 Poster: A snowHead
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I work in an international hotel in Turkey so I see both the best and worst of most nationalities (we have people from as many as 25 countries staying at one time!). I have grown to like Germans much more than when I came here, although you of course get the classic really snooty annoying ones. The French – as mentioned here – usually refuse to speak English even if they know it, on the grounds that they are not in England and therefore the locals should also know French… a fair point but, as pointed out, English will always be the common language between two other nationalities.
The Flemish-speaking Belgians nearly always speak English and French, while the Francophones rarely know French. Personally, I quite like the French on the whole, but it helps that I speak the language. I also speak German but can sometimes struggle with Austrian- and especially Swiss-German.
The Turks here generally like the English, though the guests that come here are mostly middle-class…. İf you go to package resorts such as Marmaris you will find the classic drunken tattoed Brits who give us all a bad name.
Every nationality – especially for some reason the Belgians – hate the Russians, mostly on the grounds that they are rude, miserable and often drunk. But the winner of the most hated travellers definitely goes to…. The Israelis! At least 95% of them speak almost perfect English, but they are by far the biggest whingers of all the nationalities I have encountered.
In the service industry there is absolutely no excuse to be rude to polite guests, and the worst service is often in places (such as ski resorts) where there is a never-ending stream of foreign tourists. The worst service I have ever come across was in Luzern in Switzerland, which was packed with tourists – I would have probably punched the waiter had I not been with my wife!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Red Leon, totally agreed, though I think that your "almost always" could be a slight exaggeration. The other week, I was on a tour coach on which the driver had turned the heating full on and, when one parent of a fractious, lightly roasted child asked for it to be turned down, the rep was totally unable to explain to the driver what was wanted. I thought that was pretty poor.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I work in an international hotel in Turkey so I see both the best and worst of most nationalities (we have people from as many as 25 countries staying at one time!). I have grown to like Germans much more than when I came here, although you of course get the classic really snooty annoying ones. The French – as mentioned here – usually refuse to speak English even if they know it, on the grounds that they are not in England and therefore the locals should also know French… a fair point but, as pointed out, English will always be the common language between two other nationalities.
The Flemish-speaking Belgians nearly always speak English and French, while the Francophones rarely know French. Personally, I quite like the French on the whole, but it helps that I speak the language. I also speak German but can sometimes struggle with Austrian- and especially Swiss-German.
The Turks here generally like the English, though the guests that come here are mostly middle-class…. İf you go to package resorts such as Marmaris you will find the classic drunken tattoed Brits who give us all a bad name.
Every nationality – especially for some reason the Belgians – hate the Russians, mostly on the grounds that they are rude, miserable and often drunk. But the winner of the most hated travellers definitely goes to…. The Israelis! At least 95% of them speak almost perfect English, but they are by far the biggest whingers of all the nationalities I have encountered.
In the service industry there is absolutely no excuse to be rude to polite guests, and the worst service is often in places (such as ski resorts) where there is a never-ending stream of foreign tourists. The worst service I have ever come across was in Luzern in Switzerland, which was packed with tourists – I would have probably punched the waiter had I not been with my wife!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| robinsrule wrote: |
The Flemish-speaking Belgians nearly always speak English and French, while the Francophones rarely know French. |
Not sure I understand that bit 
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Perhaps last word was meant to be Flemish?
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Or even English. 
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| snowball wrote: |
| Perhaps last word was meant to be Flemish? |
Or English, the ones I have known would really struggle. It led to my patch being split, so our French office looked after the mainly French speaking area of Belgium, and I stayed with looking after the Flemish.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Genius moment in a buffet restaurant the other day in the Alps. Some English guy ordered 'Steak and chips' from the chef without so much as a bonjour or a merci at the end. The chef returned 2 minutes later with a glorious steak on a plate accompanied by a stack of ready salted crisps, when the Brit lost his temper (in English I should add), the chef just shrugged and gave him a 'boff' before serving the next customer. I practically wet myself...
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| Quote: |
but the people whose attitude I can never understand are the TO reps who man the transfer coaches. IME they almost always speak such poor English that we (native English-speaking Brit tourists) can hardly understand their inane waffle and they speak absolutely no local lingo at all. If the coach driver doesn't speak quite good English (and why should he??), there's no way to communicate with the rep eg, 'how much longer will it take to reach resort?', 'can you go to hotel A before hotel B, please?', etc.
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Because most of them are just our of either school or university and all they want to do is ski. 99% will have no interest in being a rep, it's simply the first method they stumbled upon to afford to do a season. For £60 a week or less, unless they have interest in languages anyway, I don't think you could really expect them to learn* enough of the local language to be able to communicate the many many possible scenarios they *could* encounter at work, especially when in the vast majority of cases it will still be easier for them to commnicate with a whoever it is in English. I wouldn't really expect your rep/chalet host to speak much more of the local language than the average punter.
