 Poster: A snowHead
|
Authorities in Westendorf, Austria, are investigating an incident in which a 10-year-old Irish girl was seriously injured after falling from a chairlift when the safety bar was raised. A German couple on the same chair, seen clinging to the girl before she fell, reportedly then failed to explain the chain of events.*
This report from Telegraph.co.uk
------
* Edit - see comments of 6 Jan below
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 6-01-10 9:45; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Does not look good from what is written.
Suggests they are either at fault or callous or both.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I know there have been threads on this topic before, but I'm not keen on being asked to look after some random ankle-biter on a chairlift: the potential legal liability worries me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
| I know there have been threads on this topic before, but I'm not keen on being asked to look after some random ankle-biter on a chairlift: the potential legal liability worries me. |
Unless you're really very, very tall, a ten year old is not really classified as an ankle-biter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
greg66, yep, I accept my comment was slightly off-topic. Apologies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
My ironic nature say's never trust a German.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You would think any 10 year old no matter how experienced should be with a guardian when on a chairlift.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saintstephen, true, but you wouldn't expect a 10-year-old to just fall off a chairlift either... that's usually reserved for, as Hurtle says, anklebiters.
I got given one when I was in France, the littlest in the group, I didn't take any chances, had to pick him up and plonk him on the chair seat, kept a hand close by the whole way up. Said hello and how are you to him and told him I was English. He then counted to 10 for me very nicely in English and was really happy when I said well done. Was v cute!! But would still not like to have to stop one from falling off a chair... though this one was all clothes and no body-weight!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| saintstephen wrote: |
| You would think any 10 year old no matter how experienced should be with a guardian when on a chairlift. |
When children's group lessons use chairlifts, it is common practice to send them up one-by-one on chairs containing adults.
Must have been awful for the kid  Hope she recovers without any permanent disability.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
More on this story ...
... from Irish Independent
| Quote: |
| It is understood that Emily was sitting on the chair-lift alongside a friend, but both are in shock and cannot remember what caused the safety bar to rise. |
The main thing is that Emily O'Rourke, the 10-year-old involved, is expected to make a full recovery.
Of course, one possibility is that the safety bar was never closed in the first place, or it wasn't possible to close it. The father of the girl, Frank O’Rourke, says:
| Quote: |
| “The people involved I think did a tremendous amount to help as much as they could, but after the fall didn’t want to get involved any further and wanted to leave. Unfortunately they didn’t leave their names. If we met them we’d only like to thank them and get clarification of what happened.” |
Source of that quote: Irish Times
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
We noticed last season in the Ski Amade that many lifts had an angled light system that indicated when the bar should be raised. I had heard that folks were getting bollockings for lifting the bar early. I thought the system was very good.
There was also a lift on which the bar was automatically released as the lift reached the station. Took a bit of getting used to and caused quite a bit of panic amongst the thick 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Something doesn't quite add up about this story, and there's a sense of spin involved. The lift company says it wanted to speak to the couple, but I'd have thought it was really the responsibility of independent investigators (i.e. the police, if anyone). Maybe the design or function of the chair was a factor. We know that children slip under safety bars. The German couple may have no blame attached to them at all. Maybe they will surface and we'll get closer to the truth on this one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Presumably due to my kind face and cheerful clown-like demeanour, I get handed tiny wee nippers all the bloody time on chairlifts. I find it completely terrifying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
New lifts in Paradiski are fitted with a plastic kidie bar on the main bar on the inside seat.
Most (but not all) instructors now offer you a child rather than assuming you want one
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Someone we met a few years ago had a similar sort of incident on the lift out of Les Gets but at the bottom. Small child was put on next to him, but it started to slide down the seat under the bar. He grabbed hold of it and his wife was shouting back at the lifties to stop the lift, he was holding the back of the child's suit at the neck part. He is a big guy but said it was just impossible to get hold of the child itself to pull it back up - eventually before the lift had risen too far up the slope he did let go as he was concerned that he would not be able to hold on as he went higher and that the drop would get bigger. Also that he might just strangle the child holding the suit at the neck area.
The lift was eventually stopped when the lifties noticed what was happening but it was a nasty experience all round and the people we met were rightly upset by the whole thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
when on a lift I often fantasise about falling face first into the snow 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
A friend of ours just plopped off the lift as it took off in Avoriaz - he was in the middle of his wife and one of her girlfriends. We were in the chair behind. While he picked himself up from the luckily big pile of soft snow, they just carried on chatting and put the bar down, as if they had not noticed his departure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Pamski, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Whenever I sit next to a child, I always think I'm going to arrive at the top lift station with a kid swinging below the chair held only by thier hood. I've alway been asked by the the lft guys even if it's only a nod and thumbs up gesture.
adrian
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
If this was in the UK, then it wouldn't be allowed for children to be put into the care of an adult on a ski lift, as the adults would all need to be CRB checked first.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
[Doesn't stand for Chairlift Raised Bar]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I had a similar experience in Wengen, accompanying two ~6 year old swiss ski-skoolers / race clubbers. One seemed to just "disappear" as the other and I skied of the ramp...I had no idea what had happened in that first second of terror...in the second second I had no idea what the German for stop was..."STOP..ARETTEZ...ATTENDEZ"...surely not (war film image of road block comes into mind), yes... HALT!! When the chairlift stopped I looked back and this head pops up behind the ramp..behind a very guilty looking grin - he had jumped too early! Instructor followed apologising profusely to me (!)...she shouted at the boy...I just wanted to ski away..the image of that head popping up behind the ramp still makes me feel a bit queezy (horror / happiness).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There was once where I found myself in the middle of a bunch of ski school kids on a chairlift....so elected to carry on rather than wait....so had to look after a little girl and her younger sister up the chairlift; can't remember where - Meribel maybe.....I vaguely recall they were French kids...
