 Poster: A snowHead
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All I ever hear about is bad news when it comes to skiing...
The glaciers will be gone in 75 years.
Increased risk of avalanches
Increased risk of Mountain Tsunamis (obviously more sinister than mountain flood due to recent events)
Increased piste rage
The list goes on.
I am looking for some good news.
I want to know that skiing will still be available in 50 years in the Alps (hopefully I'll still be able to ski when I'm 75)
I want to know that when I go skiing in a few weeks the chances of me being knocked down by an out of control skier, boarder are remote.
I want to know that I am not likely to be swept away by a tsunami half way down a piste in St. Anton. (Should I be wearing a transceiver or a life jacket).
Please all of you who have recently been skiing, give me some good news.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's snowing heavily right now, I've been skiing, I'll be out tomorrow, that's about as good it gets really.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Gravity isn't threatened
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The chance of getting snow this weekend in Scotland is "good".
There should be further snowhead meetings in the snowdomes for the coming summer.
People older than 75 have been seen skiing in the Alpes.
It is Friday today!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Chairlift rides are going to get much bigger and much more exciting, with far more seats:
this one is being prototyped with people who may never see snow, and may never use skis, but they are our guinea pigs.
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David Goldsmith, Safety bar seems to reflect todays nanny state
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Certainly it's difficult to see any good news for snowHeads. We've been warned to expect receding chins from the year 2020
Evo & Pritt
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith, I hope they don't slow down the new chairlifts too much, as they are it would take only seconds to get up the mountain. Say goodbye to lift ques.
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Ok, here goes.
Global warming, whilst widely accepted as a plausible theory, has little unimpeachable evidence to back it up so far. It is taken seriously as part of the "Precautionary Principle", which means that because it's effects are likely to be so far reaching, we should assume that it's true until it is proven one way or another, which is generally thought of as a reasonable philosophy. There is evidence that the glaciers are receding, but there is also evidence that this has happened in the past, and we don't really know exactly why it is happening. Remember that we have only comparatively recently began to take accurate measurements of these things. Climatolology is at best an inexact science, so any predictions should be taken with a pinch of salt. It might not happen.
When it comes to avalanches these are fairly easily avoided by some common sense precautions, the risk of getting caught in one and dying as an absolute risk is relatively small, and generally avalanche risk 4 or 5 off piste, equates to great skiing on-piste. For mountain tsunamis, learn to surf dude!
Hope this helps you think happy thoughts.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kramer,
"learn to surf dude! "
That is really news for me. There is a limit the ski manufacturers are prepared to fatten the two planks!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, perhaps a trip to the dark side will be needed?
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Kramer,
Tried it but the knees wouldn't have it. I can only afford to have one knee working while the other one taking a rest. I shall wait for the invention of the one-leg snowboard.
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You know it makes sense.
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I saw a one legged skier caning it down the national black run in Zermatt last week.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tea Leaf, a comment like that could you leave you in hot water ... milk and two sugars anyone??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tea Leaf, when you nick these teas don't you find it really inconsiderate of the owners that they're not in tea bags?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sorry everyone, but i cant hold back any longer!
Kramer, good summary of the precautionary principle....but i must emphasise that it should not be used for people as an excuse for inaction or simply to ignore the problem.
Although no scale of evidence is unimpeachible (lets face it on a day to day basis i would probably readily accept the Earth is flat without evidence showing me otherwise), there is a significant amount of evidence showing trends of man-made global warming (im sorry, but when people try to get off the hook by saying its a PURELY natural phenomenon really do my head in, thats simple denial)...
(coincidence alert...honest!)...in the paper today the long awaited results of a UK/US study into ocean warming have thrown up 'astonishing' correlation between 'ocean warming' and levels of greenhouse gas emissions. I wont go into it, but the headline (Independent) reads 'The final proof: global warming IS a man-made disaster' (yes i know its the papers opinion...but its not complete twaddle!)
This is one of a number (large number) of studies showing similar relationships. And apprently even the White House has been unable to write it off outright yet  ...times of change...god i hope so!
Either way, worrying about whether we will/will not be able to go skiing in 50 years may be the least of our worries (or, of course it may not), but one thing that is for sure...if we take into account the energy crisis, landfills, unsustainable consumption, over population, pollution, poverty, deforestation, desertification and god knows how many things related to our excesses we enjoy today (and if we dont change things pronto the trend may spiral), our children (or maybe our childrens children) may be living in a very different world than we do today...and possibly not in a wholly good way.
That said, if we can learn to accept that there is a problem (or even entertain the fact that there might be a problem) as opposed to assuming that it will all sort itself out eventually without us changing our lives at all....then maybe its not to late to ensure that future generations can be guaranteed at least the same quality of life we enjoy today.
