 Poster: A snowHead
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Following on from the Wipe Out thread, where a lot of people (including myself) are falling due to catching an edge, I was wondering....
Is there any tip/technique/nugget of advice to avoid catching an edge?
In my experience, it's when I'm tired or when I lose concentration that it's likely to happen. So I concentrate more when tired, which makes me more tired, and more likely to fall.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Keep the skis on an edge at all time, much easier to keep the skis under control. Don't let the skis go flat for too long otherwise they can wander and then it's much more likely to catch an edge.
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david@mediacopy, normally on a gentle blue/road/link not paying a great deal of attention, 'cos it easy stuff innit.
Skis flat(ish) 'cos it's flat, and you want to keep all your speed up. Next thing, an inside "edge has caught", and you've been spun round and you're on your backside. 
rob@rar, how do you keep on an edge when on a big schuss?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DaddyLouLou, easy, just a little bit of an edge to keep the ski from going completely flat. You can roll from edge to edge if need to. You'll lose no significant speed doing this, assuming you roll cleanly on to the edge.
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Lean back..... keeps the speed well and stops those big catchy tips from trying to turn....
Advanced version. pole tips in the toe piece of the binding, handles in armpit and relax in style while spreading your weight on the ski and makiing them run surprisingly fast 
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Only happens to me on a board on a bug of a flat bit
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DaddyLouLou, If you are catching an 'inside' edge it suggests that you are skiing in small a plough\wedge, where your ski's are effectively pointing in different directions (across each other). As the speed builds so does your ski's desire to whip off in the direction they are pointing, causing the inevitable 'stack'.
Robs suggestion of keeping your ski's on an edge means that you both ski's will be tilted on the 'same' edge, and will then be travelling in the same direction - carving style.
The other option is wide stance 'racing snowplough' style, but be sure that your poles are vertical  Good fun with the kids.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nadenoodlee, It's all about posture 
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david@mediacopy,
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If you are catching an 'inside' edge it suggests that you are skiing in small a plough\wedge
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Surely its the other way round, you would be on the inside and catch the outside..... don't need to be in a wedge for it to happen, skis just need to grip something and turn any off balance weighting will do it.
If we are seriously talking about trying to stop this and its a constant problem, ask someone to have a gander at your boots canting, this may be a big factor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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dulcamara, noooo! that means when you do fall your poles try and enter your torso via your armpits.
catching edges almost disappeared once shaped skis came in , what's all the fuss about?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| dulcamara wrote: |
| Surely its the other way round, you would be on the inside and catch the outside..... don't need to be in a wedge for it to happen, skis just need to grip something and turn any off balance weighting will do it. |
Well, you could catch the 'outside' if you are in the inside edges, but if both inside edges are 'engaged' the side cut on each ski naturally makes them want to cross. The faster you go the more skill is needed to keep them under control.
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I really hate going flat out without engaging an edge and thus always follow rob@rar's advice, it feels safer, more control, and no flapping tips.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Keep the skis on an edge at all time, much easier to keep the skis under control. Don't let the skis go flat for too long otherwise they can wander and then it's much more likely to catch an edge.
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cheers rob@rar, - it is one of my nightmares as had a hideous wipeout on a flat piste at speed catching an edge.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You can roll from edge to edge if need to. You'll lose no significant speed doing this, assuming you roll cleanly on to the edge.
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In fact - exercise done with easiski on a gentle run - "ankle rolling" cleanly from edge to edge, shins parallel. Get someone to tell you how you're doing (and shouting at you when you've got it wrong!) Really good exercise. And when that's cracked - do it on one leg - no need to waste those long gentle runs!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Problem - catching an edge.
Solution - get wider skis.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| mfj197 wrote: |
Problem - catching an edge.
Solution - get wider skis. |
Just out of interest, why should wider skis fix the problem?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
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You can roll from edge to edge if need to. You'll lose no significant speed doing this, assuming you roll cleanly on to the edge.
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In fact - exercise done with easiski on a gentle run - "ankle rolling" cleanly from edge to edge, shins parallel. Get someone to tell you how you're doing (and shouting at you when you've got it wrong!) Really good exercise. And when that's cracked - do it on one leg - no need to waste those long gentle runs! |
and of course then there is 'pumping' the skis as you change from edge to edge... I chase patrollers doing that(and catch up)
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| mfj197 wrote: |
Problem - catching an edge.
Solution - get wider skis. |
Just out of interest, why should wider skis fix the problem? |
One's centre of mass needs to be further out of alignment before the edge comes into play. Ski on two snowboards and you'd never catch an edge! Turning might be rather more difficult ...
