 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I just bought myself a pair of ProLine Hinged Knee supports to try and prevent any knee injury returning to skiing after a very long break.
In the box I noticed a little horseshoe shaped piece of foam called a "Horseshoe Butress Pad".
The instructions show its use as the following:-
Inferior patella support - Place pad below knee cap so it cups the underside of the knee.
Superior patella support - Place pad above knee cap so it cup the upper area of the knee.
Lateral patella support - Place pad so it is rocated 90 degress to the knee cap with the lower part of the radius to the OUTSIDE of the knee.
Medial patella support - Place pad so it is rocated 90 degress to the knee cap with the lower part of the radius to the INSIDE of the knee.
If anyone knows how this pad should be used for a skier would be grateful for any advice.
The above list has me a bit confused 
Thanks,
RR
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rockyrobin, I am a GP with a fair amount of experience in orthopaedics. In general I would say that hinged knee braces are no use as protection against injury, and may even be harmful. The best way to protect against injury to the knees are to lose weight, and to do strengthening exercises for the supporting muscles. Sorry that I can't give you any more helpful advice.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the info Kramer 
Do you know of any internet sites that have any info on these support aids and their useage?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not off the top of my head, have you tried the manufacturers website?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hehe, thanks for pointing out the obvious. Now I feel stupid 
Would I be better off to avoid skiing till I have got the strength of my leg muscles to a point where I will reduce my chance of injury?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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In an ideal world noone would ski without proper fitness preparation before hand. However most people (myself included ) don't live in an ideal world. If you are still recovering from a knee injury or operation, then you are better holding off from skiing until you have completed your rehabilitation. If it's just a case of returning to skiing after a long break then your best bet is to take it easy, and maybe have your binding tension set a little lower than you have in the past, however the only person who can make the decision to ski or not is yourself. Most skiing injuries to knees are torsional, and I've yet to see a knee brace that stops torsional injuries.
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rockyrobin, Kramer's argument is an echo of that which I heard at the International Symposium on Safety in Skiing many moons ago: strengthened knee muscles are the essential protection. But you could also take second opinions on the usefulness of knee braces from an orthopaedic consultant - maybe a knee specialist (quite a few hospitals have knee units now).
If you feel up to trying it, a monoski is unlikely to put any torsional strain on your knees because they work together and can't twist in relation to each other. Likewise, a snowboard is relatively knee-friendly.
Snowblades (because of the very short length and insignificant leverage) will also reduce stress to the knees significantly. Use the ones with release bindings. There's a very low chance that the bindings will ever have to release, but there's that outside chance of jamming the blade in a rut when you might well need the release.
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David Goldsmith, you need to talk to a knee specialist who also knows about skiing, many don't. You're also better off talking to a specialist in sports medicine rather than an orthopaedic surgeon. Orthopaedic surgeons specialise in repairing injuries, sports physicians in preventing them.
There are many problems with knee braces-
They don't accurately replicate all the planes of movement in a normal knee.
Unless they are custom made they are unlikely to accurately replicate your own knee range of movements in the plane that they do allow movement in.
Inevitably bracing a joint causes weakening of the muscles and ligaments around the joint as they are not put under so much low grade stress.
Braces very rarely stay in the correct position, especially during accidents.
And as stated earlier, I've yet to see a knee brace that can control torsional movement of the lower leg.
For all these reasons, knee braces can actually cause stress risers and possibly increase the risk of injury, however as you say there is no substitute for seeking a face to face expert opinion.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I always found cycling a good prep for skiing, it seems to help build knee strength ankle flexibility and of course gets many of the same muscle groups working that skiing effects, mind you for the first time in many years I really felt unfit this year, and what hav'nt I been doing lately..... cycling 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rockyrobin, I don't know of any statistics. As long as you take it easy and don't do anything stupid then you should be ok. Running the risk of a knee injury is just one of the risks that you accept when you go skiing.
Mountain biking (or walking uphill pushing a mountain bike) is pretty good exercise to get in shape for skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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just my two cents...if anyone cares....im 29 and have had 3 anterior cruciate reconstruction surgerys...my surgeon who knows me pretty well by now  ..just tell mes to keep on the bike....keep the quads and hamstrings strong....no kneebrace required because it makes you rely on it. like I said just my 2cents..im not over weight, and work out regulary, just bad luck I guess.
