 Poster: A snowHead
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A quick one: is there a recommended reproofing spray for Goretex? I'm looking for something to restore the DWR coating on the outside of the fabric so water just beads off it without affecting the breathability. Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wash it in Nikwax Tech wash to get it clean, and then wash-in or spray-on Nikwax TX-direct to renew the water repellency (I prefer the wash-in: you don't risk missing bits). Full details at http://www.nikwax.co.uk/uk/fabric.asp . Should be available at most outdoor shops.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i too am a big fan of teh nix wax products. easy to use, adn do a good job.
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I have heard that the spray on stuff works better - assuming you haven't missed bits, as what you're trying to do is only replace the water resistance of the outer fabric.
Always used the wash through in the past though, worked perfectly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've only used the spray, and found that it worked a treat.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think that if you use a proofing spray, the breathability of the Goretex layer may be reduced. Goretex has a limited life, and the only way to restore it while maintaining breathability is to buy new kit. Performance can drop off when its dirty, so a wash might help (I'm not suggesting that you habitually go around with dirty kit, BTW, but I do).
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You can add water repellency to fleeces by washing them in the wash thru product as well.
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ian bloomfield, not sure what the difference is, but there's a separate product for fleeces "Polar Proof". There's an ongoing competition to win some at the Nikwax website.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| Goretex has a limited life |
True. Finally got rid of my old berghaus 'cardboard Goretex' cag last summer. Was about 20 years old, but I admit it's only be used for gardening duty for the past 5. However I note that most goretex clothing still comes with the life-time guarantee tag, so many I should have sent it back!
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Thanks for that. I already use the Nikwax Tech Wash and was going to get the reproofing wash as well but it states on the tube it's best for shells only. I'll see if I can find the spray on stuff.
richmond, I was always under the impression that a DWR spray will not affect the breathability and that dirt can allow water to seeo through the fabric...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Grangers also do a spray-on reproof. No idea as to whether it's any good.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sharkymark, that's OK then.
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Look for the Nikwax vwersion that states for ski wear there are 2 types of wash in water proofing!
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You know it makes sense.
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Does anyone bother to use the washin stuff AND the spray on stuff? I've just done a washin of my Colombia jacket (wot's padded with foam). Am wondering whether there's any real benefit to also giving it a spray on the outside (or is the addition of the spray just going to compromise breathability for only slightly better water-repellancy?)
Any ideas?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Manda, Nikwax have a very good cutomer help department. I'd drop them a line and ask.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think I read somewhere that you should only use a spray on with Goretex because if you use a wash-in reproofer, you will compromise the breathability by making the inside of the jacket water repellant too.
(I think that was on the Nikwax website or Outdoorsmagic)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DAVID F, there's nothing like that on Nikwax site, indeed it recommends either. I think it'll be down to personal prefernce. Theres a facitlity to put in your fabric and it recommends the right product too.
http://www.nikwax.co.uk/uk/choosea.asp
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Helen Beaumont, on the goretex care website it recommends that you do not use a wash in reproofing treatment, and only use the spray on ones.
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DAVID F, this is the case if your Goretex has a wicking layer bonded to the inside edge of the laminate (3 layer constructions will have this) - that layer is intended to soak up your steamy sweat and take it to the Goretex, from where it gets pushed out into the outside world. If you make that layer water repellant, the vapour will just condense on the inside of the layer.
However, if you have a 2-layer construction, with a loose lining (sometimes fabric, sometimes mesh) between you and the Goretex, this should not be a problem.
It's not really a big issue for ski clothing but improving the water repellancy of the outer fabric improves the breathability in wet weather. If the outer fabric gets sodden with water, it really doesn't matter how expensive your jacket is, it is not going to breathe.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tony Lane, indeed many people do not realise that goretex works by having a permeable membrane attached to a water repellent fabric, the fabric keeps water of the permeable membrane which allows water vapour through but not water, one of the early demos of goretex was with a goretex bag filled with steaming water, the steam came out but no water. Vapour will only pass through the material if there is a difference in humidity between inside and outside, for this reason Goretex does not perform well in very humid conditions
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Thanks guys - my Colombia jacket claims to be "Omnitech", which I suspect is Colombia's version of Gortex. But the fact that the jacket's got padding between two layers makes me think that whatever water-repellency/wicking properties the inner/outer fabric has, it's probably not acting *quite* like Gortex in the way Gortex make it....
Tony Lane, sound like you're on the money there - I might try adding spray and see how it goes. I can always wash the damn stuff out if it stops the jacket breathing.
It got a wash in the first place after I got it absolutely soaked in rain during a day's skiing which also meant it picked up lots of rain-loosened grease/grime from chairlifts. Interestingly, while the outer layer was a sodden (grubby) mess, I still stayed nice and dry 
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Manda, Columbia fabrics are very confusing. Some of their Omni-tech branded fabrics are laminates (with a membrane that works like gore-tex bonded to an outer fabric, and possibly an inner fabric as well) whereas other Omni-tech fabrics have a waterproof and breathable coating (usually on the inside surface).
