 Poster: A snowHead
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hi guys, after a few weeks of confusion and discussion over tyres and chains i have found some good information on the matter. Firstly, sorry if i have offended anyone with what ive said, i understand that you were only trying to help and thanks for the info. Here is the info off a website that i have found. I have included all the major and likely ski destinations that people are likely to visit over the coming months. I hope this is of some assistance to you, cheers, rick.
France
The use of winter tyres is not mandatory in France. Nevertheless in some situations special signs indicate that winter tyres should be used. In mountainous areas signs warn drivers that snow chains are necessary. In France, drivers of automobiles that weigh up to 3.5 tonnes can use spikes from November until the end of March. Vehicles using spikes are restricted to a maximum speed of 90 km/h on out-of-town roads and 50 km/h in residential areas. In addition vehicles have to bare a badge indicating the use of spikes.
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Switzerland
The Swiss regulations are similar to those used in France. There is no general obligation to use winter tyres, although most motorist associations highly recommend the use of winter tyres for insurance reasons. If an accident has been caused by the use of summer tyres during the winter months this can lead to liability on the part of the driver, regardless of whether or not they have fully comprehensive insurance. Snow chains and spikes are generally optional, but their use can be enforced through road signs. Drivers using spikes are not generally allowed on motorways. Again, 50km/h and 80km/h speed limits are in place, in and out of town.
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Austria
Winter tyres are mandatory in Austria. The law states that passenger cars with a permissible maximum weight of up to 3.5 tonnes may be operated only between 1 November and 15 April in winter conditions such as snow, slush or ice if winter tyres have been installed on all wheels. All-season tyres are also considered winter tyres if they have the "M + S" mark.
As an alternative to winter tyres, snow chains may be used on at least two driving wheels, however, these may only be used in case the road is covered by a complete or scarcely broken snow cover or sheet of ice. Failure to comply with the law results in a fine up to 5,000 Euros and the vehicle could be impounded. Insurance is deemed void if a vehicle which is involved in an accident between November 1 and April 15 is not fitted with winter tyres.
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Italy
It is not compulsory to use winter tyres in Italy although you are obliged to if the authorities request it. There are no regulations on the use of snow chains. Motorists using spikes have to comply with 90km/h and 50 km/h speed limits.
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Finland
In Finland winter tyres are compulsory from 1st December to the end of February, a regulationthat also applies to cars that have been registered abroad.
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Latvia
In Latvia winter tyres are obligatory from 1st December until the end of February.
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Norway
As in Latvia, Norwegian drivers must ensure that winter tyres are fitted during the coldest months. Winter tyres are not, however, mandatory for cars registered outside of the country.
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Sweden
Winter tyres are only compulsory for Swedish nationals.
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Slovenia
From 15 November until 15 March Slovenian motorists are legally required to use winter equipment. This means either winter tyres or radial tyres with a minimum tread depth of 4 mm. According to Slovenian law two winter tyres per automobile is sufficient.
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Germany
Winter tyres are not compulsory in Germany but they are a legal requirement in some mountainous areas.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That's still just as "grey" as before. Not definative at all
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
hi guys, after a few weeks of confusion and discussion over tyres and chains i have found some good information on the matter. Firstly, sorry if i have offended anyone with what ive said, i understand that you were only trying to help and thanks for the info. Here is the info off a website that i have found. I have included all the major and likely ski destinations that people are likely to visit over the coming months. I hope this is of some assistance to you, cheers, rick.
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if you're presenting this as the defacto answer then you really SHOULD reference the source with a link.
you could be quoting ADAC (the German AA) who I'd expect to be correct or something you've just knocked up on a word-processor...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
hi guys, after a few weeks of confusion and discussion over tyres and chains i have found some good information on the matter. Firstly, sorry if i have offended anyone with what ive said, i understand that you were only trying to help and thanks for the info. Here is the info off a website that i have found. I have included all the major and likely ski destinations that people are likely to visit over the coming months. I hope this is of some assistance to you, cheers, rick.