(My first post was a rather tongue in cheek comment though! Apologies )
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 18-11-09 14:08; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Follow rob@rar's advice. If you are skiing on skis with a lot of sidecut it is easier to catch an edge: on straights you can very slightly roll from one set of edges to the other, these skis want to turn and in the absence of instructions will do what they want and there is no guarantee that the left and right on will do the same thing
If you were catching an edge while actually properly skiing you have too much weight on the inside ski.
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| mfj197 wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| mfj197 wrote: |
Problem - catching an edge.
Solution - get wider skis. |
Just out of interest, why should wider skis fix the problem? |
One's centre of mass needs to be further out of alignment before the edge comes into play. Ski on two snowboards and you'd never catch an edge! Turning might be rather more difficult ... |
OK, I understand. Wider skis are harder to get on edge than narrower skis, therefore less likely to catch one when you don't want to.
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I don't catch an edge very often. Maybe I'm going too slowly for this to affect me or maybe it's just that the hire skis I end up with don't have much in the way of edges! 
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If whilst making parallel turns you keep catching the inside edge of the inside ski(usually nearish the front)....causing you to piroutte round and end up facing where you came from I would hesitate a guess that a little work on your stance could make a big difference. Get a friend to give you a hand next time your out and see if you are skiing with legs in a bit of an A-frame. If so then spending some time with hands on knees, conciously focussing on keeping legs running parrallel from hips to toes and working towards both legs/feet/skis and thus knees staying equidistant through the turn will help wonders.
If your legs are working fine and stance is not the problem then the other thing I can suggest is that you could be over rotating the inside ski through the latter part of the turn, causing a sort of reverse wedge and thus presenting the slope with the chance to grab that edge. Nothing a bit of braquage won't help to fix!
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Some of the above is great advice but I would definately take a look at your boots cuff alignment (incorrectly called canting by boot manufacturers and boot fitters). If this is even then it could also be foot/ankle posture that is ensuring the ski is not flat when you think you are gliding. This can be fixed with canting shims in the boots (not under the bindings) and takes accurate measurement. This is especially true of individuals who catch an 'uphill' edge in the turn as the foot posture doesn't allow the skier to get this ski 'off edge' even though their body position is telling them it is off edge.
Staying/weighting one edge, even when presented with a flat slope, will help but if the above is not looked at the problem will persist.
Hope this helps, P
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On a board, if your weight is properly forward then it's almost impossible to catch an edge. Can't see why that should be any different on skis. (I do both, although my skiing technique is pretty random!).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DaddyLouLou, that was exactly the question I was going to post following on from the same thread. 
My worst wipeouts have been whilst shooshing. Because of that I now get to the stage when I'm thundering along thinking 'bloody hell......if I catch an edge at this speed' rather than thinking 'Hey, what a great feeling - look how fast I'm going'. It doesn't help when my left ski starts to 'chatter' on the snow (probably my weight isn't quite equal). Bigger, better, heavier, stiffer ski's seem to minimise this though - the Rossi's I tried in VT last Dec didn't have that problem. It's almost back to the 'fear' thing in the BZK thread - anyone has that skill to shoosh a relatively flat section of green if you are trying to get up a slight rise, rather than end up poling, yet there is almost a critical speed when I find fun transfers to taking a critical interest in what I'm doing, how I'm doing it and how to keep on doing it without stacking it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Megamum wrote: |
DaddyLouLou, that was exactly the question I was going to post following on from the same thread.
My worst wipeouts have been whilst shooshing.... |
Yes.. know exactly what you mean. Mine [fast wipeouts running flat] were bad too, Going on from what rob@rar, says.. when running 'flat' I now l try to keep on one edge, although it is more a matter just being aware of being ever so slightly 'biased'..you're not really on an edge.. to all intents and purposes you're running pretty flat, but it makes you aware of where your edges actually 'are'.
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Whoa....people......back two paces - if we stick these skis on an edge doesn't that imply we will start to turn? These are carving skis's after all - and any turn irons off speed doesn't it? Just what you don't want to do when trying to, for example, get back to town from the Knife and Fork in VT to avoid poling.
Is it possible to set a carving ski on edge and not have it turn? - Now that could be an interesting question.......
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum, Yes, there's degrees of edging though.. I'd rather get down upright, ever so slightly edging than walk the last 1/4 mile...
