 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
just to introduce myself I'm (probably) an advanced intermediate (confident on anything pisted), somewhat overweight & in his mid-forties who is now trying to tackle off-piste and moguls.
Whilst I can get down black mogul runs I am lacking in technique and I'm pretty much making it up as I go along, not having had anything in the way of instruction. I've decided to get some instruction when I go next in a couple of weeks but was wondering if there was anything you could recommend in terms of videos, books etc. to get it into my head before I go & to let me practice a bit before a lesson?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Depending on how much you want to ski them then flexibility (knees to chest) and general core fitness should be worked on leading up to your lessons
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Depending on how much you want to ski them then flexibility (knees to chest) and general core fitness should be worked on leading up to your lessons
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I do judo twice a week to work on core fitness & flexibility & go jogging to keep the belly down. Are there any specific exercises you could recommend? It won't make much difference for this year but it might help me next year.
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Well, firstly, keep contact with the snow. Its your only way of keeping speed and directional control.
To do this you need to be highly active with your lower body & legs - absorb the bumps by flexing knees & ankles, keep contact on the other side by extending.
I have been experimenting with turning anywhere I want, not trying to follow peaks or troughs as they are often uneven - make your own rythum (sp?) - and it sometimes all comes together.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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sukuinage, if you're reasonably fit and supple, and have good technique skiing bumps shoulnd't require different fitness from anything else. As you're taking instruction - which is great - you may find you need extra endurance (thighs, core) as you learn, but afterwards it's no harder.
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sukuinage,
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| wondering if there was anything you could recommend in terms of videos, books etc. to get it into my head before I go & to let me practice a bit before a lesson? |
There are umpteen different 'bumps' techniques and theories, but I'd suggest thinking about practising skiddy, short radius arcs, building to a fast (and maybe irregular) rhythm. That should fit pretty much with whatever your Instructor decides to focus on.
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Judo will be good training for when it goes wrong!!!!!!
For skiing I try and work the "ski leg" muscles a few weeks before, even a few days before will help if you do about an hour a day or just generally whe you have 5 mins spare. I have found if I can get my muscles to "feel the burn" in a few mins a day or a few times a day when I start skiing I overcome the stiffness usually encountered on the second day after overdoing the first day.
easy to do - bend down to skiing position, flex down back up and then I alternate down and up on 1 leg
or if you sit at a chair all day, scoot forward and take your weight on your feet, dont stand up but just flex muscles
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There are umpteen different 'bumps' techniques and theories
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Just to be awkward, I'm going to disagree. There are umpteen wrong ways but only one right way - 
There is an excellent book - but I can't recall the title and it's packed away in a box. I'll try and find it.
Here you go, funny enough it's from the folks mentioned above. http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Instructors-Never-About-Skiing/dp/142086159X?tag=amz07b-21
I found it really good and refining my technique. I see no reason why it wouldn't be just as good as you start out.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Just to be awkward, I'm going to disagree. There are umpteen wrong ways but only one right way -
There is an excellent book - but I can't recall the title and it's packed away in a box. I'll try and find it.
Here you go, funny enough it's from the folks mentioned above. http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Instructors-Never-About-Skiing/dp/142086159X?tag=amz07b-21
I found it really good and refining my technique. I see no reason why it wouldn't be just as good as you start out.
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Thanks, that's just the sort of thing I'm after.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks to all those who've already given hints & tips & please feel free to keep posting. I'm not going till the 12th.
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I found the advice to ski down the front of the mogul was the best for me (or as lampbus, said, keep in contact with the snow). It doesn't work on all shapes but it's a useful way to start.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just come back from Baqueira where it was all bumps so I got plenty of practice.
The skiers I was with had plenty of experience and gave me one key hint. Use the downhill shoulders of the bumps to slow down as that is where the soft snow is and the easiest place to slow down without using too much leg strength.
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but I'd suggest thinking about practising skiddy, short radius arcs, building to a fast (and maybe irregular) rhythm
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That seemed to be the way to go in practice. Ideally pole plants just in front of the top of the bump you are going to skid round. Turn and slide down the downhill side of the bump until you get to the trough when you repeat the process in the opposite direction.
