 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, Well yes, but I've known that for years 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN, interesting. They rank quite highly in my list of next pair of skis to buy and these few words may have nudged them up a place or two 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN, As fast as my Chiefs ? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, had a quick run on the sis-in-laws, as I persuaded her to buy a pair purely on my recommendation. Very nice (177cm) - a little short for me - I think I prefer my Rip'n'wuds but it's a close run thing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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ski, I guess we'll find out next month?
Sideshow_Bob, I think you'll love them - off-piste skis with a race pedigree (same construction as the RaceTiger). They feel way more racy and versatile than either the Legend Pros or DP Pros, although I'm a better skier now that when I last skied either of those.
The reason for getting these is that I killed my (not so) trusty Black Diamond Kilowatts a couple of days before Xmas. I'd broken an edge last season and had them repaired a couple of times. After a couple of rock hits took out some of the patch over the repair I guess it was only a matter of a very short time before the repair pulled away, and at the end of one day I saw about 20cm of edge hanging out. I think the skis were getting a bit tired as well, as the on piste performance had become truly crap - so while I had been hoping to get another season out of them it was time to bite the bullet. I'd been thinking about the Mantras for a while, as they were just about the same dimensions as the Kilowatts, and a brief test at Hemel had been encouraging. I'd also been thinking about Fischer Watea 94s, as they're supposed to be quite light as well, but I couldn't find any. First I took a pair of the Mantras in 184 (with Freeride+ bindings) out on a powder day with a guide. First run or two they felt great: nice and stiff to power through lumps and bumps (it was pretty low vis), and would glide over the top when you just wanted to surf. When we eventually got onto a piste the race pedigree just jumped out - just stunning edge hold. Finish with a virgin powder slope and the sink and float felt wonderful - like skiing through feather pillows. The only slight concern was that I did feel I was having to always hang a bit back otherwise the tips did have a tendency to dive.
The following day I tried some Dynastar Mythic Riders. Overnight it had rained up to about 2000m, and we were skiing from 2400 to 1500 in dreadful vis, so a stiff test. While I do like Dynstar skis, these just didn't have anything like the security of the Mantras - not only the lesser float (as they are narrower), but they didn't have anything like the positive drive or edge feel of the Mantras. And when back on piste they did feel like off-piste skis, with nothing like the grip of the Mantras.
So back to the first shop, but maybe I should try them in the longer length? I was slightly wary of this as in my two previous experiences of 190cm skis (Atomic R9s and Movement Pow Pows) they had felt very unwieldy. Unfortunately the only pair with Freeride+s were the XL length and too long for my boots, so I had to have conventional Salomon rental bindings. Within 30 seconds of putting these on though, I knew they were the skis for me. On piste I could pull genuine GS racing turns on them, and off piste there was the positive thrust without the tip-dive worry of the shorter skis. So definite purchase decision made. The downside of this being I needed both new skins and ski-bag - both of mine being too short.
So I've been skiing these now for the last week in a variety of conditions - deep heavy powder, chop, slight rain crust, artificial snow piste and fresh moguls of varying sizes. These are skis that need driving, try to let them ski themselves and they'll do nothing for you. On flat powder they can surf over the top beautifully, but you can power them through if you want to as well. On steep chopped up slopes and crusty stuff I could launch into turns with engaging the tips well before the fall line, and either power out of the end of the turn, or ride it round for control while working out the snow conditions for the next turn with complete security. They do prefer mid and long-radius turns, but you can do short stuff well enough by working the tips good and hard. One comment made by the guide on that first test day, who turned out to be a dedicated Voelkl man, was that their tails have a unique feel and skiability. I had a couple of occasions when I made massive mistakes and ended way in the back seat - to find that I could carry on skiing perfectly adequately on the tails through the recoveries, something I've never felt with any other ski. This allows you to throw them into just about any situation with a high degree of confidence you'll ride it out - if you're strong enough - but they don't make the ride easy as do something like Zags or Missions. While nowhere near as agile as a slalom ski in the moguls the torsional rigidity gave a great edge hold and feel of control for a wide ski. Unfortunately that encouraged me to ski it like a slalom ski in some developing bumps in poor light, resulting in a caught downhill edge and a slam-dunk fall onto my shoulder nearly finished my season almost before it had started. It's still sodding painful, but recovering day by day.
Only two minor concerns: 1) they're a fair bit heavier than I intended to buy, so I may need a different solution for any touring much more than the odd couple of hours; 2) the pair I purchased don't have quite the edge hold of the demo pair. I initially put this down to the Freeride+ rather than the alpine bindings, and the factory tune being not quite as good as the demo setup. RPF did though remark on the low degree of camber on these skis, so maybe there's something wrong there - something I should have checked before I returned home, but I'll have a look at a couple more pairs when I can. This only really affects the on-piste performance, and probably helps the off-piste peformance anyway.
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I'm pretty sure the factory tune is your problem.... How are you finding their livelyness? I found them super confidence inspiring when I tried the 06/07s, but also so damp and heavy I just didn't get the feedback I was used to. No idea how much theyve changed either in the last few seasons.
Good to read feedback and impressions from racey types, too
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DaveC, GrahamN was a tourer/big-mountain skier long before he started racing IIRC
GrahamN, what's the radius on the 190s? One of the things I don't really like about my LPs is the feeling they'll tip-dive and having to sit back so I wonder whether I'll find the Mantra similar.
