 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Guys,
I'm a Rossignol fan but recently I've noticed that more and more riders are going with other brands. I love the cool designs on Rossi skis and boards and the power of the Zenith range is mighty. Can anyone else help me with trying to figure out what's going on? Would love to hear back from other Rossi fans or those who now use another brand : )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I could get good skis, cheaper, away from the brand leaders.
(Former BanditX and B2 owner)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Because there's a lot of other brands producing equally good or better (and equally sometimes worse) skis. Great thing abouyt the market there's a lot of choice. I think a lot of people have alos turned away form the 'traditional' companies in favour of brands like Line and Armada.
But anyway, since when did everyone have Rossi skis? I don't think they ever had a huge fan base to lose, they've never been recognised as the number one ski brand...
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| clarky999 wrote: |
But anyway, since when did everyone have Rossi skis? I don't think they ever had a huge fan base to lose, they've never been recognised as the number one ski brand... |
Course they have, it is just that you are too young to remember.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Really? Significantly more than any of the other big names?
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davidof, exactly, youth of today eh?
I think they've messed with it too much over the years both graphically (in fact, definitely messed too much with the image) and regards shelf-life of a particular look or product. Take over by Quicksilver and subsequent disposal probably hasn't helped either. Other brands simply show more clarity and are "known" for a particular niche. Also that orange doesn't match anything I own.
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I have had two pairs of Rossi Steeze's (now called the S6).
Best ski I have ever had, loved them.
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clarky999, they were the biggest by miles for years before Salomon came along and started to quickly erode their market share.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
davidof, exactly, youth of today eh?
I think they've messed with it too much over the years both graphically (in fact, definitely messed too much with the image) and regards shelf-life of a particular look or product. Take over by Quicksilver and subsequent disposal probably hasn't helped either. Other brands simply show more clarity and are "known" for a particular niche. Also that orange doesn't match anything I own. |
Yeah I agree with that comment. The other thing that gets me is the brand dropping some of their sponsored riders. It's as if they don't have the resources to support talented riders- which placess them straight into the hands of other brands (such as Head etc).
Saying that, I'm not too interested in sponsored riders unless I know them or have seen them ride. Anyone share this/ disagree with this?
p.s. kinda liking the SAS designs
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Bode Swiller Similar to the dominance of French wines until the New World came along with product and marketing
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| RossiBandit wrote: |
| The other thing that gets me is the brand dropping some of their sponsored riders. |
It's actually incredibly expensive to sponsor a big name sponsored skier. This is not actually to do with the equipment they're given or how much they're paid, most of them are paid feck all. More due to the travel costs of publicity & the cost specifically in the freeride market of films. Many years ago i knew one of Rossi's big name free skiers who was in most of the TGR movies of the time. For him to be in a TGR movie Rossignol had to pay in the region of $50,000 to TGR to cover heli costs, etc. they also had to cover all of his travel & promotional expenses for the year. Which would usually cover 2 trips to europe with about 80kgs of gear, 1 trip to somewhere relatively exotic e.g. japan, india, chille, NZ plus numerous trips up & down nth america , the cost of accomodation, transfers, lift passes, etc. One of my mates who was best friends with him reckoned it was upwards of 50 grand US just for this. When you add all of those in together plus equipment costs, & wages you're probably talking about somewhere between $150-200,000 per big name athlete a year. Now to put a team of said riders together to make an impact you're probably looking at 3-6 guys to have a significant slot on the film then you're looking at in & around a million per annum. That's just for your big names ignoring the hundreds of pairs of skis & bindings they give away to local hero's, etc. Basically it's a sh*t load of cash, especially for a company that's relatively struggling.
As to the quality of Rossi skis thing. In my ski career going back to about 98 they had a slight edge for all mountain skis with the original bandits but that quickly evaporated & the market diversified. Nothing they've ever made since then has had as big an impact & now they're just another big ski maker. With the exception of one or two niche models that are relatively low volume production nothing they're doing is standing out from the crowd other than possibly re-releasing the turntable bindings.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
clarky999, they were the biggest by miles for years before Salomon came along and started to quickly erode their market share.
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Well they say everyday's a schoolday! Whenabouts was this? I've been skiing for 15 years (which sounds like a lot to me but maybe not to some of you!), and have never picked up on Rossi being particularly dominant...
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Perhaps one reason - and a simple one at that - is that the two chains which dominate sales of skis in England don't stock Rossignol. So it ends up with less brand name recognition - whatever its sales might actually be. And for what it is worth, I hired a pair of Zeniths last winter in Canada and they were excellent.
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You know it makes sense.
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From Olympic success in the 60s to the 1970s Rossi ruled the world.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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clarky999, wot davidof said.
