 Poster: A snowHead
|
I know companies are not slow to miss a trick.
I am now used to the ski carriage, fuel and credit charge surcharges.
How long have operators been using this one ? As an example, Neilson want £25 to get you from Salzburg to Saalbach and back again.
What else can they charge extra for ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Latchigo,
| Quote: |
What else can they charge extra for ?
|
Just about anything it would seem, you missed single supplements which whilst they often exist at hotels are rarely as much as the tour ops charge
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
It's to encourage you to book direct!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Latchigo, I am sure that by 2006, the cabin air in all tour operator aircraft will be chargeable on an hourly basis - after all you cannot expect to get that for nothing, plus a small fee for using the steps to board the aircraft - please have the correct money ready as you cannot pre-book these services.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I'm sure I recall a tale of passengers having to pay for the fuel in their aircraft on one occasion 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh yes, and I'm sure Thompson charge you if you want to pre-book your seat on the plane so you can sit next to your kids/partner etc.
Better go before I start to rant 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Latchigo, All this on top of the extra they charge you for your liftpass etc! Book direct as Wear The Fox Hat, suggests.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I want a refund for all those times I've never used the life jacket on a flight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Next they'll be putting coin locks on the toilets on planes...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Dave J, I'd pay not to. Charging extra for transfers is surely in contravention of some fair trading legislation r the other. I understand that the 'headline' brochure price has to be a real price; there can be no-one who wants to fly to an airport and pay for accomodation but not actually go to the resort. The headline price must therefore include a transfer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
richmond, IS right. If this is advertised as a Package Trip then it is not cricket - I am sure it would be worth running this by Trading Standards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bernard Condon, do what ? In what legislation or case law is there a definition of what constitutes a package?
You only have yourselves to blame, the companies do it because they can and because you expect them to. By "you" mean I mean 99% of their customers and the jokes not on them, it's on the 1% who still use the operators and then complain afterwards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
ise has a point.Has 'anybody' ever paid the advertised price?They all do it(TO that is)I had a stand up row with a certain high street agent before Christmas.On the window they had,what appeared to be,a cracking 'all inclusive' deal.When I enquired they said 'one moment,we will calculate it for you'?I pointed out the words 'all inclusive',they ignored me.Suffice to say it came out much higher than the window price.I immediately accused them of sharp practise.They essentially said take it,or leave it.I left it,after telling them where to put it
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
snowskisnow,
This is one of those situation in which I've found camera phones actually useful. Take a picture of the advert. Take a picture of the shop. Take both to your council's Trading Standards people. They'll had a field day!!!!
Alternatively just show the photos to the holiday shop and, if necessary, tell then what you are going to do. You might just find that miraculously it's available!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
ise, I choose not to use Tour Operators where possible and have managed to give them the slip since 1993. Not all skiers are in a position to avoid them and many have no option but to use them. In the UK we have some protections against the excesses of tour operators. If Messrs Neilson advertised this holiday to Latchico as an inclusive Ski Holiday, then he should not have to pay additionally for a transfer from the airport. His immediate and free remedy in this country, is to complain to Trading Standards, who will investigate and if necessary prosecute the miscreant.
| Quote: |
You only have yourselves to blame, the companies do it because they can and because you expect them to. By "you" mean I mean 99% of their customers and the jokes not on them, it's on the 1% who still use the operators and then complain afterwards.
|
You seem to take a very high moral and forgive me if I say, somewhat smug, position on this. You may not have intended to infer, that because of some superior intellect you do not use Tour Operators and anyone who does is an idiot. However, it does sound like it!!
I have been indirectly involved for many years in sorting out some of the less savoury activities of some organisations and I have become very cynical in my outlook regarding consumer's rights. However, in my view nobody expects to be conned as you suggest. Many people could not afford a skiing trip without using Tour operators and it is not right that they should be looked down on as idiots just because they choose this form of travel. They have every right to use a Tour Operator and they have every right to expect a reasonable service and if it is not satisfactory then they have every right to complain about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
snowskisnow, RobW has got the right idea. It's a GREAT idea. (Prize: 1 Choclate bar) Don't let the bugs get away with it! Instead of telling them where to stick it, do what Rob did and have Trading Standards stick it to them where it hurts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
snowskisnow, I hope you asked them to dispose of the stamped poster, in an environmentally friendly fashion!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| RobW wrote: |
snowskisnow,
This is one of those situation in which I've found camera phones actually useful. Take a picture of the advert. Take a picture of the shop. Take both to your council's Trading Standards people. They'll had a field day!!!!
