 Poster: A snowHead
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How much difference do stiffer/softer ski boots make ? I have been persauded that I need to upgrade from my 25 year old Koflachs, as even they are superbly comfortable, they are likely to disintegrate one day. I will be looking to get new boots in Perth (at Banks or at Craigdon), and I appreciate that boot fit may be more important than the stiffness. However, as a fairly aggressive, but ageing, advanced skiier, should I be looking for a soft flex to accommodate my old age and declining fitness, or do I look for a stiff pair to go with my reasonably stiff Rossy Radical X GS skis? Will I notice any difference with different flex boots? Advice welcomed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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deerman, lordy.
IMHO...it's partially down to taste. I prefer a stiff, precise boot and I believe I ski better with one. (Well, two actually).
Your Rossis aren't full on race skis and don't demand a super stiff boot, but if you're really using them to the extent that they can be used, I'd have thought you'd like a 110 (at the very softest, probably too soft) to 130 "grade" boot. I'd probably go 130, unless they feel way too stiff in the shop.
But, who knows without seeing you ski.
Whatever happens, a proper;y fitting new boot should be a MASSIVE improvement on your Koflachs. And they'll probably smell nicer too.
(You aren't Colin Beck trolling are you? He used to ski in Koflachs...)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name, Actually I think they are "full on race skis," or as much as any ski available from a retailer in the UK is a race ski. They are FIS approved, and ski very nicely in all conditions, including powder - much to the surprise of some. So why will a new boot be a massive improvement ? The koflachs have been in a cupboard in a boot bag for 20 years, they are still solid (and don't smell particularly - my wife would soon tell me if they did!). Were it not for the possibility of shattering, I would happily keep using them, but too many people have told me horror stories. I had assumed that I would be looking for something about the 100 mark, accepting that different manufacturers have different scales, but what is the difference, for the same manufacturer, of using say a 90 flex as against a 110 as against a 130 ?
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You need to match the boot stiffness with your strength/weight, skis, terrain and level of aggression. The stiffer your skis, the more hard snow biased your skiing, the heavier and more aggressive you are the stiffer your boots. Boots have come a long way in 25 years and the plastic will be totally shot. With soft boots you won't be able to get the full performance out of stiffer skis as you can't pressure the tip of a stiff ski adequately so for your FIS legal GS skis you would want a fairly stiff boot.
I ski 110 flex atomics but I use them for everything and am only 68kg and the flex is just right. It is also worth noting that the flex index is not standardised over different manufacturers (or even within the same manufacturers range sometimes) and remember that you can more easily make a stiff boot softer but not a softer boot stiffer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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deerman, go to graigdon and ask to speak to Lorna, she will help you out
under a new name, Colin Beck is a good mate of mine, he is now out of the ski industry he has been for a few years he sells taxis now 
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Im sure ive got a Warren Smith DVD that says that the recreational skier generaly uses a boot that is far to stiff and should have
a boot that allows more ancle flex.
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Renry, I'm sure you do.
CEM, does he indeed? it's been a few years since I last saw him. I'm not convinced he'd remember my name but I hope he's well.
deerman, oh, OK, didn't sound like it but Rossignol have gone all stealth in their branding. In which case, I would think you'd definitely want stiffer - 130. I bet they ski nicely in powder, no surprise to me, so do mine (slightly older 9X WCs). I think narc is slightly incorrect and that most manufacturers numbers are broadly comparable these days but someone who knows what they're talking about should be along soon. I'm surprised CEM didn't pick me up on it.
I'm 62kgs, 5'6" and ski on boots graded "150". On a cold day, when I'm knackered, they probably are a tiny wee bit too stiff and I'm inclined to drop back to 130s when I get new ones.
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A lot depends on what you are comfortable with, most people will say (with reasonable justification) that if you are going to use a stiff ski then you should match that with a stiff boot, this is simply because a stiff boot will allow you to transfer more of your energy through to your ski, however if you have strong legs you may not need such a stiff boot, a really well fitted softer boot may actually work better because you are not in pain when skiing, racers can have incredibly tight boots because they only race for a few mins at a time, recreational skiers spend a lot more time on their skis and so should probably have something more comfortable
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| I think narc is slightly incorrect and that most manufacturers numbers are broadly comparable these days. |
Might be, but flex by itself doesn't mean anything in general. I have 2 pairs of boots. One are for skiing (Fischer World cup Pro95 130) and other are my working boots (Fischer World Cup 130). Both have 130 flex, but they are nowhere near. WC Pro is real racing boot and it general it's much much harder. WC 130 is "store racing boot" and even though it has same flex number it feels and skis completely different. Flex might be magic number to attract buyers, but in reality even so high flex doesn't do anything, if all boot "collapse" when you press it a bit harder. So picking boots solely on flex number is far for great idea. And if boots from same manufacturer with same flex number are nowhere near comparable, then I doubt these things could be comparable between manufacturers.
