 Poster: A snowHead
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Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 15-06-24 11:12; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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3 words:-
OH MY GOD! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Looks super scary to me! Respect. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wow.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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clearly one of the trickier blues in your resort - phew!!!!
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gulp
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Had a set squares next to the monitor and the slope appears to be around 60 degrees for the last picture. That is simply awesome. The 3rd picture shows the skier had one hand resting on the slope. It doesn't wet the appetile, It wets the pants.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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3rd picture
If the skier's hand is 1 m from normal ground level (with the ski on) and his hand was about 35cm away from the body then the slope would be 70 degrees. He was leaning slightly against the slope and so take away say 5 degrees that would make the slope around 65 degrees. Very impressive indeed. Let's us not forgetting the guy who took the excellent pictures too,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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philingle, perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us how steep you feel that that slope was? What do you feel is the steepest skiable slope?
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Skied by JMB way back in 1984 on 210cm straight skis. Before the glacier the slope is a drop of some 490 meters over 500 meters horizontal.
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You know it makes sense.
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God that makes it roughly a 45 degree slope. Unskiable according to some?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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philingle, To say the least, I am green with envy! Only 2 days before I had been talking about a trip to Chamonix with a guide friend and he was suggesting some routes and guess what, that was one. I suspect the trip is just a pipe dream but thanks for keeping it alive.
I am aware of the 45 degrees for 500m + but what is the rest like. I suspect from what I have been told there are a few sections at about 50+. Also, how did you handle the bottom?
I looked at your site and there is a real mix of stuff I have skied and stuff I wish to! What's next? Whymper?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've just realised that I've got my steepness mathematics all messed up. Not that 45 degrees isn't steep, it is, but 65 degrees is a lot steeper.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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philingle, Been looking at some of your other decents and the one that sticks out is the line next to poubelle. Totally insain exposure! Radical!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer,
Your 45 degree angle is correct according to davidof's information. Say 500m vertical drop against 500m horizontal is a perfect 45 degree.
My estimate of 65 degree is based on Picture No. 3. It is very rough (like the body was bending a bit and the shot cannot be directly above the skier etc) but that agrees well with the 60 degrees one can measure with Picture No. 4.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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...
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 15-06-24 11:13; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| philingle wrote: |
My IGN software gives me 540m drop over 520m length.
Phil |
Pretty much what I said. A very steep sustained route.
What is interesting about these kinds of slopes are when they are skied. When Boivin first skied the slope at the end of April 1984 he would have done this because his big fear would not have been falling but avalanches. So people like Baud, Saudan, Vallencant and Boivin saw extreme skiing as a late (or sometime early) season activity. Their long, straight skis gave them the grip they needed on harder snow.
Now we have a better understanding of avalanches (although even a sluff or small ice fall on Phil's route would be fatal) and better equipment these routes are much more practical in the winter - when of course you have the relative advantage of powder snow.
It is worth remembering that some of Boivin's routes are rarely repeated. Hard then, hard now.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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You are obviously not from the North of England because if you were you would have skied down without helmets and just wearing t-shirts.
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| davidof wrote: |
What is interesting about these kinds of slopes are when they are skied. When Boivin first skied the slope at the end of April 1984 he would have done this because his big fear would not have been falling but avalanches. So people like Baud, Saudan, Vallencant and Boivin saw extreme skiing as a late (or sometime early) season activity. Their long, straight skis gave them the grip they needed on harder snow.
Now we have a better understanding of avalanches (although even a sluff or small ice fall on Phil's route would be fatal) and better equipment these routes are much more practical in the winter - when of course you have the relative advantage of powder snow. |
Thought provocing stuff. I wonder how much this is also a reflection on changing conditions in the mountains. There seems to be far bigger gaps between storm systems which give the opportunity to see conditions stablise. maybe I am remembering things through rose tinted specs but back then fresh stuff seemed to be a little but often while today it seems to be a lot but less often.
Almost every serious decent I have done has been in the spring. Part of the reason is that access is easier. Skinning in deep soft snow or climbing as Phil is significantly harder than during the spring.
I also believe that we have a better understanding today of what makes the slope skiable. The true pioneers of extreme were really working in the dark and we have all benefitted from their knowledge. This even includes technique - moves that were considered revolutionary in the 70/80's are now taught to many.