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You know it makes sense.
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knibbyson, Your past history sounds like I want to avoid - another vote for the pushiron
I'm curious - Did your specialist recommend that it is important to keep the legs as warm as possible so as to ensure no restriction of blood supply to the legs?
I was told last night by a nurse friend of mine that this is important to help keep everything in its place when in extreme cold. He's not in orthopaedics so was wondering if this is indeed true?
I have noticed that a lot of people seem to neglect to insulate their legs to the same extent as the torso. I can only presume where the blood wants to be to conserve warmth for the core temperature.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think it depends on the injury and how good a state your knees are in but take hope in the fact that knibbyson, has had 3 ACL' repairs....!!!
As a matter of course you should train up the knees and cycling is a good way to develop them rather than running with all that jarring etc. If it was a bad injury I would say that now maybe a bit late to start working on the knees.
Generally, braces shouldn't be doing the job of knees and as Kramer says nothing replicates it anyway.
See a knee specialist about a training regime.
knibbyson,
I'm curious, does your surgeon encourage you to ski or resigned to you doing it anyway and just tries to advise accordingly?
I'm impressed that you ski after 3 ops as nothing kills knees like sking IMO...!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rockyrobin, have you had knee trouble in the past, or are you just being cautious?
JT, I have to say that I found hill-walking (principally the downhill part) plays complete havoc with my knees - they completely sieze up after about half a day walking downhill - but I can ski all day wil no troubles. Having had to give up any serious hill-walking because of the problem, I'm now so happy to have discovered ski-touring - walk up, ski down... no problem  . I have cycled (currently up to about 10 miles a day) as my main means of transport most of my life though - and just recently started running/jogging (about 2-3 miles a day) to improve my overall fitness.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN, Both - I've had a few occasions where i've been tired and ended up straining something in my legs that has left me sore for anything upto a week or two. I know I should really get my muscles built up in my legs before venturing onto my planks but i'm impatient and want to go now
I wasn't planning on throwing myself down any black runs just taking it gently on the reds and blues and wanted a temporary short cut in supporting my muscles and knees when tired for the next couple of trips till I get fit enough to not need any aids.
Seems though this may not be such a good idea.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rockyrobin, Eric Prydz released an excellent instructional video last year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rockyrobin,
I think people are just trying to say take care and not trying to scare you off. Good luck with whatever you do.
GrahamN,
I can imagine walking down hill is a problem if you have bad knees. My friends knees are shot and he can relate to that.
I advocate cycling over running because it has less of a jarring thing on the knees and the fact that some people would need to get fit enough even to run.
I base my opinions on the fact that when I started playing a good standard of football after a lay-off my physio said my legs were in poor shape for what I was asking them to do. This was a shock as I have always had good muscle definition in my legs but I took his advice and his regimes and it cured my knee pain, which was basically the ligaments complaining they were doing the job the muscles should be doing. I now do these same exercises for every time I go skiing and always think of that physio's advise.
But the fact is most people could always be fitter. I made a big effort and it paid off on my last trip. More so than lessons IMO which was the subject of another thread.
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rockyrobin, thanks for the link. I'm looking for that club too, if you find it, you will let me know?
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Kramer, Hehe, wondered how long it would be till someone bit and owned up to watching and enjoying it 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JT, I agree with you completely (except that in my case walking is certainly worse for the knees than skiing). Last year was the first in which I noticed my fitness (or lack of it) holding back my skiing - losing pretty much all control/technique on big off-piste days, not just once but twice. This was after not having cycled for about 4 years. So this year I started cycling to/from work every day (about 4.5 miles each way) back in September. So this new year things felt much better - still got a bit of thigh burn, but nothing too serious. Fitness was still a bit off though, so I started running part of the way back from work from early January. I agree with you about needing to get fit enough to run. I have never been a runner of any nature whatsoever (even 400m at school was verging on a long-distance effort), but I started running while pushing the bike until puffed, then getting back on the bike until recovered enough to have another go. First day or two was a bit rough - only managed about 3 bursts of 1/4 mile each - but it soon built up, so after only two weeks I managed to run the whole 4.5 miles (bu$$ered at the end of it though). So it doesn't have to take a tremendous effort or a huge training programme.