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if you're presenting this as the defacto answer then you really SHOULD reference the source with a link.
you could be quoting ADAC (the German AA) who I'd expect to be correct or something you've just knocked up on a word-processor... |
just for your benefit that i have not made it up on processor, here is the link. pretty usefull i thought, oh and its from the uk
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snow tyres or chains are not mandatory, except when they are. So that's fine then, glad that's cleared up.
If any of us have to put chains on to get to our alpine destinations in the early part of the season we should offer up a few prayers of thanksgiving. The way things are looking right now we'll be sitting having picnics in flower-strewn meadows.
The bit of information relevant in Switzerland is that rental cars are legally required to have snow tyres. But the companies are not legally required to let you have them without an additional charge. They will also charge you silly prices on the day for additional drivers. And possibly make you wait ages before taking the money off you so you can start your journey. Relax; you're on holiday!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/snow-chains-winter-tyres.html
Regarding Austria, for example, the AA advice conflicts with the big run down above. It says that the rules apply to "residents". Vistors are treated differently. Personally, I'm not about to rush out and buy a new set of M&S tyres if I don't have to. Them new Vredestein Extreme jobbies look appealing for all year round though - so, next time I replace the set it'll be those.
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Ricklovesthepowder, Sorry mate bertie bassett, beat me to it. Oh and there's no link in your last post. 
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Ricklovesthepowder, I spent a while Googling and there simply is no definitive information to be found that way. Nice try.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry to butt in but I think regardless of whether you are required by law to carry chains it is a good idea to have them anyway. If you have ever been caught out without chains when you need them you'll know why, being stranded is no fun. Soft new snow does not always cause the problems, its the packed stuff after a few cars have passed over it. For the sake of £40 or so it can save you a lot of nause getting the last few Km to resort, or out (down hill!!). You can always use them at home too, remember last winter here.
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I've been stopped for speeding in alpine areas and never once has the cop looked at my tyres, asked about emergency kit or asked for anything other than my license. I think you can get carried away with "the rules". Be safe but don't be a mug.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
it is a good idea to have them anyway.
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of course, but that's been exhaustively covered elsewhere and I don't think anybody has suggested it's not a good idea. Indeed not only is it a "good idea", it's sometimes the case that the police will simply stop anybody without chains even if they have snow tyres. The OP's earlier obsession with what is "legally required" is a red herring. It's not what's "legally required" that's important, but what you actually need.
I've had French cops demanding to see car registration and insurance papers, too - maybe I just look more shifty than Bode Swiller
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
| [i]hi guys, after a few weeks of confusion and discussion over tyres and chains i have found some good information on the matter. |
It is the same debate every autumn on snowheads, people will still be confused but thanks for your help. Would have been easier just to post a link to the website where this information came from.
I posted what "The Law" was in France a couple of years back to one of the threads thanks to my nice wife who researched it for us but there is a lot of shades of grey when you look at things like a definition of a winter tire or whether snowsocks are considered a traction aid or not.
My own personal opinion is that I would always want to have a set of chains in the boot for driving a car in any mountain region whatever the law says I need. In 20 years of daily alpine driving I've maybe fitted them no more than a dozen times but on half of those occassions I would have been completely stuck without them. Someone coming on a week's ski holiday can figure the odds from that.
Regarding tires, a nice earner for French cops is making sure you obey the laws of not mixing tire brands on the same axle. They are possibly more easy going on tourists but if you are French registered they can really go over everything from A-Z. There is a directive out at the moment to be very repressive on motorists following some poor accident statistics.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I've had French cops demanding to see car registration and insurance papers, too - maybe I just look more shifty than Bode Swiller |
They're thinking "Sacre bleu, une femme avec un voiture sur la fresh neige, quelque chose next," whereas I get "Ah Herr Sviller, ve haf been expecting you".
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You know it makes sense.
