Equipment theft

A snowHead

A friend had his skis stolen at Val d'Isere last year costing him 600 euros. Given the lack of options to secure skis and snowboards I thought it was time to come up with something new.

I have been working on a new way of securing ski and snowboards which I have called the ram-lok. The website is at www.ram-lok.com. I would appreciate any feedback you have on the invention.

Thanks

David

A snowHead

Well done - over engineered solution to a problem which already has a similar idea which has never really become ubiquitous

http://www.skikey.com/

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I would be worried that after paying for a full days unlimited use that when I get to a rack there is no spare slots.

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Sorry, but I tend to agree with fatbob about over-engineering. It would have to be everywhere (or at least most places) for it to be something I'd want to pay for. For example, next week I'm going to be in the 3 Valleys. At various times I'll be stopping for lunch, hot chocolate, vin chaud, apres-ski in any of a number of different places. I don't know exactly where until I get there (stops are never that planned) so wouldn't want to waste money subscribing.

I have a ski key. It works great in north america where most places have racks that the locks fit. Alas this isn't the case in most European resorts.

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ram lok, As mentioned, over engineered. But if you can get it up and running why not. But how do you use it in multiple slots ?? Such as at different venues - if it opens multiple slots how do you stop other users opening your slot ??

It would be nice though, if you just paid a deposit for the electronic card, which was returned at the end of its use.

Resorts could market their theft free zones thus encouraging punters Smile

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Wouldn't get me signed up - I'd rather carry a portable lock that I can secure skis to a rack than pay a small bit for a rack that's already set up outside a bar or something. Locks cost about £20. I'd get that back in a couple of trips using a system that costs a couple of quid a day.

Looks way too overengineered too. It doesn't need to be that complex.

After all it is free

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daehwons,

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

rob@rar, Read it again... wink

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daehwons, Schuss in Boots, sorry, think I'm having a bit of a blonde moment. That and the champagne I've been drinking Embarassed

Rack.... Lock.... "KEY"

Pun....

You know it makes sense.

daehwons, ah, the penny has dropped! Sorry, particularly stupid this evening!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

rob@rar, You might want to take more chantilly with it... wink

A snowHead

The main thing in theft prevention is deterent.

Bike locks dont stop a theif stealing your bike, however if ther is one that is unlocked they would steal that first.

The same goes for skis. If yours looks tethered then they will chose another.

I went to google.co.uk and typed in "padded adjustable ski lock"

I found these
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Viper-X-snowboard-and-ski-lock/dp/B0014DBSGC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?tag=amz07b-21
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=ski+locks&tag=amz07b-21&index=aps&hvadid=4785394549&ref=pd_sl_1m3r2t44r5_b
and this in the sponsored links
http://www.snowsafe.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=208&gclid=CP25wduV9J8CFUIA4wodzWN3Yg

Ist rule of starting a business..... do your market research for compettitors and/or patents and/or cheap alternatives.

I am actually going to buy one of these.

Cheers
Bob

A snowHead

Since the exchange rate bombed, I can't afford to stop in restaurants any more, so theft is not a problem. Happy

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

There are thousands of skis and snowboards stolen in Europe each year. In Austria alone it is estimated that over 10,000 pairs of skis are stolen annually. Therefore it is clear that the current options to secure skis and snowboards are not working for everyone. If you find something that works for you then by all means use it but I am just trying to provide another option.

If you do a quick search of various blogs and even on this forum you will see a number of posts from skiers who have had their skis nicked after someone cut the thin wire of a retractable cable lock. That's after they managed to work out how on earth to secure their skis without any holes for the wire to go through.

The plan is to have the ram-loks spread throughout a resort. The individual lock will become operational once you scan your unique RFID tag. You can then secure your skis or snowboard and leave them as long as you wish. On your return simply re-scan your tag and the lock will automatically open. The lock will not open with any other RFID tag.

As it is the only device capable of securing both skis & poles or a snowboard it is more likely that you will find a vacant lock. In any event the number of skiers or boarders trying to use a rack at any one time will be limited by the capacity of the restaurant/cafe/bar outside which the rack will be located.

glasgow cyclops assumes that the ram-lok has cheaper alternates but if you paid for a weeks pass at 50p per day then it would only cost £3.50 and you could be sure that your skis or boards were safe in a robust lock without the possibility that they could be stolen or bashed by other equipment. A further option is that a pass for the locks can also be incorporated into your RFID lift pass.

Regards

David

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ram lok, the RFID will need to be in useable in a glove, not in a wristband. I already wear a watch whilst skiing, and I wouldn't want another thing to have to remember in the morning or cram up under my sleeve. My gloves have a pocket for a lift pass, and my pass lives in one of them for the week. I don't see how your proposition is any more over-engineered that SkiKey, but you're going to need power, aren't you?`

The point of a retractable lock is that you don't need holes through which to thread the cable.

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ram lok, OK to give you the benefit of the doubt - lets test your proposition. What's the unit cost of one of your racks? Who is going to fund that- you or the restaurant owner? Why should they? Thay aren't liable for theft. How many slope accessible restos in say 3V? 100+? Lets say you need 75% coverage before your racks become a realistic proposition? That's a lot of capital or a lot of persuading needed to even be functional in one resort.

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How about an iPhone GPS app that helps you locate the nearest rack?

After all it is free

ram lok, David - Whilst the idea of having a secure ski/board locking system is a good one I think you have a number of challenges in making this a success. Here's just a few that came to mind:

1 Are there existing patents that cover your idea? A quick patent search turned up a couple of hundred patents related to a search on "ski, lock, system". Most may not be relevant but a few certainly looked like they may.

