| I seem to remember Neil Armstrong dropping a hammer and a feather on the moon and they both fell together |
Apologies for being a bit anal, but it was Dave Scott.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, No apologies necessary. I'm sure you are right and my memory was dim. I remember watching this on black and white TV when I was about 12. (so early 70's). 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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a good biggun always beats a good little-un...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Axsman, and they replayed it on QI I think just last week...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Axsman, I met him a few years ago when he was giving a lecture in London. Very nice guy, very unassuming for somebody who has walked on the Moon.
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| Axsman wrote: |
| I was about 12. (so early 70's). |
Stone?
The power of the lard!!
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| MarjMJ wrote: |
| Jeez - I had been thinking about this too the other day. Small world. Got as far as considering what kind of material the weights would have to be so they didn't cause injury on impact - something dense but soft. |
Mystery solved - http://www.firebox.com/product/1388/The-Beerbelly?src_t=
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN has it right.
See 15.2, here, for the algebra.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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MarjMJ,
water ? Jelly ? You could get the added benefit of extra padding/protection in case of crash
Patent's mine 
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FAQ
) but from my memory of high school physics, doesn't weight (mass under gravity) make no difference to terminal velocity? it's air resistance that is the issue.