Alternative is to ski on one ski, you'd be hard pushed to catch an edge then... I have found that sometimes one ski does run faster than two
Added, cos I forgot... and is pertinant...
Carved turns don't really reduce speed, in my limited experiance.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 19-11-09 0:13; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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done my fair share of edge catching - on a recent session in the fridge, Rob suggested that I might need to narrow my stance a little. I'll give that a go when I head back out on the mountain...
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Poster: A snowHead
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narc,
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| If you are skiing on skis with a lot of sidecut it is easier to catch an edge |
Uh?
No.
Catching an edge was (is) massively easier when you are skiing on straight skis. Can't really recall why. I haven't caught an edge since circa 2001 but did frequently between 1970 and 2000.
Megamum, you're not taking account of skidding though...if there was absolutely no skidding, you wouldn't be able to traverse on skis without doing little waves across the slope.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, Yes, you are right in thinking that putting the skis on edge will cause a turn, but you are also reducing the friction of the ski on the snow surface by being on edge. Obviously if you keep the ski on edge there will be some turn introduced, which is why Rob@rar suggested rolling from edge to edge. The overall effect is that you're not putting in turns to slow speed but just edging to keep speed up.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The thing to remember about carve ski's is that the power of the ski is usually in the tail, that's where the ski is stiffest. The release of pressure at the tail, ie the end of the turn, is what will accelerate you. So, turning doesn't necessarily scrub off speed, if done right on flat a flatish section it can maintain speed or even accelerate you.
P
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I'm no expert but I thought that as long as you maintain a straghtish line i.e. aren't turning to actively slow down that the more carving/turning you do the faster you can get?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Whoa....people......back two paces - if we stick these skis on an edge doesn't that imply we will start to turn? These are carving skis's after all - .. |
Yes, it'll turn, if ever so slightly (little edging == big S shape turn).
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| and any turn irons off speed doesn't it? |
That's the part that isn't. If you're "carving", you don't lose speed. You only lose speed if you're skidding.
In summary, put the skis on slight edge for control. You'll be going at a slight arc instead of a straight line. You might need to alternate the edges so you end up straight ahead in the end.
You'll find you feel a lot more in control while on edge. And you won't feel the urge to "break", which end up costing you either speed or a wipe out.
The only tricky bit is changing edges without any skid. If your edge change is sloppy, you can easily tell you lost speed in the process. So do it VERY, VERY gradually, and FEEL the edge engage and disengage, CLEANLY... 
(I can talk a good game but I doubt my edge change is all that "clean". Still, I'm not going back to running the skis flat any more. How I've managed to ski "dangerously" for so long is just beyond me! )
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| abc wrote: |
| How I've managed to ski "dangerously" for so long is just beyond me! |
I'd hardly call skiing on the bases dangerous. Plus if you're shussing it will always take slightly longer if you're on edge because the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, not a series of S-bends.
I can't help wondering if the phenomenon of catching edges is partially down to the current thinking of having a wider stance. Certainly last year I narrowed my stance down a bit (okay, I was doing a bit more off-piste so was good practice) and I was on wider skis, but I found catching edges seemed to have become a thing of the past for me. Having the skis a bit closer together meant they were more likely to act as one, rather than as two independent entities.
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Every time I've caught an edge it's been due to one ski finding some snow that is somewhat different in thickness or consistency to the snow that the other ski is on. That ski tries to wander off on a frolic of its own, and I either react quickly and appropriately to the change of direction, or I end up in a heap.
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if you're shussing it will always take slightly longer if you're on edge because the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, not a series of S-bends.
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The shortest distance between two points maybe a straight line. That doesn't equate you'll get to the end any sooner by taking the shortest line.
Running on the edge maybe faster due to the decreased friction. With higher speed, you can take a longer line and still get to the end sooner.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm just envisiging the chaos that might ensue the first time I try this rolling edge to edge bit at higher speeds. I can get edge to edge and even make a respectable attempt at carving these days, but that's when I'm happy with speed I'm doing it at - there are some cases when if you don't shoosh a bit faster than that you don't make the next rise without poling!!
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I can get edge to edge and even make a respectable attempt at carving these days, but that's when I'm happy with speed I'm doing it at - there are some cases when if you don't shoosh a bit faster than that you don't make the next rise without poling!! |
My point being you'll feel more in control when on edge.
So the speed you are "happy with doing it at" may actually be a higher speed, taking you over the next rise without poling!
I can only suggest you try it next time you're out. Not when you need to get over a rise. But just a flat stretch. See how far you get before you stop with both way of doing it. You might be surprised.
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