What really has changed is that back then steepness was considered a barier and the danger. Now we know the limits it is now all about exposure and that is where I draw the line. Maybe its because I am older and have kids, but steepness now takes second place in my assessment to exposure. I am quite happy to ski extreme angles with low exposure (and hope I can still self arrest) while some lesser slopes with exposure I won't go near any more.
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By 'exposure' do you chaps mean how dangerous it is when you fall over?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| richmond wrote: |
| By 'exposure' do you chaps mean how dangerous it is when you fall over? |
Exactly. Fr'example on Phil's route a fall just above the ice climb would be serious. There is also the risk of very very small avalanches or rock or ice falls from above having very grave consequences. Look at the deaths of Eduoard Baud or Alain Geleon last year, two professionals at the top of their game.
As another example a group of Grenoble skiers called the BLMS triggered a slab they described as no bigger than a king sized bed, this was in a steep couloir in the Ecrins. One of the skiers lost his footing and slid 300 meters suffering an open fracture of the thigh as hit hit the sides of the slope. He was maybe lucky, a whole season ruined but 5 other people died in avalanches that day in the same area.
ok it is cold but sunny here, so I'm off skiing now
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philingle, Its skiing Captain - but not as we know it...... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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davidof, enjoy. Are you skiing the sort of stuff shown here?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| By 'exposure' do you chaps mean how dangerous it is when you fall over? |
As another example a group of Grenoble skiers called the BLMS triggered a slab they described as no bigger than a king sized bed, this was in a steep couloir in the Ecrins. One of the skiers lost his footing and slid 300 meters suffering an open fracture of the thigh as hit hit the sides of the slope. He was maybe lucky,..................... |
IMO, that type of exposure is acceptable. What isn't is a route with a cliff 20 metres below that if you lose it, you go over the cliff. The route photoed above looks as if the exposure, for the most part, is OK although as has been pointed out, the exit is rather severe.
Part of the challenge is not only to be able to understand the risks but also to get your brain to accept your analysis! It applies in choosing routes and it might be preferable to ski a very steep (50 degree) section with no exposure than a less steep (40 degree) with outrageous exposure. However, standing at the top of the steep one is still brown trouser stuff even if logic says you are safer!!
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Whenever I look at those pictures I feel the need to lie down very flat on the floor
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You know it makes sense.
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Sorry Ian Hopkinson, this bit of floor is already taken (jelly-knees a gave way before I got to the climbing pix). They did it on what - skis? Are you kidding???
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| richmond wrote: |
| davidof Are you skiing the sort of stuff shown here? |
I suspect the route is rated 5.4 (couloir 50-55 degrees); plus there is the short ice climb. It is too difficult for me. My comfort zone is to 4.3 (couloir skiing or very long slopes with short passages to 50 degrees).
This is what I did today:
http://www.frostybear.net/photopost/data/503/79dome.jpg
probably about a 25 degree slope.... max. I climbed the ridge on the right and skied down the ridge on the left. Still nice powder snow, warm sunshine and fresh air - ski rating 1.1!
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 1-03-05 18:40; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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philingle, what amazing photos ! jaysus - never thought i suffered from vertigo ....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Roughly how long does it take to climb up compared with how long it takes to come down (assuming that you don't come down on your @rse)?
davidof, the link doesn't work for me, and I'd like to see the 'photos.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have been thinking about this all day! Its certainly inspirational and at the same time, scary! 50 degrees for 500 metres is mindblowing. How would you compare it (if you can)with Poubelle. I guess poubelle is shorter, there are the rocks normally in the middle section and it is narrower but to me, the length of continued intensity must make this a significantly more challenging slope? It must also be a factor that you really have to earn your turns which, although there are obvious benefits, must add to the strenous nature of the decent.
For all the talk of steeps and exposure, the most pleasurable skiing this year was Heliskiing in Italy where we didn't really ski anything over 30 degrees (too unstable) but had really good powder for nearly 200 vertical metres. It doesn't have to be steep to be good. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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...
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 15-06-24 11:13; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ian Hopkinson,
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Whenever I look at those pictures I feel the need to lie down very flat on the floor
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If you turn your monitor on its side it looks like they are lying down.
philingle, No disrespect mate, but you are obviously completley out of your box
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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philingle,
Great pics, look forward to the next route's pics as well
davidof,
Link didn't work for me either, anyone else with this problem?
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philingle, please keep us posted. What you do looks fabulous but absolutely crazy simultaneously.
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