rockyrobin, if your not going to be punishing yourself on the mega-moguls or breaking any downhill records you should be fine. If you do fancy some preparation, try a bit of cycling. The important thing is to do at least something every day (or at least 5 times a week) - even if it's only 10 mins, and if you can fit one small hill in that so much the better, but just enough to get you puffing. Make sure you push down straight on the pedals though, not the old-man-bandy-legged style which puts quite a strain on the knees. One big effort for each of the next two or three Sundays from cold may do more harm than good. When you're skiing, just listen to your legs, and when those cools turns you can do in your sleep (or daydreams) start not quite coming off, stop, have a chocolat chaud and a rest, and then have another go when you're refreshed. And don't do that "one last run" when all the problems happen.
....and when can my membership start?
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rockyrobin, it's downloaded and on my hard drive now.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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GrahamN,
Yes, the first week is the worst and then you actually look forward to it. But nothing is for nothing so its best just to get on with it. And it really did help me skiing this year. We have these little contests and I had dropped behind a bit because my buddies can get out to ski so much more than me these days and I certainly did not disgrace myself in the deep stuff arounmd the 18th Jan onwards. And that was all done to the regime I devised and the inspiration I got from these pages.
So everyone, put the work in, you will not be sorry.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It's ok full screen on my 12" powerbook.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rockyrobin, if you have sattelite then it's pretty much on one of the music channels all of the time, especially late at night. For some reason, it is apparently a very popular video request.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Re knee braces - would agree with everything Kramer has said. I ski without either of my medial collateral ligaments - have snapped them both skiing! Luckily I did one of these while working as a (junior) orthopaedic surgeon! Got advice from one of my bosses who specialises in sports injuries and his advice was to avoid knee braces as they give you a false sense of security and dont stop any further injury - unless you have patella instability when a custom made one may be of some help. His advice was to carry on skiing once I'd got over the acute injury - but he was also a mad keen skier so would never ban anyone from skiing....
I still manage to ski happily - with just a bit of pain if I do too many bumps. I was recommended a step machine- about £25 from eg argos - it seems to keep my quads strong enough to ski without too many aches and you can use it while watching TV/drinking a glass of red wine...good if you're as totally bored by exercise as I am
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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k, do I know you? Was it Mr Forster who gave you the advice?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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kramer - did orthopedics at the royal orthopedic in birmingham not nottingham so was one of the surgeons there who gave advice. Have only been at QMC for a year but no longer doing ortho - am one of those strange glorified dentists doing maxfax...but mr Forster's name in in my address book ready for the next injury...
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In that case I don't know you k. I did orthopaedics at QMC (amongst other places) about six years ago.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just to answer a couple of questions. While skiing I wear a "compression" sock to keep the leg warm. Im not sure if that is the correct term or not But it keeps the knee warm for sure. My doctor isnt thrilled by my decision to keep skiing, but he is a skier himself, so he understands the addiction. I need a knee replacement, but Canadian Health care will not allow replacements unless absolutely critical to those under 55. So I wait, for my new knee, and ski in the meantime. My knee swells at the end of the day, I ice it, and away we go the next day.
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And now for a vote in favour of hinged knee braces.
Due to various knee injuries and ops, one of my knees only bends about 130 degrees. The result should i have an awkward fall and the knee tries to bend beyond this point could be VERY serious / explosive!. My brace has an adjuster that prevents the knee (or triesto) from bending beyond 90 degrees. This has now got me trough 10 seasons without a knee mishap. Another must is a gentle setting on good quality bindings, and strong quads and hams. Oh yes, no jumps, and take it easy and avoid poor visibility if you can. Dont be afraid to knock off early if the knee becomes "tired".
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FAQ
so I don't reckon there's much chance of me overdoing it 
However,to enable continuing studies, I have saved it to my PC and will review it at regular intervals 