The problem is that this will require more than just recycling, or swapping our lightbulbs or not using the car so much (all good things i might add tho  ), but a complete re-defnition of how we live our lives, different - not necessarily worse. This of course is the problem ('societal inertia' i believe is the term!), and if we cant do it ourselves then we may end up being told what to do, and the longer we leave it maybe the worse the consequences.
A small change now by everyone will work, but if people keep trying to deny the science (and listen to the politicians, CEO's and over-consuming celebrities) then one day it may be too late to take the precautiony approach...
Sorry, that turned into a babbling rant, but it is something i feel very strongly about.  (and through a little enlightenment due to my MA subject). Maybe its cos im 25 and a little worried about the mess that my generation may be left with clearing up.
rant over. (and trust me, i dont want to be correct...but at least im not trying to ignore the problem...but i freely admit i too have a long way to go before i can be deemed to be living a sustainable lifestyle..but im working on it! )
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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tomski01,
I see all these bad news no more than a natural progression. History is littered with examples of having war periodically so that all these problems may be temporarily reduced.
Many countries are still struggling to have running water, electricity, cars and many modern mod cons that we want to distant ourselves with or get rid of. If people are happy to do away with heating their homes, eat what they grow, don't have more than 2 children (better still none), throw away anything that pollutes and disperse into country side then would this may be the definition of a happy and sustanable world?
Many people in India and China never own a car. You think they will not want one when now they are in the position to afford it? In the 20 century can we convince the Catholic or Muslim that birth control can help to lessen out population problem? People in the Middle east has nothing but oil and therefore energy. Can we persuade them to take the 50 degree C heat and switch off the air con?
If there is such thing as conservation of energy then all the fuel we burnt, all the heat we generated and all the pollution we produced since civilisation must still be within the world we live in now and so facing up the consequence should not be a depressing thought.
One should therefore feel happy as long as one has done one's reasonable part not to make the situation worse. If a snowhead is green enough he or she should not ski at all!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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tomski01, wow, you obviously know far more about global warming than I do.
In my post above I was to a certain extent taking the devil's advocate position, to try and give a good news spin for albeemish. After all we still have to enjoy life. Sorry for the trolling!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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saikee,
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| I see all these bad news no more than a natural progression. History is littered with examples of having war periodically so that all these problems may be temporarily reduced. |
Sorry, im not sure what you are getting at here...but this problem is likely to be more wide reaching than any of humanities wars, you can look at this news as 'bad news' or you can look at it as a warning which we should heed and use to move forward!
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| Many countries are still struggling to have running water, electricity, cars and many modern mod cons that we want to distant ourselves with or get rid of. If people are happy to do away with heating their homes, eat what they grow, don't have more than 2 children (better still none), throw away anything that pollutes and disperse into country side then would this may be the definition of a happy and sustanable world? |
Nope, but they may all be options for lifestyle changes. Of course the concept of sustainable development is not simply environmental, it is also social (and economic)...the so called 'Three Pillars of Sustainability'. Solving water availability problems, poverty, electricity etc is as vital as any environmental issue, the hope is that these countries may be able to develop in a way that is more sustainable, learning from the developed worlds mistakes. (this is especially important for China, as the way they choose to develop from this point forward may prove decisive). Development is an LDC's main priority, and this is why developed countries must support them...but not through second hand technology! Pollution is not the only problem, neither is global warming.
We in the west consume matter and energy in a very linear fashion (inputs - goods - waste), whereas all of the earths natural systems operate in a cyclical fashion, as such, the way forward is to consume and produce goods in a cyclical fashion, where the waste is still useful as an input for something else. (Biomimicry)
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| Many people in India and China never own a car. You think they will not want one when now they are in the position to afford it? In the 20 century can we convince the Catholic or Muslim that birth control can help to lessen out population problem? People in the Middle east has nothing but oil and therefore energy. Can we persuade them to take the 50 degree C heat and switch off the air con? |
Well, these countries may become the new technology users of the future...so long as we dont shove all our ultra polluting unwanted machinery upon them. Maybe they wont want to use cars anyway, life can be as rich without these things. Population problem - well i read a statistic once that in order to support the current level of population (and consumption habits) for a sustained period, we will need 4 earths worth of resources. Of course the population is not getting any smaller and im not sure of the solution), but all the more reason to alter our lifestyles (no one said it would be easy - any many optimists say that this is the one thing that could unite the global population - lets hope it happens in time). Air conditioning - well there are other ways of keeping cool in the desert.
