 Poster: A snowHead
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Just thought out of curiosity, on this grey Tuesday afternoon, I'd find out how much tickets from London to Salzburg would be if we lived in London, and wanted a 5 day ski holiday late in the season, when hotels are much cheaper. Just a mindless exercise really as we live in Manchester!
So there I was on the (dare I mention the name...?) Ryanair website, and I chose 2 return flights at £1.99 each way Stansted to Salzburg. Then I added 2 lots of luggage (at only 15 kg per person) and 1 ski bag, no insurance, no selected seats, or anything else other than to be seated inside the plane, not on a wing outside. I have an electron card (specifically applied for to avoid card fees) and the grand total came to £281.86 !  I just smiled and thought...well, it could have been worse, I might have had to estimate how many times I needed to leave my seat, and been charged for wear and tear to the carpet! I guess it's not a lot of money these days, I just wish they would increase the fare at the outset, so you didn't have to get right to the point of paying for your ticket to be able to work out how competitive the amount is 
Still... it passed a bit of time 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 3-11-09 17:52; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hence the reason I'm driving to Austria this Easter!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sharon1953, it's a joke, isn't it? Still, they are making money, and BA aren't. So they must be getting something right!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Time it right and you'd get MAN-MUC for 2x€89 + 1x€14 booking fee on a real airline. Let's assume the transfer from MUC to the ski resort would cancel the MAN-STN transfer.
Allocated seat, free ski/board carriage, and a free sarnie+coke (on LH - only a packet of birdseed on BA). OK the GBP:EUR exchange rate is a bit knackered now which pushes the price up a bit compared to what it used to be.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As Michael O'L was bleating yesterday we are using Ryanair rather than BA because we want cheap flights 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Am I the only one getting bit tired of the ryanair bashing? Nobody's forcing you to fly with them.
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I don't love Ryanair but that's still £140 per person to take you half way across Europe and back, with skis. I call that relatively cheap. There are other things to hate them for...
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I've just booked a couple of flights to Dublin for £0.00 ... er, make that £142.08. Aer Lingus this time - all Irish airlines are the same. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is great for the Ferry Ops and Tunnel as their prices are more what you see, is what you get. IME
I understand flights are struggling but I do think this approach is a shot in the foot in the numbers game...
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Timmaah, I'm with you.
It is getting to the point now that everyone knows the price is only going to be that if you travel with nothing but your hand luggage, a large increase over that for bags etc is expected.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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andy, Well I've looked at lots of ways of doing it, even lots of non-direct flights, which logistically is a nightmare if there are delays. Using other airports in Austria adds so much to the cost it's cheaper to use a TO and go for a week! Driving is out, that's not a holiday for us - especially if the driving is all down to one person due to some mishap in the snow! Timmaah, I wasn't actually bashing their cost - if you care to re-read, I was musing at the frustrating way of arriving at the total. Had it shown the price at the beginning, including the basics (as some airlines do) it makes life simpler!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Very interested in the whole Ryanair debate, as i think it's disgusting how they can advertise "prices from" as it's extremely anti-competitive. Anyway, you got me interested, and I've nothing much to do this afternoon, so I had a quick look on the British Airways site ...
Gatwick to Salzburg for 2 people towards the end of season (March 21st) - 5 day holiday - 23kg luggage per person (no extra ski bag, but skis can be included in this) ... £239.60 including all taxes!!
(plus you get snacks and drinks!)
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Not so much the case of getting to the end to find out what the price will be, but the fact that all of these airlines do not ever appear on sites like expedia, so you can't easily compare. If prices do appear on such sites they sue their asses off.
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You know it makes sense.