In retail, they were dominant right up until Salomon got their feet under the carpet in around '92. In the UK, for example, Rossi was distributed by Salomon until the Salomon ski came along and, thanks to the power of Salomon boots and bindings at the time, Rossi was number 1 closely followed by Dynastar (from same stable). At that time the Austrian makers were in a bit of a mess so Rossi ruled.
Now then, haven't you got some school work to be getting on with?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Head were virtually unknown
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beequin, what you mean the company that invented modern ski construction (ie not a piece of tree with no edges)? 1960s all the rage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Had a pair of their 4M mogul skis 20 years back. Also got some WC 9sti race dep skis from Rob@rar that I still haven't tried yet
Yes - it was the monocoque/cap ski construction that came next - about when clarky999 started - and then carving then freeride then phat etc etc.
The current graphics on their non-race skis really suck - if their website is to be believed.,
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I'm a Rossi fan and was very pleased to see him win the world champs again this year. 
I do have a pair of Rossignol skis too, bought recently from sarah and very snazzy they are too!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Now then, haven't you got some school work to be getting on with?
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Nope, no more lectures today, and as the rivers are dry and I can't get to Cairngorm, I have nothing else to do apart form waste time on the interweb...
Thanks for the lsson though, 'twas before my time.
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Monocoque was crap, just a way of knocking out skis cheapo and en-mass. Salomon ingeniously used it as a marketing opportunity, pulling in the punters to cheaper skis. Other manufacturers were caught cold and had to change their manufacturing plants to produce cap skis, delaying the onset of carving skis for a good couple of years. Good take on it here: http://www.skiinghistory.org/sidecut.html
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| Quote: |
Quote:
Head were virtually unknown
beequin, what you mean the company that invented modern ski construction (ie not a piece of tree with no edges)? 1960s all the rage.
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As far as the High Street shops in the UK in the early 80s were concerned, perhaps. I seem to remember all the skis were Blizzard or Rossignol, or I agree Dynastar.
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Sideshow_Bob, Interesting article,
“Shapes are a fad,” snorted a senior executive for one French skimaker.
made me laugh, nuff said
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
But anyway, since when did everyone have Rossi skis? I don't think they ever had a huge fan base to lose, they've never been recognised as the number one ski brand... |
Course they have, it is just that you are too young to remember. |
In Frenchie land maybe among the gauloise puffing, shrugging masses but I suspect the meat reared farmboys of Austria probably would still hanker for Atomic.
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As to the original question - brands in a crowded marketplace ebb & flow. Maybe 6-8 years ago they were famous for the Bandit series, and sticking their stuff on Hugo Harrison's feet & 9X/S. Their snowboard brand despite sponsorship of Jeremy Jones always seemed to be a bit of a mess as did the boots.
Suspect now that Dynastar really has their "freeride" market though the S7 seems to have its fans and only slightly makes them look about 2 years behind leading the market.
Bindings always have had a good rep - although question whether that's Rossi or Look really?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
"Perhaps one reason - and a simple one at that - is that the two chains which dominate sales of skis in England don't stock Rossignol. So it ends up with less brand name recognition - whatever its sales might actually be. And for what it is worth, I hired a pair of Zeniths last winter in Canada and they were excellent. "
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-Yeah totally agree with what was said there, still a big fan of the Zenith range.
However my mate works with Snow + Rock and when I asked him about the best selling ski brands he mentioned that Rossignol skis in particular sell out really quickly- apparently the women's Attraxion 6 skis sold out 3 months early.
Do you think its maybe because so many people still buy the skis that there is not a strong brand prescence in the store- maybe cos they used to be so popular years ago some people are getting a bit lazy about promoting the brand instore?
has anybody seen any much Rossi promotion in the UK? Usually in magazines now there are loads of mentions with Salomon and other brands.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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How many skis a brand sells is nearly all about distribution (ie who's got the most leverage with the most retailers). There are many great skis out there but they sell SFA because they can't get "in" with the big buyers. Mr Intersport, Mr Sport2000, Mr Big Buying Group are thinking about margin and back up - they don't really care what ski won what test or what performer wears them but brand does count. They know that the majority of their customers haven't got a clue and buy what they are sold (unlike most of the discerning folks on this forum). Big boys like Rossignol have brand and capacity to churn out 000s of high margin skis in places like Tunisia and Spain and can chuck boots and bindings into the equation. Luckily these days most skis are good, there are very few dogs out there.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
But anyway, since when did everyone have Rossi skis? I don't think they ever had a huge fan base to lose, they've never been recognised as the number one ski brand... |
Course they have, it is just that you are too young to remember. |
In Frenchie land maybe among the gauloise puffing, shrugging masses but I suspect the meat reared farmboys of Austria probably would still hanker for Atomic. |
Leading ski manufacturer in the 1960s and 1970s, first ski to sell more than a million examples (Stratos). First multi layer laminated wood ski (the '41) which some skiers still use in the States for nordique and telemark. Stratos, the first successful laminated fibreglass ski, raced to Olympic gold by a number of skiers. Early 80s with the VAS system. Really the company was top dog from the mid 1960s to early 1980s but then every dog has its day.
