 Poster: A snowHead
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So, I used my boots for the first time yesterday. I paid a visit to CEM a while back but unfortunately he didn't have anything in stock so I picked up something in the sales at S&R. Whether that is a problem or not we shall see in time. My first boots were a 29/29.5, which after 30 days packed out too much and I started to get heel movement. So, the second time at S&R they measured me up again and recommended a 29, I told them stuff that as I could feel the heel moving again so I opted for a 28/28.5, which are snug. I think CEM reckoned I could go even smaller than that.
Anyway, these are pretty snug (Salomon Falcon 10) and I barely need to do up the buckles over the toes and foot, which I presume is good for it to hold my feet. I can feel them solidly holding around my ankle also. However, I started getting tingling in my right foot's toes. I could always move my toes so it wasn't cutting off bloody supply but am wondering if that's bad? I know they'll pack out a bit over a few days or so.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi Gordon,
They will pack out and, I suspect that the overall pressure will be relieved after about seven days of skiing. However the tingling feeling that you are feeling could persist. Try to remove the stock insole or orthotic if you have one out of the boot. Now try them on again and see if this persists. This will allow the foot to sit about three milimeters lower inside the liner and should eleviate pressure on the top of the foot (a common area for problems in the brief description of symtoms that you have described). This should act as an indicator as to wether the instep is too low. The Falcon 10 has a fairly low instep volume and this is a problem that I have seen in the boot when med to high arched feet are inserted. Did you try the Impact 10 CS? This has more instep room and could work better. It should also be noted that the current falcon has a heat mouldable shell which if not stretched when required might also be a root cause of the affore mentioned tingling.
If this problem persists then there are a couple of this to consider.
First do you have or need orthotics? If you dont have them you should regardless of the boot that your in.
If you cannot get rid of the problem before you ski in the boot I would try the Impacts.......subsequent to this if I where considering making this boot work and had no other options then I might grind the Zeppa (boot board;a term used to described the sometimes removable internal base of a ski boot), this should add a few mm of room at the top of the foot. This might not be enough! I might also cut a window into the tounge of the boot. The salomon stock liners have a very thick tounge plastic and if a window is cut into the top it can rease pressure on the dorsum of the foot and solve the problem....
This assumes of course (not having discussed the matter in details and seeing your feet) that this is the problem....good luck
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have my own moulded insole, is that what you mean? Surely, I need that to ski properly and keep the boot flat.
Or do you mean, walk around in them at home? I guess I should see if they are a problem at home or if it's only caused by the pressures when skiing.
I think my feet are pretty low arched hence the guy's choice of boot for me and why it feels nicely snug.
The heat mouldable shell - am I supposed to do anything with that?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Its good that you have an insole...I am suggesting that the tingling is a result of compression somewhere in the shell. Taking the insole out and wal;king around in the boot could indicate wether the pressure is on the top of the foot as sometimes mm count.
Your comment about the pressures of skiing is very perceptive! Most trad overlap shells will deform as the upper cuff is flexed at turn initiation and this could only compound the issue when skiing. I would suggest that this is occuring now so the problem already exists....In regards the flat foot well....generally the planus foot will evert (commonly refered to as pronation when its not but anyway..) or role inward and thus cause the foot to abduct and cause other potential areas for pressure. Your insole if constructed correctly should help this problem. However if the orthotic does not have the correct alignment then it could be contributing to the problems.......When it comes to the shell yes it matters if you have a foot that is wider than say approx 103 mm. compresion of the interdigidal nerves by the metatarsals because a boot is too narrow might also be factor...
Think of it this way man if I was fitting you and this was occuring I wouldnt let you buy that boot without fixing that pescky old tingle!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ski4life wrote: |
Its good that you have an insole...I am suggesting that the tingling is a result of compression somewhere in the shell. Taking the insole out and wal;king around in the boot could indicate wether the pressure is on the top of the foot as sometimes mm count.