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andy, Well Skyscanner does scrape all the budget airlines, to work out the basic price, then of course you have to log on to the airline's actual sites to start the purchase process, that's when you get the "real" price.
snowsteve, I miss the BA flight from Manchester, it was a really good price, great service and they didn't cancel. It seems Manchester is now charging so much for airlines to use the airport, they are pricing themselves out of the market
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A better question might be ignoring all the crap. Do you think £140 return is too much to fly to austria? Sounds reasonable enough to me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Its BA all the way for us, the price you see is the price you pay. I think thats what people get pissed about with Ryanair, the price you see is NEVER the price you pay.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I read the title of this thread and immediately knew it was about Ryanair - amazing
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kyoto49 wrote: |
| Its BA all the way for us, the price you see is the price you pay. I think thats what people get pissed about with Ryanair, the price you see is NEVER the price you pay. |
^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^ couldnt agree more, nothing worse than getting a price and 10 minute s and 5 pages later its shot up 300%
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| frank4short wrote: |
| A better question might be ignoring all the crap. Do you think £140 return is too much to fly to austria? Sounds reasonable enough to me. |
No, but its a big jump from the headline price of £8 each. That's a lot of money for 15kg luggage each and a ski bag (I wonder how much it works out as a kilo of person weight v kilo of luggage weight)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How much of that is actually from the taxes as well?
Just had a quick look myself & a large portion of the cost it would appear is due to charges.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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frank4short, showing a price which does not include unavoidable taxes isn't exactly transparent pricing IMV
not that i particularly care about ryanair - never have a reason to use them so their practice don't really affect me
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I thought the advertised price per ticket had to include all unavoidable costs per ticket? So only things that can be added on after (assuming you decline all avoidable fees) are the booking fee for the booking (not per ticket) and the penalties for not using electron (again penatly per booking not per ticket).
Or did the EU totally balls up the ticket advertising regulations?
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Timmaah, of course actively getting involved in a discussion about Ryanair when you're tired of hearing people bashing them has to be considered masochistic! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
plus you get snacks and drinks
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provided the cabin crew haven't bankrupted them in the meantime.
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Basil Short_trousers,
I just want to go skiing!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It certainly is annoying, but is £140.00 pp to the Alps not reasonable?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well now I feel smug having paid the grand sum of £66 return for an EJ flight to GVA on 26/2 which includes my hold luggage 
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| kyoto49 wrote: |
| Its BA all the way for us, the price you see is the price you pay. I think thats what people get pissed about with Ryanair, the price you see is NEVER the price you pay. |
Both of those statements are false in some ways.
The price you see most certainly IS the price you pay with Ryanair, provided you don't want to take anything but hand luggage.
As soon as you want anything more than the basic "get me and my hand luggage to my destination", then you do have to pay more. But everybody knows that, here is no sneakiness about it.
But even with BA, the up front price is not the whole price, if you want to take skis.
The Ryanair model is more honest, and more "fair".
But people don;t like it because they think they are being charged for things which are "free" with other airlines. Whereas in reality, with other airlines, those who don't use the "extras" are subsidising those who do.
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You know it makes sense.
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| frank4short wrote: |
How much of that is actually from the taxes as well?
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None.
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Just had a quick look myself & a large portion of the cost it would appear is due to charges. |
It usually is, but that has to be quoted in the initial price, along with any other fees that you cannot avoid.
It is always possible to fly paying only what is shown on the first page of the booking process. When they are advertising these really low prices, they usually waive taxes & fees, and their "online check-in" fee.
But when they don't those are always shown on the first page.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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alex_heney,
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kyoto49 wrote:
Its BA all the way for us, the price you see is the price you pay. I think thats what people get pissed about with Ryanair, the price you see is NEVER the price you pay.
Both of those statements are false in some ways.
The price you see most certainly IS the price you pay with Ryanair, provided you don't want to take anything but hand luggage.
As soon as you want anything more than the basic "get me and my hand luggage to my destination", then you do have to pay more. But everybody knows that, here is no sneakiness about it.
But even with BA, the up front price is not the whole price, if you want to take skis.
The Ryanair model is more honest, and more "fair".
But people don;t like it because they think they are being charged for things which are "free" with other airlines. Whereas in reality, with other airlines, those who don't use the "extras" are subsidising those who do. |
At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, if you are booking a flight to go skiing when would you ever not need to take hold luggage? Therefore, why quote a ridiculously cheap price for a ski flight knowing that the majority of travellers will need hold luggage? Ok there is a sense of caveat emptor but there is also a sense of "don't take the wee wee out of your customers" (even if they deserve it). 