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof, I bow as ever to your vastly greater local knowledge. Were there not national preferences even back then - surely the Austrians would rather buy Atomic, Germans Volkl no matter what Killy et al did?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Simples wrote: |
| Perhaps one reason - and a simple one at that - is that the two chains which dominate sales of skis in England don't stock Rossignol. So it ends up with less brand name recognition - whatever its sales might actually be. And for what it is worth, I hired a pair of Zeniths last winter in Canada and they were excellent. |
Seems highly unlikely to me. At a guess i'd say retail sales of skis in the UK account for a tiny percentage of retail skis in europe, let alone worldwide, at a guess i'd say it has to be under 5%. Of which i'm guessing S&R & EB probably account for significantly under half of. So to say that 2 retailers in a country where there are to all intents & purposes no real skiing, scotland & snowdomes are purely niche, could even remotely sway the dominance or lack there of of one brand is farcical.
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Poster: A snowHead
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frank4short, UK is indeed insignificant - I'm told 2-3% of the European market. Some of the big buying groups will buy more skis from one manufacturer than the entire UK market. That said, the racks in UK stores broadly represent the rest of the world IMV.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| fatbob wrote: |
| davidof, I bow as ever to your vastly greater local knowledge. Were there not national preferences even back then - surely the Austrians would rather buy Atomic, Germans Volkl no matter what Killy et al did? |
I'm sure you are right, the world was much less globalized and I'm always interested in what you have to say.
Rossi did well in the United States and there is no doubt that Boix-Vives built the brand into a global powerhouse before loosing it all (or nearly everything). Head were certainly innovative but didn't have the same sales power as Rossi at the time.
I think the posts above are about right. There is lots more competition now. Rossi skis are good but maybe lack character and are expensive. If you are going to pay 600 euros, why not consider a Black Crows or Movement or some other boutique skis.
Boix-Vives had the right strategy for the 1960s and 70s. Market via racers/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i've come back to rossignol from a short stint away.
a pair of bandit b1's were my first pair and i didn't truly appreciate them until i replaced them with a pair of salomon aeros. The bandits seemed to have more "soul" and i enjoyed them much more... managed to get a great pair of rossignol b2's to replace my aeros, can't wait to get on them and relive the bandit experience, I also have found that out of 4 pairs of boots, rossi's seem to fit better? probably just my foot though.
Most of the items in my ski hardware are rossignol this season, including a pair of carbon bandit boots  which I am over the moon with.
Heres a true rossi fan.
Cheers
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Heres a true rossi fan.
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Good to know that there are others out there who are still a fan of Rossi.
Had a look at their SAS collection- what do people think about the designs on these particular skis? I'm loving the s4 park design.
p.s. Rissi rider Noel Baxter seems to be doing all right this season.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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clarky999, don't you remember the old black 4S and the blue and then yellow 7S. After that came the 9S and 9X and the 9.9 - early carving model. Then the all mountain Bandit, followed by the Bandit X, XX and XXX. Rossignol used to be pioneers.
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I'm probably not old enough to remember - I'm only 20, skiing for the last 15 years but have probably only really aware of the differences in skis in the last 5-10 years or so. Having skied almost exclusively in Austria (with a couple of trips to Italy) I guess I wouldn't really have been exposed to the French brands so much either.
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bobinch, the Cut 9.9 wasn't impressive.
What was impressive was the Axiom, the Cut 11.5 (predecessor to the XXX) and the T-Power Vipers.
What was -really- impressive was the Rossi Free Venture AT snowblades.
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comprex, I remember the Vipers - one of the first new shape skis I really tried. Showed the xscreams for the woossy planks they were.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bobinch, IIRC it was the 4S in teal blue. The first 7S was black and then later models were in yellow. We just chucked out a black pair and a couple of yellow pairs from the attic a couple of months ago. I saw a guy in LDA ripping it up on a yellow pair with Nordica GP90s, Briko Zen glasses and an SOS sweater a couple of years ago. It was like he'd fallen into the glacier in 1993 and only just thawed out 
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Tried some Rossi B3s for a few days last season and didn't like them. At 5'11" and 11st I found them heavy and unresponsive, it felt like they wanted to ski me rather than the other way around. They were quite good in a straight line but that was about it and they may suit some people but no thanks, not for me.
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