 Poster: A snowHead
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A dozen ski instructors caught teaching without a permit have been stopped at Vail and fined $525 each. The maximum potential penalty is $5000.
This report from Summit Daily News.
If you've taken instruction with an unofficial ski instructor at a ski resort, what was your experience? Do you consider it 'fair play'?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would consider it if the price is right and I felt the person was decent
thing is, if your learning from them, how can you evaluate their teaching 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I suppose the big two ways of evaluating their teaching, not necessarily knowing the technical ins/outs, would be:
Did I enjoy the lesson?
Do I feel more confident/comfortable with my skiing?
Okay, there are other aspects which make for a good lesson/detract from the quality of a lesson. However, nine times out of ten if you're more confident/comfortable, then you've probably improved your technique anyway.
As for fair play or otherwise... I think it depends on the situation. Meeting appropriate qualifications criteria is a must, however, beyond that, I think it's slightly more contextual - who owns the land etc? I'd like to have the ability to stop someone teaching horse riding in my garden for example...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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When I worked on Cairngorm in the mid-1970s the ski school concerned (Weekend Ski Club) was one of about eight on the mountain, and I don't recall that there were any restrictions on anyone else teaching. I can't see that insurance is a relevant point - if the lift company wants to establish that an instructor is insured they can make that a condition of selling a liftpass.
There's a whiff of 'restricted practice' about what Vail are doing and - as I understand it - this is effectively public land leased to the ski area. People will always gravitate towards 'official' ski schools, since they are so prominent on the mountain and have prominent meeting places. It seems a shame to prevent a qualified instructor from doing freelance work on anyone's mountain.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is it not the case in the states that the companies that run ski centres tend to run their own ski schools and ban any other organisation from using their uplift for instruction? This is what I recall being the case at Mammonth and if so does this not effectively mean a ban on any ski school other than the 'official' one?
Ernst Goldsmith, there are still no restrictions at Cairngorm despite the fact that apparently some ski schools seem to have a habit of hiring people who are not actually qualified (and can be paid less)! I hasten to add that every instructor working for The Ski and Snowboard School (link in my sig below) is professionally qualified with BASI or an equivalent body (in fact I can't think of anyone who is not BASI but there may be some PSIA/CSIA etc.). As far as I know Cairngorm Mountain Ltd., I am told despite being aware that there are unqualified 'instructors' working on the mountain, do not check anyone's credentials or insurance status - this is left to the individual ski school.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Interesting. That's exactly how it was 34 years ago. I was an unqualified instructor on Cairngorm for 4-5 months, then did the BASI at the end of the season.
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^ Also interested to read your comment about the situation 34 years ago - what strikes me in the present day is how well, if at all, such 'instructors' are covered for liability. As you'll be aware if qualified BASI (or another professional body) provides cover but if not qualified I wonder what the situation is!
It also strikes me it's a bit naughty to sell lessons at a standard price to people when the instructor isn't actually qualified and I've noted most of the 'other' ski schools working on Cairngorm don't mention whether or not their people are qualified, I think the Loch Insch instructors would be though given the guy in charge is a BASI trainer.
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Right now, looking at the extraordinary snow conditions on Cairngorm, I should think any ski schools are struggling to find anyone to teach (although the employment situation in the Alps is presumably not good at the moment). So that may partly explain why there's such a laissez faire approach, to this day.
When I was up in Aviemore last year, the place felt markedly less like a ski town than it did when I worked there in the 1970s. Such a high proportion of the ski trade had been wiped out by poor winters in the intervening years. A couple more good winters and the place will be 'back to normal'!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ernst Goldsmith wrote: |
| Right now, looking at the extraordinary snow conditions on Cairngorm, I should think any ski schools are struggling to find anyone to teach (although the employment situation in the Alps is presumably not good at the moment). So that may partly explain why there's such a laissez faire approach, to this day. |
Yes, you may have a point there but The Ski and Snowboard School certainly make sure all their guys are professionally qualified (being part of the BASI Kitemark scheme means they have to, leaving aside the fact they want to ensure quality of instruction anyway) and have done, as far as I know, since their inception.
| Quote: |
| When I was up in Aviemore last year, the place felt markedly less like a ski town than it did when I worked there in the 1970s. Such a high proportion of the ski trade had been wiped out by poor winters in the intervening years. A couple more good winters and the place will be 'back to normal'! |
I hope so, given the winters continue like this (fingers crossed), I can also remember those halcyon days when Aviemore was a full on ski town but this year it's certainly been feeling like a snowsports village and there are still plenty of facilities in the place. For all it's faults though I do miss the old centre, I remember the day when there were Intersport hire outlets there (the old Cairdsport shop IIRC) and the winter season was as, if not more, important than the summer one. These days the place has rightly diversified and there's loads more to do in both winter and summer but there's still a pretty unique (for the UK) snowsports culture in the valley, something that shouldn't be lost IMHO.
BTW, have you seen the Auld Aviemore website? Brings back a few memories for me!
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| Ernst Goldsmith wrote: |
When I worked on Cairngorm in the mid-1970s the ski school concerned (Weekend Ski Club) was one of about eight on the mountain, and I don't recall that there were any restrictions on anyone else teaching. I can't see that insurance is a relevant point - if the lift company wants to establish that an instructor is insured they can make that a condition of selling a liftpass.
There's a whiff of 'restricted practice' about what Vail are doing and - as I understand it - this is effectively public land leased to the ski area. People will always gravitate towards 'official' ski schools, since they are so prominent on the mountain and have prominent meeting places. It seems a shame to prevent a qualified instructor from doing freelance work on anyone's mountain. |
You may think so. It appears that the federal legislators disagree with you - and US Federal law tends to prevail over Goldsmith opinion in the States.
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| Anyone — including hunting, rafting, hiking or snowmobiling guides — who makes money in exchange for services on public land without a permit is breaking federal law, says Forest Service ranger Don Dressler. |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'd hardly call that illiberal... thoroughly justified by the sound of it.
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