 Poster: A snowHead
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(yes i know i talk elsewhere on here about making things simpler - not more complex - but ...)
For those of us that are better in some stages of a carved turn than other stages of teh turn. has anyone ever tried varying edge sharpness along the length of a ski ???
When i am tired, or my bad knees and damaged achilles are not up to skiing properly, i end up with an agreesively edged first part fo a turn and a skidded second half of the turn.
What would happen if i let the edges on teh front half of my skis "blunt" and only edged the back ends. Would that work at all, or would i just end up still skidding the second half of teh turn, and not steering the first half ???
[You can tell i've started on teh beer/wine!]
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sev112 wrote: |
| When i am tired, or my bad knees and damaged achilles are not up to skiing properly, i end up with an agreesively edged first part fo a turn and a skidded second half of the turn. |
Sounds more like you should slow down. You "may" be carving the 1st section of the turn then (when facing down the fall line) rotating your hips and shoulders. This is a normal reaction when going too fast or too steep or when skiing outside a comfort zone. People will pull back from something that is scary - again normal - on skis this has the effect of moving your weight back and (in an effort to get back into a comfort zone) "swinging" round to slow down - in this case it sounds like you're skidding the last section of the turn more in an attempt to speed yourself into a safe (or lesss strained) feeling rather than anything to do with the sharpness of your skis.
Just an idea, so may be way out
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wayne,
How's Trentino - seen Bode Miller lately ? Sorry poor joke !
I think it's more to do with how i used to ski when i couldnt ski very well, and occasionally you slip back into bad habits, especially whne the damaged knees tell me that it's time to stop for the day at 3pm, and you want to ski to last lifts. When that happend its easier to get into "stiff/upright" body mode as well and then in comes a skid. But i guess its very related to the case you suggest. Actually i carve properly when i do shift my weight; tend to skid when leaning too far forward for too long.
Cheers
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| sev112 wrote: |
For those of us that are better in some stages of a carved turn than other stages of teh turn. has anyone ever tried varying edge sharpness along the length of a ski ???
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Learn how to park and ride. Do NOT change your skis.
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When i am tired, or my bad knees and damaged achilles are not up to skiing properly, i end up with an agreesively edged first part fo a turn and a skidded second half of the turn.
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Learn how to park and ride. Do NOT change your skis.
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What would happen if i let the edges on teh front half of my skis "blunt" and only edged the back ends. Would that work at all, or would i just end up still skidding the second half of teh turn, and not steering the first half ???
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Badness.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sharpen your skis and take some lessons 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you're really carving the beginning of the turn then you may not be controlling pressure at the end of the turn very effectively. If your outside/downhill leg is too straight and stiff at the end of the turn you'll lose the edge hold. You may also be over-rotating the end of the turn so causing a skid.
Modifying equipment to make up for a technique issue can only make things worse. 
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sev112, You could just try 3 degree edges with a 2 degree for the front and/or rear of the skis.
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Scarpa, you are evil
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Scarpa, side edge angle does nothing to make a ski grabby or not...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ha ha ha ha - finally managed to start a controversial tehcnical debate 
i finally crossed the skid / carve boundary several seasons ago, and it took me to study both the physics of the sk and edge, and the biomechanics of varying pressure using my ankle and knee bend - i'm just weird that way : teh same with golf , can;t accept a good shot unless i know why and how
PS dont think i would do anything to my skis oni my own - leave them to someone sensible to play with ; i have enough fun/trouble changing my simple cant and buckle settings on my boots - nbow there's another argument waiting to happen
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, I didn't mean that it was more grabby until engaged, I kinda got my terminology a little mixed up ... just that as you enter a turn and engage the edge the ski bites in a little more firmly. I found a huge difference in a floppy ski (old B2) when I changed from a 2 to a 3 degree edge angle. I did keep the base angle at 0.5 I think (please excuse hazy recall).
What I was meaning to say was that if the poster had a higher edge angle at the rear or the ski that may encourage and indeed assist completion of the turn if they were lessening the pressure halfway though the turn. It was meant a teensy bit tounge in cheek. 
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On the subject of sharpening edges I was amazed in my local shop, v good reputation, the guy was blunting the front and rear 6 inches of the edge. I was under the impression that this was old school, or maybe for beginners to allow them to skid turns easier. Is this common/good practice?
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You know it makes sense.
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Fifespud, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Question ?
I normally (slightly) de-tune the top and bottom edge of my lesson skis (make learner speed/drills a litte easier)
There are a number of thoughts on this - from the contact point to the top/bottom (which I never do) - from just above/below the top/bottom contact point.
Any ideas from any experts on tuning or de-tuning on here
How much / what leghth of de-tune is too much / not enough etc ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wayne, no claim to be an expert but I specifically don't (and never have) detuned. I don't believe it's as relevant (if at all) with shaped skis.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I just do it as I spend that long each day with the ski going sideways - keeps my old knees in one piece
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wayne,
i gave up trying to keep the knees in one piece - i have grown quite used to the sound of various bits of them floating around and creaking ! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wayne, I was taught that too, but don't bother now.
I do de-bur after tuning, and have on occasion had really horrible grabby ski's back from service shops where they haven't been de-bured. Before I was wiser I was told de-tuning helped fix grabby ski's.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wayne, That is the idea behind varying the edge angle. The tips and tails are still sharp to prevent skidding but don't bite to quite the same extent.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What about varying base bevel - more tip and tail bevel less underfoot
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little tiger, That would probably work better if grabbiness was an issue 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Scarpa, That is the way I understood is optimal to resolve problem - not the easiest to do I understood... I believe Stockli race skis used to come from the factory with a "graded" base bevel... the word was to avoid tuning for as long as possible to retain original characteristics... then to get someone to hand tune base and edges that had experience in these types of skis...
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Scarpa, ah sorry gotcha now. yes i agree that a 3 vs 2 degree side angle with give you more "purchase" and better edge hold. definately made a noticeable difference to me when i tested it out on my skis and i use 3 for everything now. "detuning" is ancient history IMO. i have heard of people blending base bevel but you would have to be a very good skier to work a ski that well that it would make much odds.
My new SL skis have 0 degree bases which was kinda weird and "hooky" at first but i really like em now that i am used to them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| My new SL skis have 0 degree bases which was kinda weird and "hooky" at first but i really like em now that i am used to them. |
Question for ya: are you getting rid of the 'hookiness' by stabilisation at the hip or at the ankle?
Would they be 'hookier' in tighter boots without room for ankle wiggle?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, i would say trying to stabilise more near the feet and have tried to be really conscious of what is going on directly underfoot so i guess the ankle. but to be honest i only have used em indoors at low speeds. my boots are fairly sloppy laterally due to a lot of wear in the plates so i would say probably more hoookier the tighter the fit. when i was on my head magnums with 1deg base indoors they felt almost sloppy in comparison...
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