But both would be suitable for using a spray
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How long does the water repellency of the Nikwax spray last? Or, in other words, how far will my £8 a bottle go!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sharkymark, if you treat the jacket reasonably the reproofing should last until the next wash is needed
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Cool...about 5 years time then 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Am I the only person who washes their goretex shell after every trip?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kramer, I don't know, but I can think of a few who should 
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Kramer, yes.
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You know it makes sense.
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Tony Lane, cheers for that (incidentally how do you come to be so knowledgeable about this stuff?)
I'd say my jacket's breathable. Of course it's post wash- & reproof-performance remains to be proven! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Manda, I worked in a few outdoor shops while at school, university and backpacking in Oz (mainly to be able to get stuff at trade prices rather than because the wages were anything to get excited about) and so I had to become familiar with the differences between different fabrics.
Now I cannot look at kit in a shop without analysing its construction - very helpful when the staff know nothing!
However, the various types of softshells are still a bit of a mystery to me as none of the modern fabrics existed when i was working in shops and so I haven't got that background knowledge. All you could get then were pile and pertex tops like Buffalo.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| OmniTech is a patented coating applied to Columbia products to make them both waterproof and breathable. It's applied much like a frosting is applied to a cake, with a knife. OmniTech has microscopic particles that increase the number of pores, and make them smaller. This makes the fabric more waterproof and more breathable at the same time. |
If Tony Lane is right (and I've no reason to doubt him) that this is applied to the inside then spraying the outside is not going to touch the original proofing and breathing layer. Whereas washing will presumably have some effect since it will act on both surfaces. Having said that I've washed and nik waxed by the soaking method my Columbia jacket a couple of times and it's still brillant.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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how often do you guys reproof your gear?
i go around 3-7 days a season, do i even need to wash it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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enoch, not unless it gets really dirty. I've done it probably every other year or so (if I ski one week only) and mainly because the jacket collar, the windguard bit that buttons up over your face in grotty weather and the hood (plus the cuffs for reasons I can't figure) get really grubby with sweat, suncream, and whatever my skin sheds naturally. 90% of the jacket is fine usually when I decide it's time for the washing machine. Reproofing only gets done every other wash - if I have the right stuff to hand. Salopettes get washed more often 'cos they get sweatier and dirtier quicker than the jacket.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kuwait_ian, thanks!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="kuwait_ian"]
| Quote: |
| If Tony Lane is right (and I've no reason to doubt him) that this is applied to the inside then spraying the outside is not going to touch the original proofing and breathing layer. Whereas washing will presumably have some effect since it will act on both surfaces. Having said that I've washed and nik waxed by the soaking method my Columbia jacket a couple of times and it's still brillant. |
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
Coated waterproof fabrics have the waterproof and breathable coating applied to the inner surface of the fabric, where it will suffer less abrasion (also for aesthetic reasons since the coating is often shiny). This is the main barrier to water but the outer fabric will also have a water repellant coating in order to prevent it becoming sodden. With the rain running off the outer fabric rather than soaking in, the breathable coating can do it's job and breathe. Obviously, the water repellant coating on the outer fabric is not 100% waterproof - hence the need for the inner coating.
Gore-tex is the same except that there is a membrane (the goretex) laminated to the fabric instead of a coating.
Re-spraying the outer fabric, or using a wash-in method, does not actually repair a laminate (such as goretex) or a waterproof coating. All it does is replenish the water repellancy and ensure that the breathability of the garment works as well as possible. A fresh water repellancy will be almost waterproof for a while.
In most circumstances, ski wear only needs to be water repellant and so this is not a problem, but if your gore-tex is leaking or if the waterproof coating is wearing out, a re-proofing will only be a temporary measure and will not stand up to serious abuse.
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enoch, this is the first time I've ever reproofed my ski jacket (or washed it, for that matter  ). Had it since 2001, it's seen about 8 weeks skiing-related wear (plus additional UK wear most winters). I only reproofed it cause I finally got around to washing it, and even then it got washed only cause it got thoroughly grimmed up on a particularly grimy day....otherwise it would've gone (yet) another season without seeing soap. Mind you, it looks like post-washing reproofing might not even have been needed....
I would think that unless you're skiing in grimy conditions, or are particularly house-proud when it comes to ski gear, you shouldn't need to wash it more than once a season, if that. Reproofing might need to occur more often depending on how rainy the weather's likely to be when you go skiing (but I'm guessing - rain while skiing doesn't happen to me that often!)
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Manda, certainly with Goretex and probably with other breathables you should never reproof unless you've washed the jacket/item first as this can trap dirt in the poors of the material decreasing its breathability
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thanks manda!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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enoch, btw, why are you even thinking about re-proofing??? You're in Sydney. Which, as everyone up this end of the world knows, never gets any rain 
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Manda, hahahahahaha. That's a good'un!
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