 Poster: A snowHead
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i haven't had a new board in years so I'm not entirely sure if i need to wax it before I go away!?
any advice would be much appreciated!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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it won't hurt  Nothing worse than a board lacking wax I find, it's the recipie for hopping or walking
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't what sort of wax you're gonna do.
If full hot wax,i'm not sure about the de wax.
Personally all i did is bought a sponge on instant wax & polished it off after.
I can't see any reason why you couldn't go straight on with a hot wax & skip dewaxing,but i'm sure somebody'll correct me if i'm wrong.
Good luck
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If the edges have been done then you might need to "detune" them at aeach end of the board otherwise you may find you catch an edge remarkably easy. Alternativley the edges may not be sharp at all. Its a question you need to ask from where you bought it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yep if you get it from a shop, they should prepare it for you. One board I bought (an F2) was waxed but painflully draggy on slushy snow until I waxed it myself. All others have been fine for a few days.
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You are probably good on the factory wax for about 3 days of riding. After this do a hot wax. Or you could just do a hot wax now - it won't hurt.
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| Simon (Mr T) wrote: |
I can't see any reason why you couldn't go straight on with a hot wax & skip dewaxing,but i'm sure somebody'll correct me if i'm wrong.
Good luck |
I dont see anything wrong with that either, though I do give my skis a token scrape just to get the lumpier bits of wax off. Works for me!
Some advice about waxing and when it's needed below:
(stolen from ttips)
'A ski in severe need of waxing begins to look white and even mildly fuzzy on the base (if it's the standard black p-tex base material). If the bases are white or other colors it can be hard to see this. But you can feel it by running a finger or fingernail along the base. The p-tex literally gets rough. Not from specific scratches from rocks and things; it actually gets rough on a fine scale all over its surface area.
Before the bases ever get rough enough to feel by hand, they start to appear a little white or chalky, which is really the roughness beginning on a very fine scale.
But if you see that you're several ski days late for waxing. The skis have already been having much more friction against the snow than they could be. So how can you tell when to wax if the visual indicator doesn't start until several ski days past the point? You have to experience a pair of well waxed skis and feel the difference, and then you'll be able to feel whether your skis need wax or not every time you get on them.
I remember a time when I didn't care and wasn't very sensitive to whether my skis needed waxing. I later found out this was only because I had never actually experienced a well waxed ski. A ski needs to be hot waxed around 8 (count 'em, eight) times, skiing it for a day in between each time, before it's really saturated with wax. Until most or all of those first 8 hot waxings have gone by you really don't feel the full potential of the ski.
I pretty much wax my skis every time I ski a full day, though by the later end of the season I'm lazy enough to let them go two or three ski days in between.
Someone (or many) will surely post that it's no big deal, "ahh, just go skiing, man" -- and they probably haven't seen the full potential of their own skis either, maybe never waxed them more than once a month or more than three or four times in the lifetime (or their ownership) of the ski. I really try to get people over this.
Buying a well-made pair of skis and not waxing them, or not waxing them enough, is like not putting oil in your sportscar's engine. A completely insane thing to do. Imagine if the people on some sportscar discussion forum told you "ahh, don't worry about the oil, it doesn't make that much difference, you should be spending that time driving."
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I believe most boards have a basic wax job when you buy em. I know Burtons are.
However, regarding the point of dewaxing, if you do decide to wax your new board, I would suggest de waxing just in case.
It seems logical to me that if the board still has wax in it, it won't take up the new wax. I could be wrong but I don't think I am. Remember, the wax is being absorbed by the base and subsequently scraped of again. I think waxing a board without dewaxing is a pointless exercise.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jonpaul, I agree. As with any DIY project, preparation helps give a much better end result. Old wax often holds dirt as well that has been picked up off the slopes (even if only on a microscopic scale) and so getting rid of the old used wax is always a good idea. With a new board, that should not be a problem but I'm not sure whether you could really get the base to absorb more wax if trying to put more hot wax on top of the factory wax. You'd probably just end up putting it on and scraping it off - all the work but little effect.
I am not sure that I'd be dedicated enough to give a wax after every day, as advocated by the guy quoted above, but i reckon that I notice a down-turn in performance after about 4 or 5 days. Obviously this is dependant on snow conditions. On powder days, the wax gets little abuse and you'd not notice any drop off in performance anyway.
Try flicking soem water droplets on a newly waxed base (or look at the effect of melting snow on that base) and you'll see that the water beads up and runs off very easily. On a base that needs waxing, this beading and run-off effect is much less pronounced and you will see that the water droplets are encountering more friction. If you observe this a few times whe new and after 4 days etc, you will be able to tell whether the base needs waxing just by conducting that test.