Your comment about the pressures of skiing is very perceptive! Most trad overlap shells will deform as the upper cuff is flexed at turn initiation and this could only compound the issue when skiing. I would suggest that this is occuring now so the problem already exists....In regards the flat foot well....generally the planus foot will evert (commonly refered to as pronation when its not but anyway..) or role inward and thus cause the foot to abduct and cause other potential areas for pressure. Your insole if constructed correctly should help this problem. However if the orthotic does not have the correct alignment then it could be contributing to the problems.......When it comes to the shell yes it matters if you have a foot that is wider than say approx 103 mm. compresion of the interdigidal nerves by the metatarsals because a boot is too narrow might also be factor...
Think of it this way man if I was fitting you and this was occuring I wouldnt let you buy that boot without fixing that pescky old tingle!! |
I'll try it again later with and without the footbed.
I don't remember having the tingle when trying it on in the shop. I guess if it stops after 7 days skiing then all ok as well?
Do I have to heat up the liner mould you mentioned? I noticed it said custom fit but I've never had it moulded or anything, it's just the standard liner.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 24-01-10 21:38; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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how long did you try on the boot for? remember your gonna be wearing those things for hours bro and if there is a tingle there now...what if its there later?
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| ski4life wrote: |
| how long did you try on the boot for? remember your gonna be wearing those things for hours bro and if there is a tingle there now...what if its there later? |
Probably about 15mins or so.
The tingle only started after the first run. Each time up the lift, I loosen the buckle and it goes, then I tighten again before the top of the run.
After skiing quite a few runs, having a 20min break, and then doing a few more it didn't seem to tingle much but maybe I just didn't notice it.
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I suggest that buckles are for closure and not for tightening the boot. Wearing a boot for 15 mins is not enough time in my opinion. I hope that the issue resolves itself as it very well might do but still why the compression of the buckles to achieve hold and then the relief of pressure when the buckle are released? that is compresion my friend and logic dictates that if the boot is new and you already feel the need to tighten it down at the top of each run then the potential for more issues of compression will present themselves when the liner packs out.......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ski4life wrote: |
| I suggest that buckles are for closure and not for tightening the boot. Wearing a boot for 15 mins is not enough time in my opinion. I hope that the issue resolves itself as it very well might do but still why the compression of the buckles to achieve hold and then the relief of pressure when the buckle are released? that is compresion my friend and logic dictates that if the boot is new and you already feel the need to tighten it down at the top of each run then the potential for more issues of compression will present themselves when the liner packs out....... |
No, I just close the buckle at the top of the run. I don't want to ski down with the buckles pointing up and shell therefore not closed properly. They are on the loosest setting at present and foot firmly held.
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good luck man I hope the boots work great and you have a great ski trip...take care..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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tingling in the toes...mmm now (if there is not a big red mark on top of your foot) that could be caused by the lack of flexion in the ankle joint that i seem to remember you having, combinded with the falcon having a very agressive forward lean angle 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You been reading up some notes? 
I don't feel any overtight pressure on the arch of my foot I don't think and it's only in one foot. I'll have to try them on again but perhaps there was some pressure I could feel as a whole from the footbed combined with the low arch...not sure.
Wear them for what 30min in the house with footbed in, then 30mins with footbed out?
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no need for notes , some things just stick in your mind
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You know it makes sense.
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It doesn't feel too bad when skiing it but of course difficult to notice some things.
What do you recommend, just see how it pans out over next few ski days?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is it worth adjusting the canting if no better after 7 days?