Sorry, am I making sense?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| halfhand wrote: |
alex_heney,
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kyoto49 wrote:
Its BA all the way for us, the price you see is the price you pay. I think thats what people get pissed about with Ryanair, the price you see is NEVER the price you pay.
Both of those statements are false in some ways.
The price you see most certainly IS the price you pay with Ryanair, provided you don't want to take anything but hand luggage.
As soon as you want anything more than the basic "get me and my hand luggage to my destination", then you do have to pay more. But everybody knows that, here is no sneakiness about it.
But even with BA, the up front price is not the whole price, if you want to take skis.
The Ryanair model is more honest, and more "fair".
But people don;t like it because they think they are being charged for things which are "free" with other airlines. Whereas in reality, with other airlines, those who don't use the "extras" are subsidising those who do. |
At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, if you are booking a flight to go skiing when would you ever not need to take hold luggage? Therefore, why quote a ridiculously cheap price for a ski flight knowing that the majority of travellers will need hold luggage? Ok there is a sense of caveat emptor but there is also a sense of "don't take the wee wee out of your customers" (even if they deserve it).
Sorry, am I making sense? |
Even on flights to Geneva/Salzburg/Munich etc. not everybody will be a skier.
yes, on those flights most customers will be taking luggage, but not all will.
Yes, they could default to a bag each then let you take it off, rather than defaulting to the minimum then letting you add extras, but they prefer to do it the other way around. That is their choice, and it makes no difference to the final cost, just gives some people an artificial sense of grievance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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alex_heney, I have to say i agree with everything you say except the taxes & charges thing. Which they, ryanair, sometimes pay themselves just so they can remove them from the headline cost. I do however agree with all of the other statements about baggage, charges, etc.
Contrary to what the OP said £140 to fly to the alps return with skis & skiing equipment is pretty good i reckon once you remove the voice of righteous indignation about what the increase from the headline price. As an irishman that has to fly to get everywhere to get off of my island i also think ryanair provide a great service. With a little planning i can visit friends all over the UK for next to nothing with a little planning & forethought. I also flew to italy recently for a friends wedding for next to nothing. Flying with them is fine once you understand the terms & conditions & uphold your part of the contract.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The bottom line is what others have mentioned, if you feel that the fare of @ £150 is too dear for a return flight to go skiing, taking your bag and taking your skis. There are a couple of solutions. (1) Take the week off and go to Hemel, (2) Take small bag, hire skis and enjoy the week! I know which I would take! When you think about it, its cheaper than a lift pass to (lets say) St Anton, and you probably wont be on the lifts for as long as you will be on the plane!
If the £150 IS too much to consider spoiling the holiday, go to Hemel! Problem solved!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| halfhand wrote: |
alex_heney,
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kyoto49 wrote:
Its BA all the way for us, the price you see is the price you pay. I think thats what people get pissed about with Ryanair, the price you see is NEVER the price you pay.
Both of those statements are false in some ways.
The price you see most certainly IS the price you pay with Ryanair, provided you don't want to take anything but hand luggage.
As soon as you want anything more than the basic "get me and my hand luggage to my destination", then you do have to pay more. But everybody knows that, here is no sneakiness about it.
But even with BA, the up front price is not the whole price, if you want to take skis.
The Ryanair model is more honest, and more "fair".
But people don;t like it because they think they are being charged for things which are "free" with other airlines. Whereas in reality, with other airlines, those who don't use the "extras" are subsidising those who do. |
At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, if you are booking a flight to go skiing when would you ever not need to take hold luggage? Therefore, why quote a ridiculously cheap price for a ski flight knowing that the majority of travellers will need hold luggage? Ok there is a sense of caveat emptor but there is also a sense of "don't take the wee wee out of your customers" (even if they deserve it).
