 Poster: A snowHead
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bertie bassett, yes, you have 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK, OK. I give up. Here was I thinking that skiing was so great and worth talking about but who am I to hold out against the wishes of the majority. So here goes..................
Who is David Goldsmith?
And in particular what does he look like?
Anyone got a picture????
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Do you think if Hitler had been on the same trip as Pandora the outcome might have been very different? Would the rep have shouted at him?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Snowhereman, unfortunately I could only find a rear view
The Ski Club of Great Britain will have photos of him. Perhaps a call to them will work. Just ask for the Chief Executive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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.... I wasn't really serious about capping thread lengths.
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Shimmy Alcott, In your case - perhaps the 973 other offences which had to be taken into consideration??
but I think here Admin is just hoping the particpants bore themselves to death
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bode Swiller, thanks for introducing Hitler on page 20.
If Hitler hadn't existed I wouldn't exist, so Hitler can - as usual - be blamed for everything. He failed to comandeer the Ski Beat bus, and he brought my parents together.
That's not a photo of my butt, by the way. I'm the one in the yellow jacket, between her legs, without the helmet.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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New week - New month, any news?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Boredsurfing,
thats hopefully relates to the OP 
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
New week - New month, any news?
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I've just had a Pork Pie
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You know it makes sense.
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Phil_D, good point. Heaven forbid that most of the other contributors to this thread be re-awoken. The same old, same old has gone around at least three times already.
Boris, I just had some cold beef leftovers. Mmmm.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman, evidence? Of anything posted on here? You gotta be kidding. |
I am assuming that there are ski beat people pretending to be just users on here as I cannot imagine why anyone would take the side of a company that has treated a group of people with 8 small children (5 in my group and 3 others in another group) so abysmally. I was one of Pandora's group and she tells no tales, it was the worst experience of my life. The weather was something Ski beat and the airline could do nothing about. I am sure many of you have had lovely holidays with this company - but it is how they behaved when things went wrong that we are warning about. Bad weather and mountains - we were prepared for that, what we were not prepared for was to be redirected to Milan and wait in airport for 6 hours with no Rep in sight. Finally when a rep arrives after 4 hours of no information he proceeds to yell at us that we are waiting in the wrong place - then realises we are the wrong people hands us over to someone else who then yells at us because we are upset about how we are being treated. I remind you all that our group was travelling with 5 little ones under 2 ! To top it off 2 hours later we are put on a FILTHY bus with a very tired driver who keeps texting and swerving on the road and a surely Rep who will not speak to any of us - no apologies, no estimation of how long we are going to be on the bus (5 more hours!! ) not a word AND the rep then jumps off the bus 30 minutes before we go to the resort! Sorry if any of you can see this is right then I guess I need to set my sights very low when it comes to ski packages!
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Poster: A snowHead
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OsMum, welcome to SnowHeads. Has anyone in your party received a response from SkiBeat yet?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
what we were not prepared for was to be redirected to Milan and wait in airport for 6 hours with no Rep in sight
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It takes that long to get from the Tarentaise to Milan. Or did you expect him to teleport?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OsMum, welcome to snowHeads. Not sure why you quoted me, I haven't taken anybody's side.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hello OsMum!  Just to reassure anyone who think's OsMum might be me, it's not!
The party leader eventually received a response today. It cited Force Majeure as the reason for the delay. They have not addressed the fact that the main part of the letter was asking Ski Beat to address the problems of lack of communication, rude reps, and tired and dangerous driver, which were the main grievances among others. Ski Beat have indicated that they do not wish to correspond further on the matter. The email appears to be a rather pathetic attempt to stop us from persuing what is a not unreasonable request for an explanation and apology for (and sorry I am having to shout here, just to make sure noone is confused that I might be complaining about a lot of snow hampering our holiday) RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE REPS, DANGEROUS DRIVING AND COMPLETE LACK OF COMMUNICATION FORM SKI BEAT.
