 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi everyone
I am 65kg and about 178cm tall. Not sure how to class my level but i can ski all piste runs no problem and most off piste in good conditions. I probabley ski about 50% piste, 50% powder and moguls (25% each). Previously i have ended up using skis that are probably to small (chin height) and to thin.
I now want to start skiing a bit more off piste and want a ski that will help me improve my offpiste while still being fairly good on piste.
The following are the two skis i have been thinking about- salomon shogun and salomon lord.
Another option people have metioned to me is the scott punishers.
Which would you reccomend and what length would you think.
Thanks in Advance
Josh
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cheers guys, any comments on the skis i have been looking at, mainly the shogun and lord?? thanks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lords a good ski although a little on the soft side. Shogun could possibly be a bit on the wide side, but if you're going to be offpiste most of the time you could probably justify it. I really do think the Sultan 85 is the highest performance genuine all mountain ski, good float in powder, nice and stiff in the crud, holds and edge and carves well on everything but the iciest of pistes.
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joshsurf1, 2nd the sultan...
okbye
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For the Sultan 85 the german test summary that I posted earlier in the thread is ...
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| Gut im unverspurten Gelände, bietet auf der Piste zu wenig Kantengriff. Etwas zu weich |
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Translation =
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| Good in untracked powder but not enough edge grip on the piste. A bit too soft |
You are light for your height so it might work very well for you. esp. offpiste
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joshsurf1, my weight and height match yours exactly. I've done 17 weeks in total, spread over a 29 year period and think of myself as a good intermediate to advanced skier.
The only good 50/50 ski I have used so far is the Scott Neo 166 cm semi twin tip, with a waist width of 82 mm (122-82-111, radius 13 m). I found that width and length fine for my weight in boot-deep soft snow, but because it is a semi twin tip it skis shorter than its full length on piste. If I was to hire it again I would probably go for the next size up (176 cm) although I don't particularly enjoy using skis that long.
If you go for a wider ski like the Lord or Shogun, you probably wouldn't need to have as much length. The general rule (according to wiser, more experienced skiers than me) is that good skiers like head height skis for off piste, if their weight is in proportion to their height. I would suggest that you and I, at 65 kg, are a little underweight for our height and can therefore get away with a skinnier or shorter ski.
Have you considered the Movement Jam, available from Ellis Brigham? I would really love to try those out.
http://www.movementskis.net/skis/freeride/jam
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Shogun is a horrible ski, I think, but if you like the Fury type skis, you might like it.
The Shogun has a bamboo core which promotes a light feel. This makes it skittish in crud
and wind-blown and it feels none too substantial underfoot because of this. So, for the 101mm waist
you get a ski that doesn't track well off-piste and can't do too much because of its width, on-piste
In perfect snow, it is good, but then so are a lot of other skis which are more fun all round.
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I'm pretty similar to you and really like my scott punishers, you could try the scott mission, the non twin tip version of the punisher. They're fat enough to float and I do enjoy their on piste performance. Obviously they're not as good on piste as a dedicated piste ski although I have skied less fun piste skis on piste.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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joshsurf1, I'd agree with a lot of the advice on this thread. I'm a bit heavier than you but not much. I've skied the Missions, Yaka Jams and Neos. I wasn't convinced that in the real world the Neos had any significant advantage over the YJ on piste and I preferred the YJ in the soft stuff. I think the Mission was a little better in deeper/softer but much preferred the YJ on groomed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DB wrote: |
For the Sultan 85 the german test summary that I posted earlier in the thread is ...
| Quote: |
| Gut im unverspurten Gelände, bietet auf der Piste zu wenig Kantengriff. Etwas zu weich |
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Translation =
| Quote: |
| Good in untracked powder but not enough edge grip on the piste. A bit too soft |
You are light for your height so it might work very well for you. esp. offpiste |
Too soft?! You sure that's not the Sultan 80? The 85 is considerably stiffer than competitors like the Rossi Bandits/K2 Recons and Explorer, and indeed stiffer than the old L8k...
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For what it's worth, I tried the Shogun in Cas and found it really unimpressive. Seemed unresponsive there, but way too soft to be the big mountain ski it seems to be shaped as.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'd agree with the recommendations to try some Missions - I'm the same height as you (but heavier) and I think it's a very good all-round ski.
As I mentioned in another thread I tried the Shoguns earlier in the season and really liked them. I was surprised when I found out how wide they were as they hadn't struck me as being particularly wide - although that may just be a result of me becoming more used to wider skis. I thought they skied well on and off piste - I thought it was similar to the Mission in response. PinoP, DaveC - I'm a little over 75kg - are you significantly heavier than that? I'm wondering whether the Shoguns may be less suitable for heavier skiers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Also DB recommended some Explorers - good ski and sturdier than Missions/Shoguns in my experience. It also might be worth trying the narrower Recons as well.
joshsurf1, what skis have you been using for the past couple of years?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Joshsurf1, I am about the same weight as you and recently found this season's Xplorer a very heavy ski to handle. That said, particularly where I was testing it (Aspen, so a K2 ski has a natural constituency), it had a significant band of disciples. The locals really loved it and - on the basis that they know their stuff - I think it would be well worth trying.