Once the light improved (we had clouds and flat light most of the time) it all came together and I could get downhill with more style than before and less muscle fatigue.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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An instructor I did bumps with once told us to think about "3S" Stab the bump (with your pole) Swivel round it then Scrape down the back. Very useful, I think, and I manage to get it right about 1 bump in 10. On a good day.  There aren't too many bumps round here and I know very well where they are. And go somewhere else, usually.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
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There are umpteen different 'bumps' techniques and theories
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Just to be awkward, I'm going to disagree. There are umpteen wrong ways but only one right way - |
There may be a right way to ski them but it only matters to be able to ski them how you want to ski them.
also, whatever "way" you decide is the correct way for you don't stop there, at least learn the basics of the other ways. When skiing bumps you may ski correctly for a half dozen or so bumps but when it goes wrong being able to keep going and recover is where its at.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sukuinage wrote: |
Hi,
just to introduce myself I'm (probably) an advanced intermediate (confident on anything pisted), somewhat overweight & in his mid-forties who is now trying to tackle off-piste and moguls.
Whilst I can get down black mogul runs I am lacking in technique and I'm pretty much making it up as I go along, not having had anything in the way of instruction. I've decided to get some instruction when I go next in a couple of weeks but was wondering if there was anything you could recommend in terms of videos, books etc. to get it into my head before I go & to let me practice a bit before a lesson? |
More practice = better technique.
Find a steep black slope with big moguls. They must be big.
Ski down it.
Repeat over and over again.
Every minute. Every hour. Every day.
For atleast 5 days. Preferably 10 days.
Enjoy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sukuinage, When I started to try to ski moguls I found it a lot easier in softish snow. It also helps to have a bit of speed - rhythm is key - but of course that does rather up the ante
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Ideally pole plants just in front of the top of the bump you are going to skid round.
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I thought you were supposed to poleplant on the back of the moguls?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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clarky999, no, defo pole plant into the bumps face, then turn round the shoulder and skid down into the trough whereupon comes the difficult/athletic bit... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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clarky999, do you mean uphill or downhill end of the bump? Or in the middle (sort of where the nipple would be )?
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obviously the multiple methods are surfacing
i was always told to use the uphil face to slow down on, and certainly dont slide down the downhill face - you get away with it on nice small regular moguls, but as soon as all teh snow has been scraped off and they start getting big and irregular, then you'll soon get very knackered sliding into troughs - you're better working on skiing/carving if poss, through the troughs and sliding/skidding as little as possible, - obviously a lot easier to say than do 
If they're soft, then stick the ski on edge and ski straight through them - the little kids technique that seems to serve them very well !!!!
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Shouldn't you be picking a route between the bumps (easier said than done mind) or am I not reading the posts right  So you use the faces of the moguls to a) plant your pole and b) as a brake
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The thing that really transformed my bumps skiing, was being taken back on to the piste, taught to ski compression turns, then taking them back into the bumps. Was a real lightbulb moment.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| The thing that really transformed my bumps skiing, was being taken back on to the piste, taught to ski compression turns, then taking them back into the bumps. Was a real lightbulb moment. |
yes, very helpfull
Read here
http://www.j2ski.com/ski_technique/Moguls/4_Compression_Turns.html
On some pisted runs when conditions are right you will find it resembles one long mogul directly at the side where the piste markers are. When you practice on this 'hump' doing short turns over it will give you the feeling and movement(extension and compression) that you need to use on part of the mogul turn. If you get comfortable turning at speed and then control the speed with compression then you should do better in the bumps
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daehwons, I should probably take the pic and taper the top for perspective into the page, just like a first-person view.
I'm off to get the skis ready for many-anna, tho.
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You know it makes sense.
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andyph,
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do you mean uphill or downhill end of the bump?
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I mean on the downhill side.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
yes, very helpfull
Read here
http://www.j2ski.com/ski_technique/Moguls/4_Compression_Turns.html
On some pisted runs when conditions are right you will find it resembles one long mogul directly at the side where the piste markers are. When you practice on this 'hump' doing short turns over it will give you the feeling and movement(extension and compression) that you need to use on part of the mogul turn. If you get comfortable turning at speed and then control the speed with compression then you should do better in the bumps
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Thanks,
I think some advice on how to practice on the piste is really useful.
I can see that I'll soon be an expert...
...in theory 
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Poster: A snowHead
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AndrewBailey, cool, where were the bumps in Baqueira ? They usually piste everything out, except for a line under the Pla de Baqueira.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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david@mediacopy, hmmm, I think there's only one way - anything else is just skiing on a bumpy surface. I know you've read the thread before but here's a splendid description...from David Murdoch
"In response to rob@rar's question in SnowHot's "Ah-Ha" moment thread, I though I'd expand on one of mine for comment (and/or ridicule). Caveats 1. I am sure this is not the only technique, it just works for me and follows an "Ah-Ha!" moment. 2. I am not an instructor, nor would I want to be seen to pass myself off as one.
Bumps are one of my things. They can offer a great challenge when there's not many other challenges available and I reckon there isn't much better to watch than a good skier zippering a line.