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Also a point regarding properties of wax and not dewaxing before waxing:
Get a candle and drip wax onto a surface and let in solidify. Now repeat this some time later but this time on top of the previous wax. Notice how they have actually formed two seperate layers and do not belong to the same "mass" (as it were) even though one was molten when applied.
I imagine this theory applies to what would happen in a base if you did the same thing i.e. not dewaxing before waxing. You would now have two layers in the base as oppossed to just one. The two wax layers would seperate very easily (as above) and in the case of a board/ski base would probably result in a wax job sooner. Pointless exercise. I actually don't know if this is true but I'd hesitate a guess that it is cos thats how wax in general behaves.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jonpaul, i suspect that you may be partly right and that they would not bond very well (especially if the waxes are slightly different, perhaps?) but if you have the iron over the wax then you should be melting the old wax as well as the new, and so they should bond to an extent. But i know what' you're saying and i would rather get rid of the old wax first.
After all, it doesn't take long - a bit of a spray with a de-waxer, some elbow grease with a rag and leave to dry for 30 minutes
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Good point. Agree wi you about dewaxing. Poooaaarrr! Just farted and it stinks!!
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I disagree about dewaxing the factory wax. There is not going to be any dirt in the wax if the board is new. Furthermore, because the wax already in the board gets heated up quite a bit, it should mix perfectly well with the new wax coming in. Try dripping liquid hot wax from two candles into each other - I'm sure it will mix very well. It is fairly commom for people to put 2 or more different types of waxes on a board/ski before using it for special purposes (seems like over-obsessing about your equiptment to me though  ).
As for the idea that the pores of the board are already all full from the factory wax:
- If this is the case, then there is no need to wax in the first place
- If this is not the case, then there is still room for more wax to be absorbed
In either case, no need to de-wax. The purpose of the spray cleaner before waxing is simply that - to clean the base, not get old wax out. But a new board's base is already clean.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ponder wrote: |
| The purpose of the spray cleaner before waxing is simply that - to clean the base, not get old wax out. |
Not sure that this is the case. For a start, my de-waxing spray has "De-waxer" in big letters on the label  . Secondly, when i rub the board with a clean rag after using the spray, wax comes off onto the rag, even when the board is desperately in need of a waxing. So I would say that the spray that i have certainly does strip out the old wax from the p-tex.
But I'd agree that if the factory wax is a decent wax job, there should be no need to do it yourself for the first use. Whether that is the case will depend on the make. From my experience of using new Burton boards this year, I know that their wax job is perfectly good.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hmm, I always just use citrus cleaners. Never heard of a specific de-waxing spreay before.
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Poster: A snowHead
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ponder, I use this de-waxer before I apply the new wax.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yawn
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh well,somebodys right.
I just wacked some instant wax on my new board,& most of its still on there after a week's use.Though i'd imagine i'll redo it again before the next trip.And once thats over,i'll give it a damn good dewax & hotwax for its summer hibernation. 
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Personally I wouldn't really suggest sray on or rub on waxes - the whole point of waxing is that it gets absorbed into the pores of the p-tex, but doesn't stay on top. P-tex absorbs much better when it is hot, and also absorbs liquids better than solids. Hot waxes aren't only good because they last longer - they're faster too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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agreed. rub ons are good for top ups during the afternoon on dry areas of the board but i'd never rely on it for a week. Not good the the base at all
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Everyone to their own.Can't see how it can make things any worse.....
Worked for me 
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What a thread! In reality you never have to wax a board, the wax is there to enhance the interface between the board and the snow and how well water and gas molecules form the shear and glide surface between the two. That’s why you have to clean the wax out of all those little microgrooves with a fine stiff brush (how many of you do that?)
The type of wax , how well the excess is removed and the snow temp determines ONLY how well the board slides and at what speed this works most efficiently. So where wax has a significant effect is in powder, wet slush and dirty (dusty) snow
If you’re not interested in outright speed and you ride fresh piste then it’s not that much of an issue and I’ve found the best system for me is a weekly clean with a good general-purpose citrus based cleaner and then a daily spray or wipe with a liquid Teflon treatment.
I do keep my bases in good repair and I do use a ‘Scotch pad’ to maintain the base texture and a heat gun to remove the ‘feathers’ but modern base materials are nothing like the porous soft plastics of 10 years ago. So don’t worry that much about it.
But if you’re riding in a lot of dirty snow then a good coat of wax will reduce base wear but you need to strip and replace it every couple of days.