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Sideshow_Bob, according to Telemark Pyrenees, the radius is 24.8m. Unusually for modern skis it's not actually marked on the ski, so I didn't really know when I bought them, but that's absolutely perfect for what I want from an off-piste ski. As for tip dive, I think you'll have to try them for yourself. They're certainly more willing to dive than say the Zags, but that's fairly inherent with being a stiff ski with good piste performance. Maybe the compromise would be to have a ski built like this but with about 20cm of rocker on the front. I do wonder whether that would cause them to hook up rather too much in heavy stuff though, and so make them way more tricky. One of the things I really like with these (and the Kilowatts) is being able to really commit to the tips on a cruddy slope and know that they won't collapse when you hit a more solid block. The flex on these does feel nicely even (and stiff-solid) right from the tip to the tail, which makes their crud performance (not that we had any serious crud, just a bit of rain crust) nicely predictable. Coming down the second half of the main pitch on "Stairway to Heaven" (this was all in Verbier) I really drove the skis hard with a good solid forward balance (although not as hard as in say in a GS course) and they performed great. Pushing on the tips that hard when going slower or in really light powder is probably not advisable though, and a slightly rear-balanced surfing style seemed best then.
DaveC, yes, as Sideshow_Bob says, my first love is big/all-mountain stuff and the racing is really just a sideline, but it is nice to be able to put it out there on piste on occasion. I'm at home now, so will be giving them a good tune this week, prior to next weekend in Chamonix  .
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mounted up a pair of 184 08/09's for tele skiing and just skied them the past 3 days of fresh snow absolutely love them, they have responded well in all the conditions I threw at them.
As GrahamN, mentions they hold well at speed on groomers, too. I also noted the low level of camber but they don't ski like a flat ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A big fan of Volkl skis in general.
The Mantra's are incredibly stable at speed on a big carved GS turn, or maybe even longer (184cm), never felt anything quite like it, but then I haven't skied a lot of different skis.
They are just a bit too much orientated to off piste for my taste, I really missed having something a bit stiffer on the piste, because despite my best intentions, I still end up spending quite some time on piste. The AC range is the perfect ski for me (that I have tried so far). I have a pair of AC20s which are brilliant allround, and I find them perfectly good off piste too, as are my old 724 pro's, though these are a little sketchy on real hard pack and a bit more tricky off piste, but still great fun, I just really love a good cranked carve and a nice pop at the end. Wondering if I should venture to a more race orientated ski for even greater pleasure I guess it's horses for courses, but the Mantra's just didn't put a grin on my face all the time.
Shameless plug - mine are for sale, see appropriate forum.
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Anyone know where there are any good deals on (new) Mantras with bindings at the mo?
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You know it makes sense.
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Just out of interest, is there a difference between the 2009 and 2010 models apart from graphics?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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monotokpoint, all my usual suspects seem to have them at the same price, selling them bare for £449. Even Telemark-Pyrenees come out at about the same price - although they seem to be the only ones to have the 191cm if you want those (all the UK outlets seem to stop at 184). EB are packaging them with Tyrolia Peak 12s for £550, Lockwoods with Dukes (but seem to list only the 170s). As for your follow-up, I thought I saw somewhere that they'd added another titanium sheet this year, but I can't find that reference now and EB's page says they're unchanged, so maybe that comment referred to last years's model. Contrary to my usual habit of getting the ugliest skis on the market in any particular year, I really like the inlaid graphics on this year's model; while I'm normally a depressingly sensible guy I'm actually having to stop myself stroking them every time I pass them  .
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Poster: A snowHead
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Great to hear GrahamN
I bought myself a pair of Volkl Mantra 184's with K2 Marker Griffon Bindings just before Christmas on the advice of my Verbier ski instructor after having a very short ski on a pair of 177's - which were fantastic - and am looking forward to testing them out for the first time on 20th Jan when I go for my next trip.
Hope that I am as enamoured by them as you clearly seem to be!!
TG
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 17-01-10 21:08; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cool thanks guys, v useful. I think I have found myself a pair of 09 model for just over 400 Euros delivered (with Marker M20 Freeride bindings), and that sounds like quite a good deal to me. Here goes...! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN, I have noticed another example of a 184 with more camber than the 191. I'll see if I can get a closer look tomorrow as I'm skiing with the owners of each.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN, out of interest did you try the Katanas?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sideshow_Bob, no, not sure the shop had any, and with ski hire at £30/day I wasn't going to spend too long trying out stuff (they're also quite a bit wider than I was really looking for). They did have some Line skis that they suggested may be a possibility, and I I was also peing pointed in the direction of the Crusairs as well, but I started out quite keen on the Mantra as it was virtually the same shape as the Kilowatts, and that seemed to suit me well in the choppy stuff. Another ski that I was being recommended was a Blizzard Titan, but I wasn't at all convinced they had a system that would allow the Freerides to be mounted on them, desipite their assurances. The ski I regret not trying was the Watea 94, but I don't remember seeing any in any shop I looked in.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN, ah, shame. I'd heard the previous year Katanas described as a fat Mantra but this year they seem to have changed the construction and given it a continuous rocker like a Gotama, making it worse for touring and hard-pack performance.
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FAQ
Unfortunately I also had a slam dunk onto my left shoulder last april and ended the season right there and then 