It would seem that we were not the only group to receive such an email this week. Take at look here; http://www.reviewcentre.com/review624745.html and here; http://www.reviewcentre.com/review624674.html and here; http://www.reviewcentre.com/review624346.html I promise you, these were people I have never met, spoken to or heard of before. Ski Beat, completely independently of anything I have said here, have managed to really, really annoy these people too.
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It takes that long to get from the Tarentaise to Milan. Or did you expect him to teleport?
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Lizzard, we're not sure what we expected him to do. But by some miracle, all of the other tour operators collecting people from Milan that day MUST have teleported, as they were there! Or maybe they set off once they heard the flight was going to Milan instead. Whatever. If Ski Beat's reps had done that, they might just have had a fighting chance of standing side-by-side with the other reps who were greeting their clients as they left the baggage hall. If we, as a hormonal bunch of mummies with attitude can take a look at the weather and go 'Uh-oh! Lotta snow forecast. Lets take some extra sandwiches and toys just in case we end up somewhere that's not Chambery!' I don't think it is too much of a stretch to expect a ski company to at least given some thought as to how they are going to deal with it. For example, wouldn't such an exceptional weekend have been a good time to have someone manning the telephone lines at least? There are so many things they could have done differently. But the fact is, they didn't.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| OsMum wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman, evidence? Of anything posted on here? You gotta be kidding. |
I am assuming that there are ski beat people pretending to be just users on here as I cannot imagine why anyone would take the side of a company that has treated a group of people with 8 small children (5 in my group and 3 others in another group) so abysmally. I was one of Pandora's group and she tells no tales, it was the worst experience of my life. |
Clearly you have no backbone.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 12-02-10 23:46; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pandora, spare us the boring details yet again and just sue them. Don't forget to post the outcome on here.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| pandora, spare us the boring details yet again and just sue them. Don't forget to post the outcome on here. |
Well, you asked for an update PJSki
For anyone who's interested the response we got was as follows:
"We have now received letters or e-mails from several members of your party, I am writing to you as the party leader for the trip to Chalet Bouquetin on 9 January 2010. I do not intend to reply to all the detailed questions and comments submitted. It has come to our attention that one or more members of your party have chosen to air their views on Chatroom Forums without first having contacted either Ski Beat or Snowjet. I believe that the actions taken by some members of your party negate any need for Ski Beat to respond in full. Your group has also said it will send letters to AITO, ABTA and as ************ states “a number of publications”. I can confirm that we have already been in contact with AITO concerning this matter. Further I can confirm that we do not succumb to such threats.
Normally Ski Beat would consider making a gesture of goodwill where guests have suffered such discomfort and inconvenience in spite of the cause of the problems being beyond our control: we recognise how important people’s holidays are to them and value their returning and loyal custom. Ski Beat and Titan Airways have already provided hotel accommodation which they were not legally required to do: the delays were caused by the exceptional adverse weather conditions. I would draw your attention to clause 9 of our booking conditions that covers Force Majeure: it was the weather conditions that prevented or affected the performance or prompt performance of our contractual obligations. I would also draw your attention to clause 18 which covers delays that are beyond our control. Ski Beat will not accept liability nor pay any compensation for the flight delay that you experienced. We have already apologised and expressed our sympathy for the disrupted and severely delayed flight on 9 January; I re-iterate these now.
Further, we will not be entering into further correspondence with any members of your party. I regret that it is necessary to take this stance but feel that it is one that the group has brought upon itself."
....needless to say we are all livid.
This story isn't going to go away for a while yet and we'll be sure to keep you posted on every step of the way
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 12-02-10 23:15; edited 1 time in total
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pandora, snowjoke and osmum, thanks for keeping us informed. Plainly, you were treated disgracefully by Ski Beat. I'm sure you'll ignore the detractors on here, who have nothing to be proud of, as well as Ski Beat's feeble response to your complaint. I hope you pursue that complaint (in the small claims court if necessary) and get the compensation you deserve. Good luck!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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"... I regret that it is necessary to take this stance but feel that it is one that the group has brought upon itself"
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I'm guessing that's a reference to the adverse publicity.