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My main reason for waxing is so that I don't get stuck and have to unstrap on the flats.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ponder, try the Teflon products 
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I kinda like hot waxing my board  I do it the night before riding, and it gets me kinda psched up for the next day.
I find hot wax to be faster (faster on the snow, not faster to apply) than rub-on. I haven't tried the spray on teflon stuff.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ponder, there are several superbly funny things about this thread.
- Darksiders obsessing about wax, only not knowing how to do obsession right. 
- "Dewaxing" makes me giggle, since it leaves solvent residue in the surface. Learn to hot scrape unless you're trying to put LF or CH wax on top of HF, or unless you ride on pine needles/road tar.
- Rub-ons : ask any nordic skier- downhillers don't rub anywhere hard enough or long enough. 
- Swix, who should know what they're on about, don't even trouble to tell snowboarders how to obsess correctly, but rather save it for the sport and racing skiers:
http://www.swixschool.no/web/index2.html
PS for ponder since he's at somewhat rainy Whistler: if you're using CH08 or CH10 for changeable conditions, try using the spray 'teflon' as an underlay for the hot wax, then brush some in on top, polish in with blue nylon. It used to be called the Felix process; I can't seem to find the original inventor's notes online anymore.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, Aye, there's nowt like polishing off your tool with a nylon cloth. It's always fun watching the rub-on crowd smear the bottom, leap on and then wonder why they're grinding to a halt on the greens. 
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| comprex wrote: |
| Darksiders obsessing about wax, only not knowing how to do obsession right. |
I find your tone rather patronising. The fact that we are darksiders is irrelevant. There is obviously a lot of misinformation about the waxing process and if we don't know the best way to do it, that probably makes us the same as 98% of the snowsports community - skiers and boarders.
| comprex wrote: |
| "Dewaxing" makes me giggle, since it leaves solvent residue in the surface. Learn to hot scrape |
I did once read about putting on new wax on top of old and then scraping it off while still warm - is this what you mean? A proper description would be nice rather than a mocking tone of "I know what to do - you don't".
| comprex wrote: |
| Rub-ons : ask any nordic skier- downhillers don't rub anywhere hard enough or long enough. |
Sorry, all of my nordic skiing mates are not available at the moment. Please enlighten us as to what you mean. (Although I've never used rub-ons except to add a top up for one day)
| Masque wrote: |
| In reality you never have to wax a board |
Could you please explain? Your earlier post doesn't make sense to me. From experience, I know that a newly waxed board goes faster on piste. Why should boards be any different from skis? If you don't need to wax boards unless going in powder, wet slush or dirty snow, why do people wax skis when they are not going in powder, wet slush or dirty snow?
| Masque wrote: |
| If you’re not interested in outright speed and you ride fresh piste then it’s not that much of an issue |
eh? Isn't everyone interested in speed? That is certainly why I would like to wax properly! If I wasn't interested in speed, I wouldn't do snowsports at all.
I fully accept that there are many things that I don't know about servicing a board but if I've been misinformed, this is because the ski industry has misinformed me - as it has the majority of recreational skiers.
So then our wise sages, if we are incorrect, tell us what we should be doing - don't just snigger like schoolboys that know a secret!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tony Lane, check the Swix school site through the link I posted. Hot waxing, hot scraping, rub-on application, corking, brushes nylon horsehair, brass, bronze - all information on their use and why the specific tool was devised available from the wax manufacturers. The alpine-ski 'sport' or alpine-ski 'race' categories are far better documented, and include most of the methods I speak of.
Other than the Swix school website, Toko has exquisite tech manuals, available in soft cover or pdf format:
http://www.reliableracing.com/wintersportscatalog/downloads.cfm
All available for the asking or nominal fee to cover printing. You don't have to rely on my 'knowledge' or that of anyone else with dubious credentials.
As to 'Darksiders' being irrelevant, well, as I said already, Swix doesn't seem to think snowboarders need any of the detailed information so they only put it on the skiing site. I absolutely agree with your one point to Masque: they need not be different (except wider). The prejudice, however, is two fold even you'll admit: snowboarders aren't expected to spend skier-thick wads of cash on supporting gear such as holddown clamps and wax irons, nor are they expected to subscribe to mainstream culture (exemplified in this case as 'proper waxing').
If you look in Toko's nordic tech manuals, one essential difference in rub-on application will come clear: the nordic skiers will rub their waxes in with artificial cork thereby friction-heating the local base area. Believe me, it takes sharp, vigorous, rapid polishing to work in Arctic wax to where it will polish smooth, almost to match a bantam-weight boxer's speed bag workout. The rub-on procedure shown on the Swix snowboard site doesn't even begin to compare.