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..and if anyone is thinking of putting studied tyres on for a drive to the Alps, it's illegal to drive on UK roads with Studied Tyres. I've been told by Grampian Police Road cops that its technically illegal to drive with snow chains on a public highway in the UK, but none the less they sometimes restrict traffic on the A939 to 4wd or chains! Just to add a bit more muddle to the debate!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Winterhighland, I think the law in the UK states that it's illegal to drive on the public highway with anything fitted which is likely to cause damage to the metalled surface. Studded tyres are illegal for sure, as they cannot be easily removed once road conditions no longer warrant their use, unlike Snow Chains.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Ricklovesthepowder, I spent a while Googling and there simply is no definitive information to be found that way. Nice try. |
here is the link that i forgot to put in for you, hope this will allow you to sleep better tonight lol http://www.etyres.co.uk/winter-tyres-law
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ricklovesthepowder, couple of things... the article referred to is dated 2004. Things will have moved on since then. Secondly, etyres are in the business of selling tyres so might just be interested in swaying things their way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Ricklovesthepowder, couple of things... the article referred to is dated 2004. Things will have moved on since then. Secondly, etyres are in the business of selling tyres so might just be interested in swaying things their way. |
| etyres wrote: |
| So what will it take to kick-start the winter tyre market?" |
Hardly dis-interested observers are they?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
| Nevertheless in some situations special signs indicate that winter tyres should be used. |
I've not seen a sign in France suggested that winter tyres should be used. I've seen plenty of signs suggesting that they CAN be used as an alternative to chains, but that's not exactly the same thing is it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Given the title of the thread could be mis-leading at best perhaps it should be changed?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Given the title of the thread could be mis-leading at best perhaps it should be changed? |
howabout "Winter Tyres - Some views from a tyre-pimp" i.e. etyres, not the OP
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or
Winter tyres more confusing out of date info for the innocent abroad.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Snow tyres or chains are not mandatory |
Are snow tyres and winter tyres the same thing?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DB wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Snow tyres or chains are not mandatory |
Are snow tyres and winter tyres the same thing? |
Nope
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DB, If you read snowHeads you will know they are not 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Since when have you two been called Pam? (and yes I know the answer)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the whole subject is complex and quite confusing, and incapable of being defined in a few simple sentences (as is the case with most areas of the law, actually). Probably, individuals who are experts in one of the relevant jurisdictions (it's improbable anyone is an expert in more than one) could give us a layman's guide in a couple of pages - with lots of caveats and warnings. Anyone who thinks the position in half a dozen jurisdictions can be adequately summed up in a page and a half is deluding himself.
However, only prosecutors or defence lawyers in those jurisdictions really need to know all that. The rest of us need to have a commonsensical understanding of how to be safe, and how to avoid getting stuck or being stopped from getting to (or from) our destination if the weather turns nasty. There's plenty of information available here about that. Not that everyone will agree - some will spend more on safety than others, some will take a chance and will mostly get away with it. Some will boast of doing Calais to the alps non-stop at 90 mph, and they'll mostly get away with it too. Most inadequately equipped and skilled off piste skiers will get away with it.....
The information on "winter" versus "snow" versus "all season" tyres is also confusing - I have read a lot of info here, and on various tyre and motoring websites, I have been using them for years, bought at least half a dozen (most recently Vredestein Snowtrac 3, which did v well on the Swiss motoring organisation test) and I still couldn't give a coherent account off the top of my head. I'm satisfied, though, that (in part due to what I've learnt from various more petrol-headed Snowheads ) that my vehicle is well prepared, I have good quality chains of the right size and I can normally put them on in a couple of minutes. Even in a blizzard.
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mah! (to the OP) - and that's all I got to say about that! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| The information on "winter" versus "snow" versus "all season" tyres is also confusing - I have read a lot of info here, and on various tyre and motoring websites, I have been using them for years, bought at least half a dozen (most recently Vredestein Snowtrac 3, which did v well on the Swiss motoring organisation test) and I still couldn't give a coherent account off the top of my head. I'm satisfied, though, that (in part due to what I've learnt from various more petrol-headed Snowheads ) that my vehicle is well prepared, I have good quality chains of the right size and I can normally put them on in a couple of minutes. Even in a blizzard. |
To the Americans "winter" and "snow" tyres often mean the same thing.
Here in Europe snow tyres have a softer compound and are not generally designed for motorway speeds or bare road surfaces.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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DB,
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Here in Europe snow tyres have a softer compound and are not generally designed for motorway speeds or bare road surfaces.
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and to that end generally have a max speed clearly marked on the tyre wall.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Norway...
There must be a minimum of 1.6 mm tread on summer tyres and a minimum of 3 mm on winter tyres.