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Poster: A snowHead
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All the Falcon Based boots seem to have had this problem, Delta angles/Forward lean, I'm not sure or in agreement that this boot has enough space in the instep to sucessfully use heel raises to compensate for lack of ankle flexion. Spoilers out and in the bin.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ski4life wrote: |
Hi Gordon,
They will pack out and, I suspect that the overall pressure will be relieved after about seven days of skiing. However the tingling feeling that you are feeling could persist. Try to remove the stock insole or orthotic if you have one out of the boot. Now try them on again and see if this persists. This will allow the foot to sit about three milimeters lower inside the liner and should eleviate pressure on the top of the foot (a common area for problems in the brief description of symtoms that you have described). This should act as an indicator as to wether the instep is too low. The Falcon 10 has a fairly low instep volume and this is a problem that I have seen in the boot when med to high arched feet are inserted. Did you try the Impact 10 CS? This has more instep room and could work better. It should also be noted that the current falcon has a heat mouldable shell which if not stretched when required might also be a root cause of the affore mentioned tingling.
If this problem persists then there are a couple of this to consider.
First do you have or need orthotics? If you dont have them you should regardless of the boot that your in.
If you cannot get rid of the problem before you ski in the boot I would try the Impacts.......subsequent to this if I where considering making this boot work and had no other options then I might grind the Zeppa (boot board;a term used to described the sometimes removable internal base of a ski boot), this should add a few mm of room at the top of the foot. This might not be enough! I might also cut a window into the tounge of the boot. The salomon stock liners have a very thick tounge plastic and if a window is cut into the top it can rease pressure on the dorsum of the foot and solve the problem....
This assumes of course (not having discussed the matter in details and seeing your feet) that this is the problem....good luck |
ski4life, the problem does not occur when walking in the boot only when I have had it on and skied a run.
When you say: It should also be noted that the current falcon has a heat mouldable shell which if not stretched when required might also be a root cause of the affore mentioned tingling.
Do you mean heated in the shop to increase flex?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GordonFreeman, You know how to get the best of a forum hey, you got three bootfitters trying to sort out a problem!! Perhaps pay at least one of them a visit, let them do their thing and do the thinking for you. They might earn a living that way too!!!!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, like you I give my advice to people with their best interests in mind, when they choose to ignor it I find it best that they find another bootfitter
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Guys, I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I'm simply asking for advice.
What exactly in the posts above am I ignoring? I'm asking questions about boot fitting and whether these boots are salvageable to determine whether to spend any more money or not. We hang around on this forum to help people and give advice because we like the sport amongst other reasons.
CEM - I appreciate your advice but I spent some time & money driving up to see you last year and I took that advice on board - it was a shame you didn't have any stock left that season. To be fair I didn't write any of your advice down and don't specifically remember anything about lack of flexion, it is difficult to remember 100% of the stuff you are told from a short meeting...let alone the fact that S&R do not even mention anything to do with forward lean angles when you try on boots there...if not a compression related problem.
The UK is not an easy place to find good boot fitters in comparison to the Alps or the US. In addition, buying boots from the Alps has warranty issues (postal returns, etc. ) with returning the item when you live in a different country if something goes wrong.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 14-02-10 11:29; edited 3 times in total
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GordonFreeman, I think the point is that your problems are so specific that without seeing your feet and boots, it's impossible to give definitive advice.
We are lucky to have bootfitters on hand here to offer advice, but in many cases it's not something that can be performed remotely.
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GordonFreeman,
1 you were well aware that at the last week in march or in early april there was likely to be very limited options
2 you tried on the ideal boot shape in a flex which was too stiff but never the less the fit was what we were looking for
3 I ordered the pair of boots in for you as requested in good faith, didn't ask for any deposit ( do bare in mind it was summerso we had to wait for them to arrive) when they arrived I called and left a message (which you chose to ignor)
you may want to remind your self of this thread, which you posted to try and justify your decision
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/83114/race-boot-vs-recreational-boot
based onthe above and your general atitude you are not the most welcome person in our office **** edited to remove the name of the person concerned
please find another boot fitter if there are any left who will deal with you
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 14-02-10 12:54; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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CEM
I have been out of the UK for more than 6 months, which is probably why I did not answer...not to mention that my number has changed.
Furthermore, I distinctly remember you saying "check out the sales at other places and if you find something then no problem" - because I was looking to get away in March/April that year.