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the problem with your Koflachs if they are 20 years old, is that the geomtry is designed for ski's and technique that are 20 years old - the sole height, cuff angle, natural ramp angle of the boot are all probably designed for a parallel ski.
find a really good boot fitter, one who's probably an instructor as well, first job he'll do is to fit the boot to you, my g friend was fitted into a 130 dobe cause it was the only boot to fit her really well, the fitter then softened it slightly to what she required - approx a 100 ish flex as she pretty light. then get you and your boot fitted to the skis.
also I would have thought if you were aiming to get the performance that the ski is supposed to give, you'd want a boot with alot of feel and at the level required to ski them properly you'd be wanting a stiff boot ot enable you to transfer to the ski.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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130 to 150 flexes? why? its not needed! I ski a 100 flex boot and never struggled and I'm around 16st and a pretty aggressive skier and clipped my boots into may things. If anything a stiff boot is going to send you back seat as you can't flex it enough! I guess it really is down to personal preference and think there are many different thoughts on the matter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What dansmith says - just changed from a 130 to an 80 and it definitely helped me out of the back seat. Also the softness of the boot allowed me to go down a boot size to a much tighter fit that helps with overall control.
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Thanks everyone for the advice. I've bought myself a well fitting pair of Rossignol 100 flex - now waiting for an opportunity to try them out at Glenshee. Then we'll see how they do.
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You know it makes sense.
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dansmith, truffaut, personally, I disagree. I like a v. stiff boot (currently nominally a 150). It doesn't send me back into anything. I can flex it fine thanks. (I'm 62kgs and consider myself technical, rather than aggressive).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is there anything you can cut to make a boot more flexible? I seem to remember being told that you could cut a piece out to do this.
JP
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Poster: A snowHead
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truffaut, How does the the flex of a boot mean you can go down a size?????????
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Higher flex means thicker and higher quality shells. This means that a good bootfitter can fit your foot perfectly. A too tight, high flex, boot can be expanded, a boot with gaps will always stay too big.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Vorda, It may mean the same thickness of plastic, but different plastic, ie Head Edge, top end model, Polyether - low end model, Polypropylene. Same mould, same thickness of plastic.
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Fair enough, I'm no bootfitter. But the logic still goes: stronger plastic means you can make more adjustments, not?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| justapurrin wrote: |
Is there anything you can cut to make a boot more flexible? I seem to remember being told that you could cut a piece out to do this.
JP |
Pretty sure it depends on the boot, I know alot of people used to trim a part of the front of the salomon x waves to reduce the flex some boots have removable bolts in the back to also lessen the flex.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
"...Other plastics are used, be aware of this and it's more important than flex, given Poly-ester, Poly-ether, Poly-Propelyne and Pebax can change a huge amount given changes of temperature..."
Steve, above is your conclusion. My question : BASF " hi end " Polyether is 5 x stiffer at -15C than at +15C, how it comes with low quality plastics ie. Polyolefine or Polyprophylene ?
Reg.
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| dansmith wrote: |
| justapurrin wrote: |
Is there anything you can cut to make a boot more flexible? I seem to remember being told that you could cut a piece out to do this.
JP |
Pretty sure it depends on the boot, I know alot of people used to trim a part of the front of the salomon x waves to reduce the flex some boots have removable bolts in the back to also lessen the flex. |
Health Warning, cutting boots and removing bolts can damage your Achilles tendon. I know.
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MG, My only exp is with BASF PU Ether, our tests proved 5 x more resistance with the same boot; liner and buckle tightness, but think this is a fair average across the temp scales. However the same Polyether showed little change over the average temperatures in use, -8 to +5°.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, May I assume that low quality boots ( polyprophylen ) stiffen significantly more, when temperature drops down, than good quality boots ( PU ether ) ?
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Personally I prefer a softer flex (current boots are rated at 90) for recreational skiing and especially in powder. But I thought it was a matter of matching boot flex to your weight and natural range of ankle movement. If your boots allow more flex than your ankles can take then they are likely to be painful. And conversely if your boots are too stiff they won't allow your ankles to flex through their full natural range, which is likely to affect your balance and control during turn transitions. That's how I understand it anyway (I think it's a Warren Smith theory) and it seems to make reasonable sense.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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OK so I'm reviving a VERY old thread as opposed to starting my own, which I believe is good forum etiquette 
Anyhoo, I'm about 95kg and 5'11''. Skied about 6 weeks in total now over last 3 years, late starter at 28 when I learnt!
My boots are Atomic waymakers (wide fit) 90 flex with custom foot beds. Very comfy generally, though they do struggle to accommodate my larger than average calf muscles.
My question relates to flex, as a rather heavy chap, with big (muscly!) calves and thighs, I feel like I can almost bend the boot in half when stood still, let alone when the g-force of skiing is added. I'm thinking my boots are probably too soft? And as a consequence, the current amount of flex is getting me well out of shape and causing thigh fatigue on anything remotely steep/icy....
Thoughts anyone? (and before you say it, I am trying to shed a few pounds to assist from my side too!!)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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yes - too soft for you I think
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@chopkins13, I would say 110-120 but it varies manufacturer to manufacturer
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You know it makes sense.
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Hmmm I thought i might be right. May have to try and rent a 'stiffer' pair on my next trip to see what diffeence it makes. I presume good rental places will have a range of flex's available??
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| chopkins13 wrote: |
| Hmmm I thought i might be right. May have to try and rent a 'stiffer' pair on my next trip to see what diffeence it makes. I presume good rental places will have a range of flex's available?? |
Not necessarily.
Expansion: most shops are catering for one week a year holiday skiers and so they stock over sized soft boots.
Some places e.g. concept Pro in Chamonix are showcasing the manufacturers high end so while they might not have anything very stiff (frankly, you'll know if that's what you want and almost certainly there are very few who do) they will have a good if limited in numbers fleet of interesting things.
None of which replaces a good boot fitter of which there is a small fleet in Europe.
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