Vehicles must not be used unless they have sufficient road grip for the road surface.
Winter tyres, studded or non-studded, are compulsory from November 1st until the first Sunday after Easter.
Outside these dates it is an offence to use studded tyres or chains, unless snow and icy conditions demand it.
It is an offence at any time to not have winter tyres when conditions demand it (see point on sufficient grip above).
Note: "all season" tyres are ok in a strictly legal sense, but poorly suited to winter conditions in most of Norway.
They may be deemed "insufficient" if you are involved in an accident!
I cannot find any reference to foreign registered vehicles being exempt (which would be stupid anyway).
Vehicles over 3.5t must have chains available and they must fit the tyres.
Most Norwegians do not have chains in the car unless they're heading for the mountains. Most people
outside the main cities still prefer studded tyres for the winter months (clickety-click). In Oslo, Bergen and
Trondheim there is a toll for using studded tyres.
That's a layman's summary 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| squawker wrote: |
Norway...
There must be a minimum of 1.6 mm tread on summer tyres and a minimum of 3 mm on winter tyres.
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It's 4 mm (sometimes 5 mm dependent on tyre type - crossply) here in Austria.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Was surprized last week to hear that all my 4 winter tyres needed replacing after only ca 20000 km. Couldn't believe it so asked to see the tyres only to realize that they weren't my tyres. Have been waiting for a call from the garage since 7:00am to see if they have found the tyres. Check the depth and condition of your tyres when putting them into storage at the end of the season.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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squawker, Thanks for the info. Just curious why they use Easter as the changeover date. To me, it doesn't make much sense for require winter tyres to be taken off nearly a month earlier some years than others.
I do remember a couple (or 3) of years ago there was much chaos in S Norway and, IIRC, foreign lorry drivers without winter tyres where blamed for many of the problems. I don't recall if they were breaking the law or "just" being annoying.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| peura wrote: |
squawker, Thanks for the info. Just curious why they use Easter as the changeover date. To me, it doesn't make much sense for require winter tyres to be taken off nearly a month earlier some years than others.
I do remember a couple (or 3) of years ago there was much chaos in S Norway and, IIRC, foreign lorry drivers without winter tyres where blamed for many of the problems. I don't recall if they were breaking the law or "just" being annoying. |
You have to understand Norwegian culture In the lowlands there is usually zero need for winter tyres by Easter. But everyone (in the affluent but lacking in snow, lowland city areas) wants to go to the mountains for Easter week to get their last major snow fix of the year. Norwegians own cabins in the mountains. Norwegians live and breathe cross country skiing.... so they're allowed to drive safely home from Easter holidays (usually on Easter Monday), after which they have a week to switch their wheels.
In the northern part of the country the winter period is defined as October 15th to May 1st.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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squawker, that makes sense now. I didn't realise it was different in the north. Was thinking the ends of the season would be the most hazardous as the snow becomes as "slippery as soap" .
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DB, So over ambitious tyre salesmen aren't confined to Kwik fit
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I suspect it is an honest mistake and two sets of tyres with the same dimensions got mixed up in storage. It's possible that my tyres/wheels are already on another car though. I normally get 4 winters out of the winter tyres and they are past their shelf life by then anyway.
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| peura wrote: |
| squawker, that makes sense now. I didn't realise it was different in the north. Was thinking the ends of the season would be the most hazardous as the snow becomes as "slippery as soap" . |
There aren't many ski resorts that far north though - not ones that most tourists would be interested in. Hafjell, Kvitfjell, Geilo, Hemsedal, Trysil, Oppdal etc. all count as southern Norway in this regard. The extended period is only valid for the "counties" of Nordland, Troms and Finnmark, which are partly or entirely north of the arctic circle (it runs through Nordland).
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FAQ
- But they are mine and have more than 75000 under their belts! Still going to cost me €300 for fitting etc. I noticed that the one down to 3mm (rear nearside) was slipping on the wetter corners as I came down from the Sölden glacier the other week. The old ABS was clunking away trying to cope with it. That's what made me decide to change now rather than later. The respective treads are 4.3, 4.1, 4.0 and 3.8 and that's after 5 winters. I've got 4 Vredstein Ice Crystals on order.
