 Poster: A snowHead
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Following on from some abuse i've received on another thread based on some statements i've made. I had it in mind to start another thread for discussion based upon ability levels from the elite to the masses. So here's my take on it, from my perspective as an off piste/ski mountaineering/freeride skier -
100% of skiers can put a pair of skis on & fall over
95% of skiers can get down the average green slope in any style
90% of skiers can get down the average blue slope in any style
75-80% of skiers can get down the average red slope in any style
75% of skiers can can get down the average blue slope in good style, perfect parallel skiing able to deal with & get around any difficulties they encounter
65-70% of skiers can get down the average black in any style
65% of skiers can can get down the average red in good style, perfect parallel skiing, able to deal with & get around any difficulties they encounter
50-60% of skiers can carve perfectly on reds & blues
50% of skiers can get down the average black in good style, etc., etc.
50% of skiers can can hack up off piste skiing to the steepness of the average red specifically powder or crud whilst periodically falling over & generally getting down but not having any style whilst doing so.
30-35% of skiers can ski in perfect powder up to the steepness of the average red without grace but getting down without falling over
25% of skiers can can ski powder, crud & windslab of the steepness of the average red at speed in perfect control without usually falling over.
20% of skiers can ski steeper (35-40 degree) off piste slopes without a lot of grace falling over occasionally
10-15% of skiers can ski steeper (35-40 degree) off piste slopes with good style & grace
10% of skiers can ski 45 degree slopes in perfect conditions without a lot of grace & falling over occasionally
5-7% of skiers can can ski 45 degree slopes with sustained constrictions eg. couloirs in perfect conditions
5% of skiers can ski 45 degree slopes in good style in most conditions
3% of skiers can ski 45 degree slopes with sustained constrictions in good style in most conditions
2% of skiers can ski slopes with prolonged sections of between 45 & 50 degrees in good conditions (just to note from around this point onwards conditions are assumed to be good as it's virtually impossible to ski in poor conditions if conditions aren't good).
1% of skiers can ski slopes with relatively short sections 50-100m of between 50 and 52/53 degrees (Once above about 50 degrees every degree of steepness makes a massive. Ignore the 5 degree jumps you here about in reports the difference between 50 & 55 degrees is enormous)
0.5% of skiers can can ski slopes that are sustained at 50-52 degrees, with very short periods, less than 30m of up to about 55 degrees
0.1% of skiers can ski slopes sustained at 55 degrees
0.05% of skiers can ski slopes sustained at 55 degrees that require extreme precision skiing & extensive mountaineering experience (think the Mallory Porter directly under the lift on the aiguille du midi)
0.01% of skiers can ski stuff harder than this
To put all of this into context in resort terms & i'm making a few assumptions here. An average resort say Tignes in high season will have say 15,000 skiers on the mountain in any given day. So -
50% - 7,500 people
10% - 1,500 people
5% - 750 people
1% - 150 people
Anyway you get the gist. These are just my thoughts based upon my time on the hills i'm open to others suggestions or interpretations of what they think this should be.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interesting categorisation - and very much tilted towards the kind of skiing you (and I - though nowhere near your standard) like to do. Where does running gates/moguls/trees fit in?
But for the most part that is a holding-your-finger-in-the-air-and-think-of-a-number jobbie - isn't it?
And I bet you that way fewer than 25% of skiers can ski windslab on red steepness in perfect contrrol without falling over.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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99% of skiers couldn't give a XXXX 
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stoatsbrother, I did say that my percentages are based upon my own experience/gut feeling & weighted in the direction/area of skiing i like to ski. Running gates is an area that i've never practised or had any experience of so amn't in a position to comment on, same a applies for pure freestyle. However i don't believe skiing moguls or trees make a massive difference to what i've stated. Say drop about 5-10% off of the figures for a given condition as i've quoted them. Oh & yes you're probably right about the windslab thing but i think in terms of possible skiing conditions windslab is an anomaly as it's pretty much the hardest condition of skiing to ski in.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A few people on the disabled forum might disagree.
For that matter, it's taken a couple of years for my stepson to learn to put his skis on and yet he seems unable to fall over.