Patronising? Perhaps. An alternative explanation would be that I didn't want you to accept anything merely on my authority (or that of any other poster), rather to go to the source. Obsession is about going the extra mile (or a dozen) on your own.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Philip Prior, "self righteous, patronising"? Nope, I’m self opinionated and mouthy and I love my sport.
90% of the riders on any hill are pottering around trying to link turns, playing bulldozer on the steep bits, looking for powder stashes that don’t need any walking to or sitting around the park gate waiting for some poor kid to smack themselves before they themselves jib in and so don’t look so bad. In these circumstances proper waxing is pretty much irrelevant
The other 10 % are out ripping the mountain or taking lessons to learn how, This is where good board prep and surface treatment will make a difference.
Me? Somewhere in the middle, there are few who’ll stay with me on piste now whatever the colour, and point me at steep powder and I’ll spend all day walking for just one hit. In the park I’m too old to bounce, I just stack and bleed and I’ll not drop more than a couple of feet into anything where I don’t know what’s under the surface.
For the 90%, waxing isn’t as important as people think. Wax has pretty much one primary function . . . to make you go as fast as possible in the prevalent conditions. Let’s face it, that’s not what a lot of riders want or need in their normal riding. A slight (and it is slight in clean packed snow at 0 to –5°) drag will help when learning good turn technique, when landing jumps and learning to ride powder . Modern sintered and fluoride polymer base materials are far harder and less porous than the early P-tex and base texture is more important to maintaining an even shear level along the board with the microgroove texture and removing the little ‘tails or feathers’ that form when riding. Most riders will never go fast enough to heat the board enough to draw the original wax out of the pores. So if you don’t scrape or polish off any liquid or rub-on wax properly you’ll never notice the difference or even end up slower.
I’ve an old Forum P’Line that’s useless without regular frequent waxing and an old test board with a very hard sintered base that’s not seen an iron for 4 seasons and is quicker than the Forum in all conditions
If you’re riding in old or dusty snow, slush, very cold conditions or mainly powder, then correct waxing will protect your board surface and keep your speed up to acceptable levels.
It is a personal call, Once I’ve done a pre-season service base preparation and edge shape, just using a daily Teflon wipe-on and a light edge dressing keeps my sticks riding the way I want them . . . at least for the 2 – 3 weeks use they get. If I was riding week in, week out (fingers crossed), I’d have to review this and I might start waxing to suit the projected or known conditions on a frequent basis.
All boards come with a factory wax unless stated otherwise on the labelling. It’ll be a general purpose wax 0 to –5° and will last a week in good conditions. If the snow is way outside those temps or you notice your board grabbing continuously, then you need to look at and change what’s on the bottom. What you put on it will make a difference, but only if it’s applied correctly. . . and that’s kinda rare, I’ve had some abysmal jobs done in resort and in one Italian shop they screwed up my edges so badly I ended up getting a new stick out of them.
It’s taken me more than a few years to sort out what works for me and the amount of on snow time I get. It’s different for each individual but for the average one or two week a year rider, a ‘proper’ service at the end of each trip (without a scrape) will protect your board and edges in storage and you just need to give it a scrape and a brush before riding the next trip, look at the hill conditions and your riding ability and make your choice to suit what you want to achieve.
I use Zardoz NotWax and I’ve few complaints at all except it doesn’t seen very good on old soft P-tex. It’s base surface care and preparation that’s as or more important than the wax you use.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's masses of suff about waxing boards and skis here including some handy tips about how to clean up your iron afterwards so that your wife never finds out what you have been using it for.
Other bits and pieces on edge filing and levelling etc here
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fu'k me!! What a thread!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Masque any ideas on what to put to put on the board in slush/etct o stop in grabbing in warm weather conditions found in spring conditions? I was using a rub on liquid daily to prevent this recently.This only really occurred at cerain condtions & not all the time,so is not a great problem,just an annoying one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Simon (Mr T), Did you scrape off the excess (even with a rub-on), brush out the texture and polish with a nylon duster? If you don't clean the kack off, it's as much use as trying to light your cheese färts for the extra propulsion.  You could use the Teflon wipe on over the top but it'll only last a few hours in those conditions (whatever they claim on the tin)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yeh,did scrape & polish,even the liquid instant stuff.....Teflon wipe,sounds something like i get from my ass every now & again!
The instant stuff might have teflon,i'll check.Its Toyo anyway.Didn't work anyway.
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FAQ