! |
What a load of nonsense. No, they won't, you've not done it either. It's a completely unsustainable argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ise,
Thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
At least it's not some nonsense I made up that sounded good down the pub is it?
Have you tried it at the trading standards then? Did it fly?
Anything anyone's not just made up and then acted surprised if it's not accepted we'll take a valuable contribution I think.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
| Have you tried it at the trading standards then? Did it fly? |
No I haven't tried it - camera phone hadn't been invented last time I used a travel agent. But I have used a camera phone as evidence of pricing in one shop to get another to price match.
I have complained to trading standard in the past of misleading pricing, but they commented that they'd need evidence, such as a photo.
And there are many cases of travel agents being prosecuted by trading standards for misleading pricing.
From your comment, it could be thought that you have tried my suggestion and that it didn't work - but your earlier message implied you wouldn't be seen dead using a tour operator.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| RobW wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Have you tried it at the trading standards then? Did it fly? |
No I haven't tried it - camera phone hadn't been invented last time I used a travel agent. But I have used a camera phone as evidence of pricing in one shop to get another to price match.
I have complained to trading standard in the past of misleading pricing, but they commented that they'd need evidence, such as a photo.
And there are many cases of travel agents being prosecuted by trading standards for misleading pricing.
From your comment, it could be thought that you have tried my suggestion and that it didn't work - but your earlier message implied you wouldn't be seen dead using a tour operator. |
No, I live in Switzerland, getting in the car and going skiing just works better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I know this happens with Summer packages. Someone I know booked with Airtours(?) and then found on the flight they weren't receiving meals (adults didn't mind, but kids were upset). On arrival at the airport, they were refused access to to coach as they hadn't paid for the transfer, and it was full anyway. As resort was a 2 hour trip away, a taxi cost them a fortune. Apparently the travel agent should have metioned it, but as the family in question booked direct.................
To add insult to injury, the hotel was awful, and they ended up booking a Sleazyjet flight home 2 days later.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
You live and learn;or so you should?I believed I knew every possible TO scam,yet Nielson's still managed to get me over lift passes(quoting local prices in euros,yet only accepting payment by card in sterling,at their rates)Thats another scam on an almost endless list 
It was suggested,on another thread,that I don't get on with Travel Agents cos I pi$$ them off.Too right!!You see,I ask questions,lots of them,and they don't like it.I poke in all the dusty corners,looking for the 'hidden' extra's.The things they 'should' tell but will avoid if they can.Probably explains why I always end up going DIY.The only exception(in years)being a trip this Jan with Nielson's;and they scammed me!!You live and learn
Overall,I think ise has probably found the best solution 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowskisnow, quite right, one of the reasons I keep going back to the same hotel in the same resort is because whilst I get treated as a guest I also get treated as a friend, nobody is ripping me off I even get invited to birthday parties and have cards sent to me on my birthday, which is more than most of my so called friends in the uk can manage, no blasted tour ops no commission and a very reasonable price, now if we could just get a snow train to Switzerland again I'd be happy
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Whilst I agree with a lot of what is said here I think you should know how a tour operator works. Usually they get around a 25% discount on the costs that make a package. By the way a "package" is any 2 elements that form a part of a holiday. They then produce a brochure marking that package back up to pretty much what it would have been before the discounts. However Travel agents take up to 20% of that price for selling the holiday. (That's why T. Ops prefer you to book direct WITH THEM, (not the hotel) as some seemed to think in the above posts).
There are some elements that companies will not give the required 25% on (golf green fees is a good example). If that is the case the T. Op has a problem in selling that element. Most of the time they tell the Travel Agent it is non-commissionable and it is just sold as a service.