*Of course, there are also many seasonairres who do try and learn the language
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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monkey1, Quality i'd loved to have seen that.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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monkey1, ahaha, nice one.
In Chamonix I found speaking French pointless as everyone was English!
However back when I used to go to La Clusaz but ski on my own, I always made the effort to speak French, encouraged by my mum, I'm terrible but can manage bonjour etc and order stuff. I went into a restaurant and attempted to order chips, in French. The chef looked at me with a massive twinkly grin and said 'you would like one chip?!' I was very embarrassed and mumbled 'chips' but it was a right laugh and he looked pleased that I was trying. I was only about 13 at the time!
I just think a little bit of politeness in the local language never harms and is appreciated.
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crazy_skier_jules, Very true and even if you struggle with the lingo a smile and body language go a long way 
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You know it makes sense.
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Last time I was in Chamonix I had just been skiing one of the Vallee Blanche variants so was still wearing my harness. I went in a ski shop to buy sunglasses to ski in and the assistant said "Ah an English climber" and gave me a discount. Very nice; I didn't disabuse her.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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monkey1,
Clearly the chef spoke North American English, which has more speakers than British English, so tough on the hapless customer, I say 
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Poster: A snowHead
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dmac442, French call potato crisps 'chips' .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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frank4short, you need to spend more time abroad and rid yourself of that guilt complex, dude. This isn't about English rudeness. The Dutch are far ruder than the English generally, and Germans are very direct. Newly rich Eastern Europeans can be very rude and crude. Compared to other Europeans, the English are really quite polite and civilized when not drunk and face painted.
Your comment about market forces and about English as the clearly dominant international language - these are facts of life and universal, not limited to any country. There is of course no right to treat anyone anyhow or speak to anyone in any language. There are however realities that exist by virtue of economics or history, some are fluffy and nice and all politically correct 'n all and some ain't. Get over it. I work in a service industry too.
There are enough posters on this thread who have the same bad impression of the French, and not of the Austrians, Italians, Greeks, Spaniards or even the Dutch or Germans. Most of those who disagree are either French residents, part time French residents, Francophone Francophiles or cheese eating surrender monkey French apologists like you 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slikedges, so why do you ski in France when you loathe both it and the rest of Europe's population so much? There's always North America if you can't cope with the idea of foreign languages.
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| Quote: |
slikedges, so why do you ski in France when you loathe both it and the rest of Europe's population so much? There's always North America if you can't cope with the idea of foreign languages.
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Did he say that? Stop putting words into peoples mouths!
If a Hungarian goes to Austria and belligerently orders in Hungarian, then thats a bit iffy cos he should acknowledge the fact that the staff probably doesnt speak Hungarian. If he ordered in English youd say thats fine, he is simply using the default international language.
Why then is it significantly ruder for an Englishman to speak the international language just because that same language happens to be his mother tongue???
And i hate to ruffle a few "im such a goody goody tourist" feathers but mumbling "Zwei mal grosses Bier and eine Paar Bernerwurstl mit Pommes" in a thick Geordie/Cockney/Brummy (etc) accent doesnt neccessarily make you some textbook flagbearer of Anglo-German/French (etc) relations! Just a bit less lazy than those who dont...
SP8rs!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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shiva_71, I don't agree that English is necessarily the 'default international language', and insisting that this is so is initself arrogant.
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Oh dont be daft, of course it is!
If an Italian company is doing business with a Spanish company, the Italian dont speak Spanish, the Spanish dont speak Italian, what language are they gonna use? Hindi?
Im an English teacher, for my not inconsiderable sins, and teach people in all sectors, finance, law, pharmaceuticals etc and if you asked them "What is the international business language?", im 100% sure 100% of them would say English...
Just because thats our mother tongue, well hey, thats way the historical and political cookie has crumbled and theres no shame in that...makes life easier for us (and keeps me in a job!)
How long have you in France? 
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shiva_71, the fact that English is the language most commonly used in a business context doesn't mean you can expect any level of fluency from minimum-wage workers in tourist resorts. Which is what we're on about.
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Lizzard, you are twisting and turning like a twisty turny thing
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
shiva_71, the fact that English is the language most commonly used in a business context doesn't mean you can expect any level of fluency from minimum-wage workers in tourist resorts. Which is what we're on about.
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Aye, cant disagree with you there...and i suppose equally you cant expect any level of fluency from minimum-intelligence tourists! (Not that that applies to any SHs,no no no 
All i can say is that i speak to a lot of non-Brits about their impressions of England/the English and nearly everyone says what a polite and well mannered bunch we are, and i for one take a lot of pride in maintaining this perception...whether that extends to gangs of wasted brit skiers stubling,flailing and yelling their way down Dorfstrasse in Saalbach at 3am is another question...
