 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sarah, I don't really mind that much when teaching kids so long as they're past the power snowplough stage, and they're mature enough not to use them as weapons. No qualms about taking them off them either - I tend to default back to no poles for the whole group at lower levels, even if some of the parents send them along with them. It's not really a big issue - the smaller ones don't really need them regardless, but it's useful for them to become natural as soon as possible.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DaveC wrote: |
| but it's useful for them to become natural as soon as possible. |
Dave thanks for the speedy response, what do you mean by this? That it's natural for them to have poles and to get to this point as soon as possible??
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I was told by the ESF that they should start with poles around the premiere etoile stage, that is when they are at the point of parallel turns. My son has been using them this year and he is 5. Unless they are snowboarders that is.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidof, thanks this was roughly what I thought too. Situation is this: last year son was told to have poles as you say at premiere etoile (well it was ESI so transition from cristal to bronze), then this season he was told no poles at 2* level even though group below had them  , then at half term he achieved ESI silver cristal (approx 3 *) was skiiing with poles 'bien sur' and shocked expression was the answer when I enquired, now today he has returned to the kids club in the fridge at home and had them removed. I am getting a bit brassed off with the inconsistencies and I am sure he is getting a bit confused. Not quite sure how to proceed.
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sarah, it's inconsistant because it's a pretty massive grey area. Kids don't tend to start pole planting or seperating upper/lower body until 10+ (broadly). My thoughts on them is that kids may as well have them as soon as they don't block important body movements by accident - so ideally when they're starting to stem turns/match skis on traverses. Generally, though - it depends on the kid. Just go with common sense 
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DaveC, thanks. He is beyond that stage now. What should I do, discuss with the fridge instructor and say that I prefer he now continues with poles as he has skied 2 weeks in resort with them and will be doing again soon? Would this be reasonable?
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sarah, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If the rest of the group is without poles, no reason for yours to be with them - they're not really a development tool until later on in physical growth as well as skiing development. As for chopping and changing, I doubt he'll mind if it makes him fit in with the group. Basically I'd let his instructor decide - you can discuss this with the instructor too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DaveC, thanks, will discuss it with instructor next week
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sarah, I find that instructors with adults (privates and group lessons) also have times when they insist on no poles - either for doing specific drills, or just because they think the poles are a hindrance to people getting their weight right, etc etc. I'd just go with the flow - and tell your son that different instructors, for different groups, sometimes want people to have poles, sometimes not, and that even very expert skiers sometimes get lessons with no poles, or when they have to do different things with them (e.g. you often see the race club kids skiing with their poles held behind their necks). I've often been told by instructors to ditch the poles for a while - for example at Hemel only a few months ago.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, thanks
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sarah, as said above just let the instructors decide, there is absolutely no harm in chopping and changing.
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sarah, I know he's pretty young, but why don't you talk to the little one about it and get him to be laid back about the issue? Ask what has he used them to do? Accelerate? Go along the flat? Point out that for many people, all they are is a tool to help when the ground is flat, yet really good skiers can skate along instead, even uphill and surely he'd rather grow up to be one of those. Reassure him it's just fine to ski with or without and that adults do it too, especially in lessons - it's just different ways of learning and nothing to get worried about. Maybe when you're skiing with him sometime do a few runs where neither of you have them and show him it's no big deal to you? Tell him there are good reasons to use them - but they're certainly not an essential at all times.
When in a lesson last year we were asked to ditch the poles - I found it liberating as I could concentrate better on what my skis and body were doing, but another skier (a bit more experienced and confident than me) was not at all happy as it was their first ever run without poles - so I was rather unpopular when I asked if we could stay without them a little longer 
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You know it makes sense.
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beanie1, thanks, it's the chopping and changing bit that's hard to deal with, the fact that it's all a bit arbitrary and down to instructor preference. Basically yesterday it was the OH who raised the issue and he is of the opinion that once a child has progressed to a level where poles are given then they shouldn't be removed, except for specific drills and exercises of course.
Butterfly M is laid back about it, that's not an issue fortunately, he's not one of these kids who is desperate to have poles, in fact quite the opposite. And this is why we're a bit concerned, in the past he hasn't wanted them when the instructor insisted he had to have them, and that has caused problems. Now he's comfortable with them and then they were removed. Don't want to keep going through this every holiday. He is by no means reliant on his poles and has learnt to skate in a fashion
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tamworth fridge the kids don't get poles till they are in the junior club and have passed the BASI Snowlife level 6 award and the big people don't get them in the lessons up to recreational standard. The instructors have made all points above about concentrating on the skis, one less thing to worry about etc but also made the important point that if you've learnt to ski without poles in the first place then if you loose or break a pole halfway up a mountain its no big deal.
Interesting to say the least that on holiday last week a couple of the adult intermediates (both good confident intermediate skiers) in our group were rather worried (to say the least!) when the instructor had us ski a blue without poles for a particular exercise as they'd never skied without them before. For me and my eldest two girls who were in that group with me, just as the Snowdome guys had said, no big deal, we could just concentrate on doing what we'd been asked to do. My kids (even 6 year old Chloe) happily ski with or without poles depending on what the instructor asks and all will happily tell you both ways are important skills.
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Poster: A snowHead
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sarah, good to know he's laid back about it and I think that is the most important thing. I'd praise him for being happy to ski with or without and persuade OH not to worry about it. M's so lucky to be learning to ski at his age - wish I had done!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It is much more important for children to become balanced on their feet/skis than to use poles. As has been said poles can block this (although more ususally with adults than children!) and therefore some instructors choose to teach without them initially. Different instructors introduce poles at different time and at different stages of the progression....I don't think this is a problem and as said what you do with your feet/skis is much more important!
Poles and children on chairlifts etc. can also be a problem.........I've certainly taught lessons that have included a lot of retreiving poles from under the last lift taken!!! and therfore opted for no poles the following day................children benifit more from being taught than chasing dropped poles!!! but this very much depends on the children (and perhaps their ages) in the group!
I would explain to your child that different instructors/lessons require different things and at the moment poles arn't needed but that he will get them back in another lesson in the future! Perhaps also explain that what the skis are doing is much more important so that he can understand a little bit why poles are coming and going!!
Hope this helps and your son continues to enjoy his skiing with or without poles!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
another skier (a bit more experienced and confident than me) was not at all happy as it was their first ever run without poles
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indeed, as this and the post from davkt points out, some people who rather fancy themselves on skis behave like babies being deprived of their dummies if you try to take their poles away. At the risk of starting another argument, it's a good reason for ski instructors to put people on blades for a lesson. They have no poles to hang on to for grim death, and they can't lean on the back of their skis either.
Any skier not happy on ordinary sort of slopes without poles (I'm not talking about moguls and death defying black steeps here) ought to ask themselves why, and maybe spend a day without them. Perhaps take a video camera out and have something else to think about!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sarah, Butterfly, And me, have wanted to since I was about 10 but have only just managed to!
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davkt, don't worry you will soon make up for lost time
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Am working hard at it! Tamworth fridge most weeks (though the slope does seem a little gentle after a week in the Carpathians  ) and trying to figure a way of fitting a weekend in the highlands in before the EoSB!
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My 4 and 6 year olds were given poles in Kids breakfast club at the fridge for part of the session. The 6 year old held them asthough he was in a downhill, the 4 year old didn't really get on with them. I think we'll try and avoid poles in france next week
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Update on the pole situation - the ESF instructor has asked me to send the kids with poles tomorrow. Good luck to him
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My kids were given poles at about age 5 which for them was at the start of their 3 week of ski school.
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