 Poster: A snowHead
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The stuff I'm talking about are the conditions you find...
Off piste - not like slush on the piste where you have a firm base beneath to ski on.
Deep slush that doesn't take a pole plant (maybe I need bigger baskets) and is a nightmare to get up from.
Really slows your skis down - always a pleasant surprise when hitting it from colder/firmer snow 
Knackers you out really quickly.
Technique I've tried to use up till now...
Feet closer together, keep the speed up, try to use natural features to upweight skis out of their trenches and keep my core strong.
I did the Warren Smith course a couple of years ago and my mate in another class did a day of this stuff (we were on high N facing slopes so didn't get exposed to it in lesson time) and said "Just do what you normally do, try releasing downhill ski and driving the inner thigh around". This I found difficult as it felt like the downhill ski had become rail roaded and was difficult to drive around.
What I'm looking at is being able to slow my pace down and turn where I want to turn, with min effort. As opposed to resorting to mach 2 and natural features to unweight.
Any pointers gratefully recieved.
Cheers
BB
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bucking bronco, Focusing on turn shape and size will be the key. From your post am I right in thinking that it's starting the new turn that's the issue ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Don't turn.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yep - you got it. Also coming to a quick stop in the stuff is a nightmare.
On steep slopes it's a lot easier - it's the flatter stuff I suffer on.
Also on my fat skis it's a lot easier - but when I'm on my 75mm waisted ones then I'm knackered!
Cheers
BB
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bucking bronco, seriously, the fewer turns the better. And if it's the flatter stuff then less need to turn anyway.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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bucking bronco, so as beanie1 says, more open,longer turns. If you are getting tired it may be because you are using a lot of 'active' leg rotation ie, trying to turn your ski's with muscular effort. Perhaps go for a more 'carved' turn on flatter sections, using more 'edge' or 'tilt' on the ski's, and allowing them to turn you.
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What beanie1 says.
And speed.
And don't turn your skis as much across your body - a maximum of 35 degrees relative the direction of travel. Otherwise they tend to trip you up.
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| bucking bronco wrote: |
| "Just do what you normally do, try releasing downhill ski and driving the inner thigh around". This I found difficult as it felt like the downhill ski had become rail roaded and was difficult to drive around. |
Doesn't sound like you were releasing enough.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Are you tired because your thighs are burning? Sounds like you might be in the backseat.
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why would you want to thigh drive off in slush, i know it a WSA mantra but sounds dumb to me in those conditions, keep em close together and surf the turns with retracting the legs. smile and enjoy skiing sluch is fun.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks for the tips
beanie1, fewer turns, yep - at the moment that's what I do, keep the speed up and make big turns.
david@mediacopy, open up the turns, exactly what I do to cope now, when I up the pace all I do is essentially GS turn down, essentially carving and using the shape of the ski to dictate the turn. I'm after a technique that will allow me to pick my way through rocks/gullies/bushes when they get a bit tight.
DB, backseat, yep - I have to watch getting into the back seat, but I think the reason I get knackered is when I try to slow the pace down and get tighter turns in I can't just lean the skis over so I resort to trying to bounce and upweight on the rebound and get them around
FlyingStantoni, don't turn skis across direction of travel, years ago when begining to venture beyond the ropes I learnt this the hard way after faceplanting, the only way I've managed is to pick where I'm going to stop in plenty of time and reduce speed slowly. Is there anyway of stopping in this stuff quickly a la hockey stop stylee that doesn't involve snow inhalation?
Mosha Marc, doesn't sound like you were releasing enough - possibly, the slow speed release I do find more difficult as you can't throw your hip down the fall line as agriculturally as when you're motoring along. I think we were on the same WSA course a couple of years ago (Jan 07 maybe) before you crocked yourself on day 2 I think.
skimottaret, keep em close and retract legs, this is what I do now, at pace and using natural bumps to facilitate a compression turn. I find it difficult to do when skiing slower as I tend to just get in the backseat with no real retraction as the skis feel like they're stuck in cement.
All I'm trying to do is find a way of being able to ski this stuff (deep slush that you can push a pole down to the handle on slopes that are around blue run steepness); to ski it slower, with more control, with my skinny skis on my feet. I just feel as if I'm not totally in charge if I charge along GS turning it all the way down, things are of course a lot easier with fat skis as they don't feel like they're stuck in deep trenches.
So should I just carry on GS turning and just use my fatties or is there an answer?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| bucking bronco wrote: |
| DB, backseat, yep - I have to watch getting into the back seat, but I think the reason I get knackered is when I try to slow the pace down and get tighter turns in I can't just lean the skis over so I resort to trying to bounce and upweight on the rebound and get them around |
The heavier the snow the longer the turns. It appears that your speed is getting out of control (mach 2) and then you are trying to check this with shorter turns which don't work well in heavy snow. The only thing I can think of that could be causing your speed to get out of control is riding in the backseat. If this is the case you could try try pulling your toes up in the boot to keep you more forward / centered over your skis. Work the snow letting it build up under your skis then unweight your skis for the next long turn.
PS Skis that aren't wet waxed can become very sticky in these conditions.
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You know it makes sense.
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Try using your turn shape rather than size to control your speed - make sure you don't change direction until you almost start to head back uphill. You can therefore keep the medium / longer radius turns which are easier in the slush than short.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bucking bronco wrote: |
| Yep - you got it. |
Practice transitions on regular snow so you don't have to unweight and swivel. As in: don't have to at all.
The (Inside Leg Extension) ILE transition could really work for you here. Search sH for this term.
Imagine putting pressure on the uphill ski just before you make the new turn.
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Also coming to a quick stop in the stuff is a nightmare. |
Use the core muscles to anticipate this. Squeeze the skis ahead, stay centered, and let them come back under you.
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On steep slopes it's a lot easier - it's the flatter stuff I suffer on.
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Sure, it's so much easier to unweight and swivel when one is moving at high speed.
Long term answers:
1) practice transitions
2) given a choice between staying centered and unweighting, stay centered
3) better structure and better wax and better stance alignment could help but is really lower in returns on investment than the other stuff.
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Poster: A snowHead
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DB, I guess sometimes I do get into the backseat, thanks for the reminder of lifting my toes (Rob at WSA advocates this as well) and the other thing I use is punching my hands forward at initiation. Re Wet wax - never used it, just got whatever the shop has given me - hate that feeling of skiing in glue you sometimes get during mild days on the lower slopes.
beanie1, Yep - rounding off turns to lose speed I've used but with less speed comes less float and then I'm stuck in the heavy slush struggling to initiate.
I guess my problems boil down to being able to initiate the turn at the slower speeds, so...
comprex, I'll try this ILE - I sort of use this on the piste, except I don't consciously put my downhill hip forward so will have to practice that. It's fairly easy to do on the piste (again speed helps) and my shifting of weight downhill is probably too rushed if I'm being honest. I'll try this out off piste and work at being patient and precise with the weight shift downhill.
Please could you elaborate on the stopping quickly bit - "Use the core muscles to anticipate this. Squeeze the skis ahead, stay centered, and let them come back under you." When you say squeeze the skis ahead, I take it you mean in the direction of travel and then absorb the energy (knees) as they come back under you? Having difficulty visualising how this is going to stop you quickly.
Thanks once again for all the tips.
BB
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A canoe? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A snowboard?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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bucking bronco, to stop you can try making a almost hockey stop in one direction and then nip in a quick hockey turn in the other direction.
It, errrrrr, "usually" works 
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