I scooted over to the middle so that I had a kid on each side - the elder sister was fine - she was about 6 or 7 and tall enough to plonk herself on the seat on my right. Her little sister was on my left - chair was coming round fast, as I noticed she was shuffling her feet quickly moving fowards .....but the chair seat-height was way above her bum and at the height of her back....
....the edge of the chairlift area was approaching fast, the liftie wasn't paying attention, and I could see the chair knocking this wee girl (can't be more than 4 or so years, maybe 5 yrs - diff to tell with helmet and goggles on!) face forwards into the snow....worse still the chair snagging on her suit etc. I had to think fast.....
....so I just reached across and grabbed the front of her suit at the tummy area, and yanked hard and up to lift her onto her seat.....then pushed her back into the seat and lowered the bar.....
She then rubbed her nose and said "Merci Monsieur merci..." I think....
I was worried at the other end as her legs wouldn't reach the ground for her to be able to safely get off.....so there was I prepared to lift her off using my hands under her armpits, my poles under my armpits etc....
But somehow (stroke of luck) there was a raised area at the top and she confidently shuffled across and did a quick hop off as the lift was slowed by the liftie at the top and got off fine - phew!! Thank God the liftie at the top who was on the ball.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Try sharing a T bar with a 4 year old...
It can be difficult to stop young kids faffing about near the top of a chairlift - or turning to see their friends behind them which usually leads to them slipping forwards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I was told to always put my poles across the lap of any small child placed in my care on the lift to stop them slipping off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Get your poles and hold them across the kid
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Poor Emily - she will be sore for a week or two.
We went through the same experience when Jon was 13, he aslo fell just over 30 foot off a lift in Austria and had two broken bits (L1 and T3) but was back on skis the following year.
Fourtunately they do bounce at that age. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
It's interesting that universal standards of retaining kids safely on chairlifts haven't been adopted, given the number of accidents (falls) that seem to be occurring. I'm thankful my kids didn't go through this - it's absolutely awful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| genepi wrote: |
| I was told to always put my poles across the lap of any small child placed in my care on the lift to stop them slipping off. |
Care to explain that further? I would have thought that to be effective, you would have to have your arms around the child so that you were holding the poles at both ends - not only difficult, but these days open to misinterpretation. However, I accept I may have missed something.
I would have thought that the best way to sop a slipping child would be to grab it between the legs - and get into trouble with parents/police/the law as a result, even if the child was kept safe. So far, I have been OK - just the occasional arm across the front of the child when I have been concerned that it was shuffling forward too early.
If this thread actually comes up with a definitive acceptable way of keeping a toddler safe on a chair, it will be great.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
My eldest is 6 and needs a bit of help to shuffle to the back of the seat when she jumps on and a gentle shove to get off as her legs are too little! We are just back from LDA and she was bunged on a lift with her ski school group with a lady who wasn't briefed as to what she needed to do.... end result at the top of the lift lady got off and M couldn't and almost went round to head back down again (luckily lift person sorted things out somehow or other.... daughter not really clear on details!!)
As a not very experienced skier I was glad that the first child I took on a lift was my own so I worked out where the danger points were - not sure I would have taken someone elses child without such 'training'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Ahh this is my biggest fear! Daughter going to Austria in 3 weeks, and will be her first chair experience! Not to mention the language barrier etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
To be fair to all the instructors I observed at LDA they were obviously selective as to who they offered children to and did say what was required if person asked - equally all the lift operators were very much on the look out when a group of children was on the lift.
My tactic was to put my arm round the back of the chair so I could easily grab their ski-suit midway if required and was also positioned to help them off if they needed it ... only moved it to lift the bar which I insisted was my job (can you tell I was partnered with 'I'm not small- I know what I'm doing' English kids several times!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
i was in westendorf last year and this hot ski instructor asked me to accompany this 4 yr old girl up the chair. she was tiny and could hardly reach the seat so i had to lift her on and off, but being british (kid was german) you seem to have this fear of picking up small children incase you may be accused, since we live in a country where every man eating lunch in a park is thought to be a pervert.
catch my drift? id just rather not be responsible (unless the instructor is fit!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I try not to be the sole adult on the chairlift when looking after a child - I make sure my mate is with me, or at the very least other children who are a bit older and can manage to hop on and off themselves.....unless I'm in the queue and there is no choice and I have to go up with very young children or hold up the queue.
There was one time a couple of years ago I had a brother and sister on the chair with me - boy was 6-7 and his sister was 8 years old I think, as I was the only adult there and the ski instructor asked me to take them - their parents were behind, with aunt and uncle etc. They were muttering away in English so I helped out.....the girl was experienced, but the boy I had to help on a little, and also push him into the seat. No problems with mum or dad or uncle/aunt as the girl was yakking away with me about Girls Aloud and other stuff and telling me about her holiday and where her chalet was etc....I guess I must have a trustworthy face but children don't often discriminate who they tell what.....lucky I am an upstanding citizen with CRB clearance!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
landlockedpirate ROFL....... brilliant. sorry, i laughed
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
made me laugh too.
My girlfriend and I were given an anklebiter each on our hols recently. Slightly worrying at first but once the kid sat back from the edge all was good. Until he started singing some french rubbish in a high pitched voice. There nearly was an accident then
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I had a little girl about 5 sitting next to me on a lift and whe nwe got to the top she suddenly got scared and wouldn't jump off. She was about to get carried back down so I turned, lifted her under the armpits and then feeling myself losing balance I fell over backwards ensuring that she landed right on my stomach. She was unhurt and just skied off to the group... I was a little bit winded.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
the lifty was alert and the kid was ok 