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I regret that it is necessary to take this stance but feel that it is one that the group has brought upon itself
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Rather strange sentance to put in the reply 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bode Swiller, if so, then it's an own goal by Ski Beat. If they won't correspond, they leave pandora and her party little option but to issue proceedings (in court or in arbitration, eg using the AITO scheme if the claim is within its financial limits). And neither judges nor arbitrators look kindly on parties who refuse to take part in discussions aimed at resolving disputes without recourse to proceedings...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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anarchicsaltire, indeed, but we will never know the hard facts, unless it goes to court and gets reported. May the best man win.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| I'm guessing that's a reference to the adverse publicity. |
You're absolutely right - I've edited my original post to add in the first paragraph. What you see now is the full response from Ski Beat, edited only to obliterate the name of one of our group.
Most unsatisfactory and, I think you'll agree, fails to answer a single one of our complaints 
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You know it makes sense.
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Whatever happened during the holiday, I think we can judge for ourselves the skills of Ski Beat in handling the aftermath here and in correspondence. Not good.
However are you SB victims really sure you want to devote more emotional energy and money to taking this any further than the small claims court?
Perhaps if yet another one of you was to come back every couple of weeks and bump this thread up to the top again.... ah... I see you have already thought of that... 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Snow Joke wrote: |
| Most unsatisfactory and, I think you'll agree, fails to answer a single one of our complaints |
Yes, but what you have now is what's known as "a situation". They are massively pee'd off with you and you are massively pee'd off with them. They are going to assume a position 100% behind their T's & C's and, if it ever got to court, that's an agreement you probably signed up to at some stage so the court would go on that. They'll figure that the adverse publicity has gone well beyond its peak effectiveness so may as well get tough. Being shouted at by a rep is appalling, texting bus driver is worse but, at the end of the day, you'll need to prove your financial damage - a court isn't going to be much interested in hurt feelings or inconvenience and a lot of that will be two bald men fighting over a comb. If you sue you're relying on them deciding that the cost of defending outweighs what you're after. Or they may not care. I wish you all luck but the tone of that letter tells me that they are going to dig in and hope you all go away.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The tone of that letter tells me I won't be booking with them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Still got lots to say, but rather tired now. But I have to pick up on just one thing from the Ski Beat letter;
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it was the weather conditions that prevented or affected the performance or prompt performance of our contractual obligations.
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So he's talking about the delays here. Reading between the lines, does this mean a bit of information, some common decency from the staff, and a transfer that doesn't have you fearing for your lives are outside of their contractual obligations, then?
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We have already apologised and expressed our sympathy for the disrupted and severely delayed flight on 9 January
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Yes, but we did have to put up with some rather appalling behaviour before a single sheet of A4 was left on a shelf in the chalet several days after our arrival. And at no point has anyone apologised for that appalling behaviour, which is what we were most interested in.
All of this has stemmed from a basic inability to see that paying guests should be treated like the source of the income that they are, not like naughty school kids. In the grand scheme of things, we lost 2 days of holiday and were mightily narked but got over it. Ski Beat on the other hand has by it's own refusal to engage with it's guests in an adult way as soon as it was able to, has precipitated what seems to be the longest thread I have seen on a forum for a long time. And by sending the group leader a rather brusquely worded email, not just to our group, but to a number of groups by the look of other review sites, has managed to bump the general pee'd off-ness with them back to the top of the charts. Sadly for Ski Beat, not only are we disappointed in their lack of communication skills. (From the moment we checked in we were fed mis-information or no information at all.) We are also quite amused by how much interest this thread has generated. Initially my words were words of frustration at the poor service we had received over the first 2 days of our holiday. Less than 10 hrs after I made my post (but over 6 days after we had asked for an apology for the behaviour of the rep at the airport and on the bus - a request that was met with yet another shouting rep,) I asked to speak to the customer service manager. Not a shred of remorse on behalf of the company was shown. Wouldn't it have been great if I could have come back and said something like 'Well, the staff in resort are clearly a bit under-performing at the moment, but Ski Beat have had a word with them and sorted them out, and apologised for them and offered us a goodwill gesture. Good old Ski Beat!'