2 The people with the problem, skiers/boarders that don't want to lose there gear, are not the people that have to buy the system. Your potential customers are the local restaurant owners in resort. What's in it for them? If I were a restaurant owner I might see the advantage of having such a system to give me an advantage over other restaurants; if everyone has them do I care? You either need to convince them individually of this or get a resort convinced. Do you have the connections and selling skills to do this?

3 You mention that restaurant capacity is the governing criteria. In my experience when restaurants are busy the ski racks are over flowing and lots of skis are just left on the ground.

4 A key part of your proposition seems to be that your pass will allow you to use racks anywhere on the mountain. This means you have to convince the entire resort to use your system. Why should I as resort owner install a system that gives you a monopoly? If you don't cover the entire resort how does your pricing research work?

5 Needing power to your system is to me a major negative. This makes design & installation much more challenging and means you'll need to do a load of extra testing. Wouldn't an initial offering of a converntional lock be OK to get started?

I work for a large global company and a key part of my job is working with teams developing and launching products to ensure they've addressed these sorts of questions. Even for a multi-billion dollar organisation the challenges of getting people to adopt new products and ways of doing things can be insurmountable.

Not trying to be negative but you'll have much more chance of success if you've thought of all of the above.
Good luck,
Gary

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Just to bring this back to skiing, is a falling skier a tumbler?

Just don't ask what percentage fall Toofy Grin

I don't want to get Picky here but if a skier falls and there are no other skiers about does he need a helmet?

You know it makes sense.

daehwons, If he falls too fast, he might end up with Rigor Mortice. Toofy Grin

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

So let me get a Handle on the situation, This would be bad I guess

A snowHead

Just a minute, what about brakes for your skis that have some kind of locking mechanism in there? Combined with a non-standard screw head on the binding, it's at least a significant deterrent for a thief.

Depends on whether you want to stop a thief stealing your stuff no matter what time constraint and no matter what tools are required, or whether you just want them to move on to the next pair on the rack.

Most of us will live with moving on to the next pair on the rack, so something visible and secure for the very short term is enough - like a thin cable that goes around the skis and a rack/tree/bench while we grab lunch for half an hour. The market for people who want something truly indestructible where they could leave their skis and boards outside for a month with thieves passing on an hourly basis is pretty ruddy small. In fact, I'd go as far as almost non-existent.

And for these reasons, I'm out.

A snowHead

This is a good idea and I can see the benefits. This would only appear to be an over engineered solution to those who can't get their head round the concept!!

Look easy to use. Compare that with what you have to do with skikey - easier I think.

Fatbob, I see what your saying re funding and risk but you can turn your argument around - you have a choice between 2 restaurants, one with and one without this system racked up on their wall. Everything else being equal, which one would you choose? The safe option! From the restaurant owner's point of view, installing one of these systems gives him an advantage over the restraunt either side of him. This = £££££

hyweljenkins - you're having issues re carrying an rfid tag but are happy to carry a retractible ski lock?! Puzzled

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

wossobama, where did I say that I carry a retractable lock?

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I got one of these in B+Q for 20quid:

http://www.masterlock.com/promos/python/8413python_lock.shtml

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

ram lok, I think many ski "thefts" are really just mistaken identity - especially where rental skis are concerned. Weary skiers wobbling out of mountain restaurants after a boozy lunch simply pick up skis that look like the ones they left outside. Often the binding is roughly right and they manage to ski off. I've encountered this countless times (like helping people with binding adjustment because they've found the other guy's skis where they thought their skis were left) and it happens everywhere. The rental shops get to sort it out later. As far as actual theft is concerned, IME this happens most in France and at the bigger busier resorts where the thief has a wide choice and can get away with it more easily. I ski mainly in Austria and USA and barely even bother to split skis - never had a problem in 35 years apart from once when skis nicked from hotel ski depot (but still got 'em back luckily). Other confusion is "pretend theft" where person wants to claim for a new pair on insurance. Police depts are so used to it they are suspicious of all reported thefts and can be cagey about writing out reports. Overall I think the solution you have come up with has less of a market than you might hope but maybe there are bigger better year-round applications like the bike market. Restaurants get busy enough, they don't care if your skis get nicked, it isn't their problem so why would they invest in a system?

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Thanks for your thoughts Gary. A patent application has been filed.

There is no doubt that launching a new product is extremely challenging but hopefully the idea will take off. After all we all used Hoovers before Dyson came along.

Bode swiller - surely then it makes sense that a system is available to make sure you only take your skis. If not simply to prevent financial loss but also to avoid the hassle of someone else mistakenly taking your skis and the safety aspect if the din settings are wrong.

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Ahh the Dyson defence. Don't think anyone is questioning your tech but commercially its hard to see how it stacks up and what advantage it offers over the skikey for greater complexity.

After all it is free

Why not just improve on what's out there - all you need to come up with is a lock which is adjustable length loop and can tighten around the centre of the skis between the two bindings - very very few criminals are determined enough to remove a binding to get a pair of skis over another set without any lock at all.

That lock then has a cable running to a loop at the other end. In order to secure them, you just find something that can't be moved (handrail, end of decking, ski rack) put the cable over it, pull the rest of the cable through the secure loop, and then the tight lock around bindings is on the other end.

A cable of 4-5mm thickness would be plenty, you'd need bolt croppers to get through that, and wouldn't be particularly heavy.

BTW, we didn't all use hoovers before Dyson came along. We used a huge range of different brands from people evolving the design. Dyson did a nice job of marketing a produt that was actually only very marginally better than the competition at the time. You could do the same. You don't have to change the design of the thing, you just have to make it a bit better at its job.

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Monium, there are already locks with adjustable lengths, with varying thickness wire.

Help!!

Equipment theft

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