Stoatsbrother
stick some gates on it and I'll have a go.
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Like the logic
Numbers a bit skewed - 70% can get down black slopes is nowhere near right - i would say (based on 15 years of group skiing , big chalets, friends who are saisonaires etc etc ) that probably only 25 to 33% can ski down blacks.
i Play golf off a 10 handicap - that apparently puts me in the top 10% of golfers. Which means the average golfer is a pretty "average" standard = i think the same is the case with skiers.
If you make Mean=Median (big assumption) then your veiw is taht teh average skier can carve perfectly ????? and ski down blacks. Teh average skier really skids on blues and reds
Still - i like the logic
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Is there a point to this other than to make frank4short feel superior? After all, made-up statistics don't really mean anything.
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frank4short, I think your percentages are overestimates, by and large.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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queen bodecia, No not at all. Think of it as like a cloud computing exercise. You put an idea out there & then come up with an answer upon the consensus that comes back. I am open to & interested in the ideas that people come back with as it gives a good idea what people think of it. Whereas you as far as i can tell tend to put down anything that falls outside of your red & blue sun shining perfect ski ideal whether that be steep off piste or equipment that's at the more expensive end of the spectrum.
sev112, I'd actually say that about 70% of skiers probably could get down a black without a lot/any style. It's just that a smaller % than this chose to actually bother as most that are on the threshold have more sense than to bother trying.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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frank4short, I don't 'put it down', I simply state that these things aren't for me. I know my limitations. Each to their own. In fairness I don't even understand a lot of your terminology, which is why it feels a little like you are out to impress, but of course that might be average coffee break banter for you! 
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| 99% of skiers couldn't give a XXXX |
thirded (or whatever the number is by now.)
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You know it makes sense.
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0.000000001% of Snowheads start boring threads that don't mean crap.
2% of Snowheads are only here because the SkiBeat thread ground to an inevitable halt.
0.000000000000001% of Snowheads are here because his wife is back from training and is watching the Raymond Blanc chocolate thing off sky+
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You seem to assume people perfect their on-piste skills then move off-piste. Skiing off-piste a slope the average steepness of a red in perfect powder is much easier than skiing a black in perfect control in bad conditions. And proper carving on a red isn't that easy either. I can carve parts of turns on a red but not pure carved arc to arc turns but could definately ski a perfect powder filled red with grace and style, I've also skied down plenty of slopes with crud, windslab and even breakable crust. The largest picture on this page http://www.haggistrap.co.uk/ is part of a blue run at Glencoe, about a month ago you skied through the gully which ended in an uphill slope then totally dropped off to about a 45 degree slope for about 2m, I was quite pleased when I managed to get down that blue  what percentage does this all put me in, my maths doesn't seem to be quite up to the task.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tosh and ego-w@nk.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
0.000000001% of Snowheads start interesting threads that mean crap.
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Corrected for you
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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frank4short, did you mean windcrust or breakable crust ? Windcrust is a hard layer caused by wind and often not well bonded to layers below, so implicated in a large proportion of fatal avalanches. Windcrust is not necessarily, or even usually, breakable by the skier. Breakable crust can also be formed by the sun and is usually used to mean a crust which sometimes supports the skier and sometimes does not, depending on the force exerted (though I've noticed some people also use it to refer to a thin crust the skier breaks through all the time).
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snowball, No definitely windcrust the type comes with satstrugi dips & troughs & all the loveliness that they bring to skiing off piste.
If you look here http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/graphs.html there are a series of graphs based on climbs users have added to their logbooks. What the statistics show is that the % of users that climb above E4 is less than 1%. Now in the climbing world, E4 whilst being really good is a very long way from being anything near the ultimate. If you take that UKclimbing.com is the worlds most popular/heavily used climbing website, it to my mind gives a good indication that at the higher end of the ability spectrum, & i believe this to be the case with pretty much all pursuits, that there are a lot less people at that level than is commonly believed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| andyph wrote: |
| Tosh and ego-w@nk. |
is that some kind of half pipe trick?