IF a travel agent is offering a discounted price it is they who are stripping out elements of the package not the T. Op, so aiming at the Tour Operator is not the right thing to do.
Booking direct with the Tour Operator will usually get you a better deal as they have some ££ to play with as no commission to pay.
The only time this breaks down is with vertically integrated tours. Where the one company owns the whole lot. Plane, hotel sometimes and travel agency. They are then taking all the cuts all along. Neilson is a good e.g. They are owned by Thompson/Airtours (If I remember correctly). So they tend not to discount if you book direct but can offer great deals for early/late bookings as any loss is spread. I hope that helps.
By the way I WAS a tour operator manager for some years. (You will still speak to me won't you?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
boredsurfin, Ah no that's OK I don't need to be swamped
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Michael B, So have you retired to a tax haven with all the money you made as a tour operator manager?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
On a similar note. When we went to Alpe D'huez with First Choice this year we we're charged 156 euros for the lift pass, checked Alpe D'Huez website for prices they also state 156 euros. When we received the passes, the price on the reverse said 128 euros.
Do Alph D'huez tourism give holiday companies discounts?
Are these holiday companies making 28 euros on each lift pass sold?
Surely they should pass this saving onto the customer???
Am I naive???
B*****s!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Bored At Work, most places will give a group discount on lift passes. If a rep is buying more than 10, then they will make a saving. I guess the alternative is to get together with another 9 people......
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Elizabeth B, thanks... feel a bit better for that cos only 8 of us went 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
snowbunny, Wish that were true but it was a Government owned T. Op. I still work for that Government.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ise, I'm not quite sure what your point is. If people accept crap packages that's their fault. That in itself doesn't stop the offer from the TO contravening fair trading law. Misleading advertising is a fair trading issue and may contravene the law. Offering a skiing package hol without a transfer might very well be regarded as misleading.
If you want an example of someone using fair trading law/Trading Standards Office (not especially relevant to transfers, but never mind), I complained to my local Trading Standards Office about a Ski Freedom brochure and web site which offered a fly-drive package to Colorado which was not available at the price and date offered. I received the strong impression from them that they regarded it as illegal and that they intended to do something about it. Whether they will or not is a different matter, of course.
If your point is that this sort of behaviour by TOs is the fault of customers' for demanding cheaper and cheaper hols, you have a point. The only way round it is to use the better operators (at a price, no doubt) or do it yourself (often cheaper in Europe, rarely in N.America, I suspect).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| richmond wrote: |
ise, I'm not quite sure what your point is. If people accept crap packages that's their fault. That in itself doesn't stop the offer from the TO contravening fair trading law. Misleading advertising is a fair trading issue and may contravene the law. Offering a skiing package hol without a transfer might very well be regarded as misleading.
|
The point's quite simple, it's not contravening any law at all to sell a crap product. There's no accepted definition of what a package is, the English language tells you a package is anything of more than two parts, like "Michael B" told you and he's clearly in the know. If they want to charge you extra for the transfer or ski carriage there's no law at against it.
Part of the problem is indeed UK customers demanding lower prices, another part is the "I was so annoyed I nearly said something" impotence and another part the pub-talk nonsense of what people perceive their rights are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
IMHO Your rights are only as deep as your pockets are to pay for a lawyer to obtain them for you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ise, I'm not at all sure that you're right. It may well be against the law to sell a crap product (if it's crap enough), although that's not really the issue here, nor is the definiton of 'package holiday is likely to be relevant (although even if there is no accepted definition of a 'package holiday', English courts are perfectly capable of deciding what one is). The issue is more likely to be one of misleading advertising, which is (in some circumatances anyway) illegal. I think that you would have little difficulty in convincing a court that a TO's brochure which shows prices without transfers and does not make it abundantly clear alongside the prices that an (effectively) essential element of the packages is not included iss calculated to mislead, and is illegal.
One of the cheapo airlines (Ryanair, I think) was recently successfully prosecuted and fined for advertising ticket prices without insurance and without an immediately accompanying notice to that effect. That situation is not exactly the same as offering a 'package' without a transfer, but it's pretty close.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