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| If there is such thing as conservation of energy then all the fuel we burnt, all the heat we generated and all the pollution we produced since civilisation must still be within the world we live in now and so facing up the consequence should not be a depressing thought. |
The problem is that the energy was previously locked up in the matter of the earth, over millions of years of moulding and tectonic action/sedimentation etc...now we are releasing this energy in various ways (taking it from deep underground and releasing it into the atmosphere if you will), and the biosphere only has so much capacity for this (how much who knows), but one thing we know is that, like any system its capacity is limited.
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| One should therefore feel happy as long as one has done one's reasonable part not to make the situation worse. |
Really, surely one would be happier if they felt they were making the situation better?
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| If a snowhead is green enough he or she should not ski at all! |
True, and i feel like a real hypocrite sometimes...taking my easyjet flight to go skiing...touche!
Kramer, Im no expert, but im learning, i dont think living in a sustainable way is neccessarily un-enjoyable! I think we need to be positive about these things, there is great opportunity for society to really change its ways and move forwards...that excites me, i dont know about you?!
PS Im not having a go or nowt, and im not a hippy either! 
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Having seen a couple of Iranian resorts I doubt if your concern would be shared by a country where one can ski 9 months in a year including June. When the global warming takes over leaving little snow in the Alps the Iranian skiers can still enjoy the white stuff at 4950m above sea level, without any expansion. Their petrol is also between 5 to 6 pence per litre. Their current goal is to have more convenience and facilities in life and that include pretty much all the things the Green population in the West wants to distant from.
Unless you have been to a desert and taste the 50 degree C heat the comment of "well there are other ways of keeping cool in the desert" is academic only. Nowadays in the region many people simply cannot sleep if there is a power cut!
Skiers able to pay over 30 Euros to ski a day in an Alpine resort should be contented. The Iranians may be paying only 5 Euro for a skiing pass but the earning and exchange rate are against them to be able to come out to sample the European resorts.
Skiers in UK should also be happy as we haven't got the natural resources to support the downhill skiing population but France/ Austria/Italy/Switzerland are so close to us that we can go there any time to enjoy a sport still regarded as an expensive hobby by the majority of the world.
Can this be qualified as good news?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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i recognise this is a ski forum so i accept your skiing stance!
I agree totally with your sentiments really, although i think there are far more serious problems going on globally than the Iranian skiiers that cant afford to come to Europe to go skiing. I concede i know little about A/C, but i was only using that phrase as a crappy analogy really (poorly thought out).
The ideal situation must be somewhere between what westerners have and what the rest of the world has, bringing everyone up to levels and styles of consumption we have will spell big problems....how we achieve that i dont claim to know the answer!
Im gonna shut up now cos my argument has clearly got lost im my blabbering and im starting to look a little foolish.
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tomski01,
It is a good news if you no longer feel depressed!
I know very little about things myself and learn a lot in here. I throw in a few points merely to show a lot of things are out of our hand and there is no point in feeling uptight about it. There is nothing foolish in a discussion. Only by knowing each other's view that we can gain a better understanding of our difference and find a common way to narrow it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can't understand this man-made thing about global warming. In school we studied conservation of energy which tells us energy cannot be destroyed. It just changes from one form to another. We dug up so much fuel from the ground and burn it so it must be somewhere in this planet. Even if we light a match it will contribute to global warming. The heat and energy are needed for the human to survive. We can't live with out them and why should we criticise for cooking up the planet slowly. The only way to stop it is to kill people. We are doing our share by going to a skiing slope to allow avalanche to take its natural course. Does this constitute inciting a suicide pact throught the Internet?
If we have energy now we worry about the global warming. If do not have energy now we would worry about how could our future generations to survive. Either way we can't win so let us forget about it go back to skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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well, you lot sure put me in my place, ill just shut up and spout my opinions elsewhere i guess, sorry i was 'preaching' to you all about not going skiing (i dont remember specifically doing that) 
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 21-02-05 12:57; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| saikee wrote: |
| I can't understand this man-made thing about global warming. In school we studied conservation of energy which tells us energy cannot be destroyed. It just changes from one form to another. We dug up so much fuel from the ground and burn it so it must be somewhere in this planet. |
They told you the planet was a closed system? You might be able to sue
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Poster: A snowHead
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ise,
If the planet isn't a closed system we wouldn't have the global warming problem in the first place, would we? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee, don't we receive energy from / dissipate energy into space?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PG,
I am not a scientist but if the energy is released into the atmosphere and can't escape then the earth will be cooked slowly with time. If the heat and energy have escaped then there is no need to worry. If the escape route cause a degradation of the atmospheric layer then the consequence is no different to the first case. For all we know the degradation of the atmospheric layer can just be a transformed energy-intensive space held in equilibrium.
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FAQ
) in the near future, paleogeology would indicate that we could still ski in the Alps at altitude 