I would be pretty skeptical about the Dynastar Sultan 85 if you are a good enough skier to be 50 per cent on-piste and 50 per cent off. It is relatively soft and its shovel shape means that it is really easy to initiate and complete turns. But for the same reasons, I did not find it very demanding or exciting at all either on the piste or in the soft stuff.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Simples, i have been to aspen too...the locals ski skis in conjunction with the conditions they ski...the sultan suits european conditions which is where i assume joshsurf1, will be skiing mostly...apart from you, i have never heard anyone calling the sultan soft (in relation to its competition)... but that is your opinion and you are entitled to be wrong...
okbye
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
For the Sultan 85 the german test summary that I posted earlier in the thread is ...
| Quote: |
| Gut im unverspurten Gelände, bietet auf der Piste zu wenig Kantengriff. Etwas zu weich |
.
Translation =
| Quote: |
| Good in untracked powder but not enough edge grip on the piste. A bit too soft |
You are light for your height so it might work very well for you. esp. offpiste |
Too soft?! You sure that's not the Sultan 80? The 85 is considerably stiffer than competitors like the Rossi Bandits/K2 Recons and Explorer, and indeed stiffer than the old L8k... |
I'm only posting what the test says please don't shoot the messenger, yes it was the Sultan 85. Ski tests should be taken with a bucket of salt esp French skis tested in a german test although the test winner was K2 (Chinese?).
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Cheers for all the help guys, previously i had rented skis, never really got anything too good, always about 3 years old fairly short twin tips. i found these fine on piste but offpiste they where not that good. Sorry i cant name any.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am now thinking between
Dynastar Sultan 85
Scott Missions
Salomon Shogun
Salomon Lord
I am hoping the skis i get will really help improve my off piste and will gradually edge towards slightly more off than on piste skiing. Therefore im still edging towards the Salomon Shoguns, really depends how much this ski compares to the others on piste and when snow conditions are not so good (as in not much fresh snow, piste getting a bit icy, etc)
Any comments on this would be great.
Cheers Everyone
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joshsurf1, see if you can find some of the shorter (yellow - 176 i think) Black Crow Navis to demo - they won't let you down on any surface. A little stiffer than the Missions/Lords tho. Perhaps at your weight the softer skis are the way to go? I don't think you'll enjoy the Shoguns on an icy piste. . .
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alan empty,
I am 85kg plus and used a 182. What put me off the most was that they just didn't respond or show any stability when you needed it. They are easy enough to ski generally
but never felt like they could bust through crud or grip on harder snow. The egde on piste was ok, but if you clattered over windblown they were far from convincing, hence my skittish comment. I couldn't wait to get off them. I don't mind lighter skis, but you have to feel them underfoot. I agree they don't feel 101mm but I didn't get the benefit from that width off-piste so can't see the point of them, for me.
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Salomon Shoguns, really depends how much this ski compares to the others on piste and when snow conditions are not so good (as in not much fresh snow, piste getting a bit icy, etc)
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My impression of these skis was that they will be fine in good snow, but on harder pistes and firmer snowpacks off piste, they lack conviction.
The ease of use on piste is ok but they are too limited, in my experience, to be an all-mountain ski, for all types of snow.
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PinoP, the conditions I skied them on were pretty variable and they were stable for me at all times as far as I can remember. I was skiing on Scott Crusades last week, and they may just shade it as my favourite ski of recent years, but I'd like to give the Shoguns another go (and maybe search out some rubbish conditions to really put them through their paces!). Also want to try some Mantras and Gotamas, which I'm assuming will make for an interesting comparison.
What would be your choice for an all-singing, all-dancing, all-mountain ski?
ww166no, I've not skied the latest model, but assuming it performs similarly to the one I tried then I think that may be too much of a compromise on-piste for the OP. Unless they've softened considerably, I'd have thought them much stiffer than the Missions/Lords etc and pretty wide. Who knows though? It's hardly an exact science, which is why we get to ramble on endlessly in threads like this 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd second alan empty, on Scott Crusades. I tried them out for 4 days in Tignes in December and thought they worked well on piste as well as for the limited time I tried them off piste. If I hadn't just bought a pair of Icelantic Pilgrims I would definitely be looking to purchase some Crusades.
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alan empty, i guess you're right although i'd still recommend them if joshsurf1, really wants to persue the off piste more. I haven't tried the old model, but prefered the current one to the mantras on piste. If you're interested in the mantras i found scarpas review v helpful and accurate.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=46761
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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joshsurf1, I've always been of the opinion that Salomon skis are constructed out of something like jelly & optimism. I personally wouldn't touch any of their skis but then again i don't like them.
I'd look for something around 178-182 in length with about an 85-90mm waste & a turn radius around 20m. That would be my idea of a do everything ski for someone doing the kind of skiing you've described.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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alan empty,
Nodica Enforcer, K2 Kung Fujas, Mantra for an off-piste bias but still more than useful on piste. For all mountain, 50/50, Kastle MX88.
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