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it is threads like this that makes me glad I am a boarder 
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| andyph wrote: |
| Tosh and ego-w@nk. |
very difficult to argue against that 
But on the other hand - how can you progress technically if you do not compare yourself to other skiers or try and copy some of their style?
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Attributing percentages to this is, well, I guess it's like counting how many times you fall over really. Who gives a toss if you're having fun?
My question to you: what percentage of skiers cloud the simple joys of being in the mountains, be it snowploughing down a nursery slope, destroying some pillows or simply or simply having a beer on the terrace and getting burned on the terrace by being concerned about what % they are?
Either way, I'm now glad I've got an S1- I'll look forward to taking time out of my next great powder pitch to check what slope I'm sustaining. I'll start a thread to let y'all know.
I like this place by the way guys, y'all are pretty entertaining. Some in different ways to others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davelebus, I like your thinking.
Everyone else having a pop at poor old Frank - just what the hell type of threads do you expect on here after 6 years? It is a ski forum after all, adn we have really, really done the vast majority.
Now, there's a new question: just how many snow related topics are there to argue about? helmets/saftey, tyres, travel, weather, TOs, resorts, kids, and, yup, relative ability... is there anything else? Celebs maybe?
Just a thought - can we see from the Mods the % makeup of threads by subject area, so we can make sure we aren't missing any vital areas of disagreement?
PS I don't think it sounded like one of the "I'm better than you so bleah" threads I've complained about elsewhere... sure it's been done, it's kinda dull, it's nothing that hasn't been seen here before ( albeit I will concede it is a diffferent slant on an age-old  question how do you rank skiers? And again, I personally, would counter with " why do you rank skiers?") but overall, I don't think frank should get a hard time for it.
Meanwhile... back to TO bashing...
EDIT: On the other hand, just seen other topics around - some of Frank's other posts do tend to the "aren't I better than you" end of the spectrum... naughty naughty
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wow.... I think I am ranked off the scale at 0.001% and I suspect there could be a couple others on here too that fit the % too
0.001% of skiers that can enjoy happy hour beers followed by a bucket of chalet wine then talk rubbish into the small hours and stagger onto the first lift and then remember how to turn.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Problem with the upper end of this system of ability levels is that 98.3% of skiers don't carry a protractor, 97.4% of those who do keep stabbing themselves with the accompanying compass and the 1.081% who knew it was an inclinometer they really wanted couldn't give a cr@p.
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On any given day in Tignes, with say 15,000 skiers on it, NO WAY are there 149 other people who can ski as well as me. I post on an internet forum. OK?
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You know it makes sense.
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So based on this, you are in top 150 skiers. I'm impressed, even though classification is "a bit" weird, but still... pronouncing yourself as top 150 skiers is pretty cool thing... especially for someone who "had the luxury of learning to ski doing a season in Cham"... a whole one season. What would it be, if you would be skiing for 2 season... we could all pack our gear and burn it. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| frank4short wrote: |
| Think of it as like a cloud computing exercise. |
I think you mean Crowd Sourcing.
62.5% of skiers overestimate slope steepness by between 5.2 and 10.7%
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What foolish nonsense. Next it will be a thread "mine is bigger than yours". Who gives a poo-poo!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wow it changed my comment to poo poo! I promise I did not say that I SAID SHIIII!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidof, they don't if they have a school maths kit with them. Oh, hang on...
frank4short, by your calculations, how many people on the mountain at any one time will be carrying off-piste avalanche kit?
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| frank4short wrote: |
100% of skiers can put a pair of skis on & fall over
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You haven't been to the Mooserwirt (St Anton) at chucking out time have you?
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Roy Hockley,
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What foolish nonsense. Next it will be a thread "mine is bigger than yours". Who gives a poo-poo!
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But my poo-poo is bigger than yours 
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Gadge, My god, what did YOU eat!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DB wrote: |
| frank4short wrote: |
100% of skiers can put a pair of skis on & fall over
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You haven't been to the Mooserwirt (St Anton) at chucking out time have you? |
You are not drunk as long as you can lie on the snow without holding on to anything.
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Roy Hockley,
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Gadge, My god, what did YOU eat!!
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I'm in the top 1% of eaters!
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FAQ