So. Note to any self-respecting holiday company - If you manage to pull off such terrible treatment of your guests that they want to discuss it with you at 4am - nip it in the bud! Do something about it asap. Don't shout at them, and then fail to communicate with them - even when they send numerous letters - until you send out a 'we don't want to talk to you' email 4 weeks after the event! I should point out that this was our first written correspondence from Ski Beat, and they declined to correspond with anyone except the group leader.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Likewise. And their T&Cs provide no defence to what Pandora etc are complaining about. It wasn't the snow that caused the shouty rep, the texting bus driver or the lack of communication. And, since the contract was to provide a holiday, the court will certainly be interested in distress and inconvenience - that's a loss that has been compensatable in damages since Jackson v Horizon Holidays [1975] 1 WLR 1468. I have no stake whatever in this dispute, by the way, I'm just deeply unimpressed and disappointed by how snide and unsupportive some people on this forum have been.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fee, not quite the same... Mr Jackson booked a package holiday for himself and his family. The accommodation and facilities were not in accordance with the statements about them in the brochure, and Mr Jackson claimed damages for breach of contract. HELD that the statements in the brochure were contractual, and that Mr Jackson could recover damages for his and his family's disappointment. So that case was about what the brochure said (ie what they were sold) v. what they got. Mis-selling in other words. IMV, very different to all of the above.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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If compensation is payable, I would be the first to wish the injured parties every success. It is not, however, for us to pre-judge disputes of which we only have anecdotal evidence presented by one side - presented, it has to be said, in an extremely 'shouty' (to use Fee's word) manner, a manner which appears for the moment, to have rebounded somewhat on the complainants.
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Bode Swiller, I was responding to your statement that "you'll need to prove your financial damage - a court isn't going to be much interested in hurt feelings or inconvenience". You seemed to be suggesting that distress and inconvenience were not regarded as "financial damage" which would be compensated in damages, which is not correct. Jackson is (just the first in a long line of) authority for that. And, as you point out, Jackson's claim was for breach of contract. Pandora's claim would be for breach of contract. Both are claims for loss caused by the difference between what is pronmised and what is delivered. No material distinction at all.
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a manner which appears for the moment, to have rebounded somewhat on the complainants.
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Hurtle, elegantly put. I too wish them well but I'd say they're stuffed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I suspect that there will be no winners in this case, only losers. - Pandora, Snowjoke osMum+ since they clearly feel wronged and disappointed, Ski Beat because mud sticks.
In a classic confrontation which has escalated to this extent, when both parties are feeling deeply wronged and have become belligerent and entrenched, in order to make progress normally one or both need an exit without loss of face. What we have here is a use of the internet to shift the balance of power such that both are evenly balanced in their misery - unlike last century when a large organisation could ignore a complaint (justified or not) on the grounds that however much hot air was vented, it wasn't going to do too much harm.
There is little that Pandora (and her now open box) plus party can do to redress the situation as it currently stands
I feel it needs Ski Beat to recognise the harm they may be doing themselves, and play the big man - apologize, offer some compensation, and get the hell out of it: possibly looking reasonably good. No matter who is right or wrong This isn't a willy-waving dispute when no-one gets hurt, this could affect a lot of employees if they don't see the bigger picture.
No matter how aggrieved they are that their customers went to the internet, prior to try to resolve the issue with the company (the rights and wrongs of which are debated at length on this thread) the point is they have it in their power to turn this into a good news story. To not do so is, imho, a missed opportunity and seriously poor decision making by their senior management.
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JimW, very fair points. (Nice classical allusion too. )
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FAQ