My decision was based on the fact I spent a 4hr round trip (£50 on petrol at least) to get some advice and search for boots, which weren't available on that occasion - of course businesses run out of stock but I wasn't aware I had to buy them through you...though I would certainly have considered it had I not found a deal in the sales at S&R and made an on the spot decision based on likely future transport costs.
If you could remove my name from the above post, that would be most professional.
Regardless of all the above, I was still considering coming to get fitted again. I'm not sure what I have done to offend you guys apart from not buy your boots - I haven't made any abusive statements or anything like that in the above posts and my general attitude is just inquisitve due to problems with the boot (temporary or long term), it's not meant to come across as hard natured and if it is, then I apologise for that, but it can be hard to get the point across on forums.
Cheers
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GordonFreeman,
the call was made to you around july when the boots arrived..... a simple call to say, "i looked around and found another boot, i won't need the ones you have ordered for me" would have been nice
it is not what you have done to offend anyone, but the way you put your point across.. you start several threads all pretty much asking the same question and expect people to give you the answer that YOU WANT TO HEAR rather than the only answer we can give you
we have answered the question, the boot you have has a pretty agressive forward lean angle and flat ramp angle, you have a limited amount of flexion at your ankle, you need to either raise the heel slightly inside the boot, change the instep profile of the boot to accomodate the top of your foot if this is required.... what more can we do
(another thread)the liner has split on the back, take it back to the shop you got it from and ask nicely if they can get a replacement liner, stomping in demanding a refund will do nothing to get you any level of custoemr service
BTW at £50 in fuel from london to bicester (even from the furthest reaches of the city) i would love to know what car you drive 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| CEM wrote: |
GordonFreeman,
the call was made to you around july when the boots arrived..... a simple call to say, "i looked around and found another boot, i won't need the ones you have ordered for me" would have been nice
it is not what you have done to offend anyone, but the way you put your point across.. you start several threads all pretty much asking the same question and expect people to give you the answer that YOU WANT TO HEAR rather than the only answer we can give you
we have answered the question, the boot you have has a pretty agressive forward lean angle and flat ramp angle, you have a limited amount of flexion at your ankle, you need to either raise the heel slightly inside the boot, change the instep profile of the boot to accomodate the top of your foot if this is required.... what more can we do
(another thread)the liner has split on the back, take it back to the shop you got it from and ask nicely if they can get a replacement liner, stomping in demanding a refund will do nothing to get you any level of custoemr service
BTW at £50 in fuel from london to bicester (even from the furthest reaches of the city) i would love to know what car you drive |
Like I said...I have been out of the country and voicemails get deleted - it wasn't intentional.
Believe it or not, the stomping in and demanding a refund was a possible option so I could get the money back to go and get boot fitted properly 
It wasn't London to Bicester back when I was looking for boots (2hrs from deepest darkest Somerset and boots purchased at S&R in Bristol).
These are all slightly different (albeit about boots):
First go in new boots
how important is boot liner moudling?
plastic at back of inners split?
I apologise if anything has come across badly, it wasn't meant that way - there are 2 sides to every story and I wasn't aware that writing a few posts was anything to be attacked for.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 15-02-10 0:26; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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GordonFreeman, I'm not offended in anyway. Colin is a very good friend of mine and any history between you two is sure to be resolved professionally.
My point here is just that you have multiple threads going about the same topic and are buzzing between 3 dedicated bootfitters. Surely this time has taught you something, we are worth the expense. The time you spend here discussing the problems must take up some of the time you could put to use doing some work, earning some cash to pay for the petrol to get this done properly. We are here as we like and believe there is a right way to buy boots. Between Colin and myself we have around 35 years of experience and in such time have probably fitted between us 20,000 pairs of boots. Each being a different combination of Feet, Liners, Footbeds and Shells. So as it has been pointed out, your needs are specific and will need face to face consultation to resolve, I'm not sure there is much more we can tell you remotely that can help you get what you need. However I for one will continue to help if I can, but as stated let's see your feet, boots etc and get all our time better served.
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FAQ