This was around 1996. I was/am reasonably competent, I could hold the fall-line in regular bumps but mostly through momentum and strength. Anyway I went out for a "tune-up" with one of the best instructors I have met (in limited experience of instruction) - Thierry Copreau, ESF Morzine.
Anyway, the "Ah-Ha!" moment was when he asked, "Show me how to turn on one bump. After all, if you can't turn on one, how can you expect to turn on many?"
The lightbulb goes on, "Ah-Ha!". A good question.
Now, I'd read my Sunday Times "We learned to ski" section on "Avalement" turns in bumps and believed that that was what I was doing. But I hadn't considered its deconstruction into a single turn.
So, with TC supporting my pole (poles are almost necessary for this) we set about doing one single turn on one single bump.
Preparation
Start with your skis on the apex of one bump with your skis pointing across the fall line.
Skis together
One of the few times where this is necessary. The idea being that one essential element is that your skis can swivel as one on the apex of the bump.
Avalement
Literally, to swallow. You bring your legs up as you crest the apex so that the bump is completely absorbed by them. Design faults in the human nervous system mean that until you get used to it, this feels as though you are grossly over-absorbing. In most people I observe skiing, absorption is happening at maybe 20% of what's required.
Fluidity comes with practice. For this single turn though I think you ideally want to be crouched to the point that as you pass over the bump and extend into the trough, your hips follow a straight line down the hill.
Anticipation
The idea is that you position yourself so that as your skis slide forward and pass over the apex, they naturally rotate on the top of the bump and you extend into the trough with your skis pointing the other way. In order for them to naturally change direction like this you need to anticipate the turn by extending the arm on the side you want to turn to, out to that side. You don't want to rotate your torso (if you're starting from the fall line) but because your skis are already pointing across the fall line and you are extending your arm in the opposite direction, you end up a little like a wound up spring, ready to trigger the rotation.
Poles
Almost essential. Your inside of the turn pole (held in your extended arm) is planted just beside your inside of turn boot.
So for the exercise...which involves a little commitment from both the instructor and the instructee.
Instructor supports the pole and allows the instructee to angulate a little edge into the bump.
Instructee pushes forward a tiny little bit - and provided all the parts are properly lined up - naturally sweeps down the front of the bump extending into the trough and with skis rotated in opposite direction.
Ah-Ha!
A little edge set, more absorption and repeat in opposing directions as required until knackered."
From this thread, http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=726971&highlight=bumps#726971
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 2-02-10 19:55; edited 1 time in total
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My friend is pretty good at the moguls and his advice was to head straight down and finish each turn, even stop on each turn. Don't traverse and faff looking for a line as you'll never learn the rhythm and it messes up the moguls! Take it slow, get the movement sorted and gradually speed it up. Most people think they have it and head down about five in a quick rhythm then go too fast, lean back and get airborne then game over! When you see people doing it properly, their upper body barely moves but their knees are bouncing up and down the peaks and troughs like a steam engine! Just practicing short radius truns on a steep piste helps over exageratting the up and down movement.
And make sure you have an unlined jacket with pit zips!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| properjob wrote: |
| Don't traverse and faff looking for a line as you'll never learn the rhythm and it messes up the moguls! |
This is part of learning to ski them though. You need to be confident that when you pick up too much speed (early on when learning) you can turn across and "bounce" a few moguls and loose the speed. Its been said a few times that non-competition moguls are not uniform and you may get at best a dozen in a row near the same, the next few may be unskiable (by you at current stage of learning), the choice is crash or turn out and live to ski another run. The important thing is to regain speed control and continue within the least number of traversed moguls rather than come to a complete stop.
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properjob, naw, disagree, take air off every other one.
Your mate isn't wrong, but I refer to the notes above. If you can turn properly on one single bump, you can just link 'em together - line or no line, works every time. Then you can ski wherever you like.
Short rad turn practice helps a lot too as you say.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gryfon, yes, absolutely.
But also remember that you need enough freedom of independent movement to allow an edge check/swipe if necessary - so you don't want to lock your legs together...
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david@mediacopy, The bumps were pretty much everywhere by the end of the day! We skied Mirador, Ta Argulls, Pla Baqueira, Cara Nord, Luis Arias, Vista Beret, Dera Reina on Fri & Sat and all were bumpy. This might be down to the tons of fresh snow that fell every evening and was then skied on.
The bigger issue was the lack of visibility and the flat light which meant we couldn't see the bumps until we were on top of them.
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repeat in opposing directions as required until knackered
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It doesn't take long.!
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FAQ