Sorry, am I making sense? |
When you have your own place out there and all your gear is left there. I am off to Les arcs for Xmas, my Son will be following us on 2 days later, I am taking his gear in the car. That's 2 scenarios.
Although I do agree that pricing should be more transparent. I cannot understand why people think they should be able to take hold luggage and a pair of skis with bag stuffed with even more gear and pay the same as someone on business with an overnight case.
I have actually taken a morning flight out to Milan and returned on the late evening flight and took no more than a laptop
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I cannot understand why people think they should be able to take hold luggage and a pair of skis with bag stuffed with even more gear and pay the same as someone on business with an overnight case.
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Because from the Wright Bros taking off until about 10 years ago that's exactly what happened! IMO this gave people every right to get perfectly used to luggage going for free and then finding it objectionable when this no longer applied. In fact, once upon a time, easyjet not only carried skis for free but also allowed an additional 10kg luggage allowance when doing so!
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| In fact, once upon a time, easyjet not only carried skis for free but also allowed an additional 10kg luggage allowance when doing so! |
For all of about 10mins was it possible to get cheap flights & free luggage like you mention. The rest of the 80 odd years of flight history that you mention flying was something that was very expensive largely only done by the well to do. So i think it's a bit disenguous the way you're putting it. After all if you'd wanted to fly from london to anywhere in the alps return 15 years ago it would have cost upwards of £250 for the privilege even if your luggage was travelling for free.
Edit: but you did get luggage for free, a free meal, a couple of drinks so of course that's worth having to spend the extra hundred quid not including inflation in that period of time. So having to spend 5 mins looking through a website to find out how much your flight actually costs is really tough.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
Because from the Wright Bros taking off until about 10 years ago that's exactly what happened! IMO this gave people every right to get perfectly used to luggage going for free and then finding it objectionable when this no longer applied. In fact, once upon a time, easyjet not only carried skis for free but also allowed an additional 10kg luggage allowance when doing so! |
Yes but times change... Nobody is forcing you to fly with them. It is up to the consumer. You are not privileged to the point where Ryanair should kiss your feet and throw their business model out of the window just because you dislike it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
I cannot understand why people think they should be able to take hold luggage and a pair of skis with bag stuffed with even more gear and pay the same as someone on business with an overnight case.
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Because from the Wright Bros taking off until about 10 years ago that's exactly what happened! IMO this gave people every right to get perfectly used to luggage going for free and then finding it objectionable when this no longer applied. In fact, once upon a time, easyjet not only carried skis for free but also allowed an additional 10kg luggage allowance when doing so! |
And then BUDGET airlines evolved into what they are today. I actually travel more on business than for leisure. It is NOW the business model of ALL budget airlines to allow me to travel cheaper like this than with 20KG of hold luggage and a pair of skis and quite rightly too.
Times change and now the light traveller is no longer subsidising the skiers, golfers etc.
As a matter of interest I also go SCUBA diving in the summer, as it's the only way you will now get me on a summer holiday to somewhere the OH wants to go. All my friends who dive said when you take this up, you will pack in skiing, it's the best holiday you will ever have. They were wrong, if I could ski somewhere decent in summer within budget I would give up diving. Anyway I digress, advise at the time of booking that you are a PADI qualified diver, show your card at check-in and you get an extra 5kg for free.
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| JT wrote: |
This is great for the Ferry Ops and Tunnel as their prices are more what you see, is what you get. IME
I understand flights are struggling but I do think this approach is a shot in the foot in the numbers game... |
I agree with that. I just booked a eurotunnel crossing for christmas because flying would have cost me in excess of £1000 to fly to Toulouse. It's going to be a pain to drive but we can do it in one day and it's going to cost us £131 plus fuel and motorway charges so about £400 all in and I can take the board on the roof rack (which I hadn't included in the flight pricing).
That's a £600 difference..well worth a long drive...
The more airlines combine restricted bagages weigths with high prices the more people are going to turn back to their cars... On the continent probablu maybe even more so as they don't have the added cost of a channel crossing.
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FAQ