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Lizzard, don't be such a twit.
Even in diplomacy the French are currently launching their last ditch-doomed-to-fail attempt to stop French ceasing to be important. English is also the default language of travel. Even if you have fairly decent language skills once you are detected as an english speaker people will often switch into that. The only people who seem significantly resentful of this hegemony are the French. I cannot say that I blame them - or that I think this homogenisation is a good thing, but c'est la vie...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rayscoops,
1. English is the language most commonly used in international business dealings, 3* plus hotels etc. You can expect to speak it in these contexts.
2. This is not the case when it comes to smaller locally owned businesses such as mountain restaurants. If you get to speak English in these situations it's a bonus. It would be polite not to make the assumption that you can speak your own language and be immediately understood.
3. Describing any nationality as generally 'rude' (or attributing to its members any other characteristic merely on the grounds of their nationality) is a bit stupid.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
3. Describing any nationality as generally 'rude' (or attributing to its members any other characteristic merely on the grounds of their nationality) is a bit stupid.
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I dont categorise people as rude on the grounds of their nationality, i do so on the grounds of their behaviour:
Barging on public transport before people have got off: rude
Not even muttering even "Danke" when youve left a 50c tip for no goddamn reason whatsoever except that some grumpy bird has poured a beer and slammed it on the bar:rude
Making a beeline for you and bumping into you only to turn round and give YOU gyp:rude
Ordering a leberkasesemmel before someone whos clearly been waiting longer than you:rude
All stuff that happens 10 times a day here. Having said that...:
Smashing an OAPs face with a brick to rob their pension money to buy crack: extremely rude...
So yes, i subscribe to the "well if you dont like it you can always..."...Austria is a lovely place and apart from the grumpy old Viennese s0ds, i enjoy a good life here.
Anyway, way off topic, can we get back to bickering about arrogant French people?
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Also, i think its relevant, im reminded of my old A-level English teacher:
Me: Miss Bennett, you always generalise...
Miss Bennett: Oh come on, everybody generalises!
Classic!
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You know it makes sense.
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First time I got on the tube in Vienna I thought someone had died (miserable gits).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hmmm, can you be sure someone hadnt died? i can picture some grumpy old Wiener(in) moaning at a corspe, couldnt you have an aneurysm somewhere else, very inconsiderate, youre blocking my way, etc...
Bless em!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lol even the Vienese admit that they're whingers though!
Lizzard, whether everyone speaks English fluently is irrelevant to whether English is the default international language. Put a russian, a german, a frenchman, a spaniard, an italian and a few scandies in a room, and English is without a doubt the language they'll be most likely to be able to communicate in, and probably the first they'll try, even if they only know a few phrases. And I think that in most of the 'main' European countries, the majority of people under the age of let's say 50 will speak at least a couple of phrases of English - languages are a pretty integral part to their education systems, it's jsut a shame more importance isn't put on it in Britain!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And dont forget in deepest darkest Oberunterhintergoerggl, these inbred mountain bumpkins cant even speak GERMAN!  !
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Here is a very much more droll and kindly version of this thread.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Helen Beaumont,
I didn't realise that. I would have called them "les croustilles" but I see that's Canadian French and would no doubt cause raised eyebrows or smiles in France. Fortunately, I don't eat them (unless they're placed in front of me) so I don't need to call them anything.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| shiva_71 wrote: |
Did he say that? Stop putting words into peoples mouths!
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Thanks, man!
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I can certainly confirm that saying bonjour, asking if they speak english and apologising for my poor french does wonders for receiving good service in bars, restaurants and ski shops. The rest of the exchanges always take place in english with smiles all round and, if you're lucky (as I was), an off-menu Mercury pinot noir to go with your steak. Happy days.
I suspect that the chap who got crisps with his steak also had the worse cut of meat chosen for him, at best.... You reap what you sew my friends.
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| Quote: |
shiva_71, I don't agree that English is necessarily the 'default international language', and insisting that this is so is initself arrogant.
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If 2 arabic speakers from different parts of the muslim world meet they will often speak in english as it is easier than trying to make their different versions of the same language work. Even if there isn't an englishman with them. This is at least true among academics. If that doesn't make it the default language I don't know what would
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's not arrogant to say that English is not the "default international language". It is. I have been to many countries where the guiding has been in the local language and in English, even though the majority of us being guided were not. The French, German, Scandies, Chinese etc expected it. Apparently, if you are traveling abroad English is essential.
When staying in Hinterglemm, a couple of weeks ago, the lone Russian at the table opposite and the lone German at the table next to him spent all week, after a shaky multi-tongued start, conversing in their only common language. Yes, you've guessed it, English!
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My daughter always laughs at me, because I always try to speak French when we go to France, but when I have forgotten what the word is, " apparantly " I say it in English, with a French accent! 
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FAQ
It is a strange old world we live in 