 Poster: A snowHead
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Right, so i buy a new car. So i plan to drive to the alps in France for my annual ski trip in January. I find a set of good quality snow chains at the right price for my 235/45/17 rim tyres.
I check the vehicle handbook and in big letters with a warning triangle is the following " DO NOT FIT SNOW CHAINS TO TYRE SIZE 235/45/17 "
But no alternative given.
Nice one Ford!!!!
Does anyone have any ideas 
Do i have to buy snow tyres or whts the altenative bearing in mind if you don't have chains in France the local plod like to shoot British drivers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Timbobaggins, change the whels?
And the plods won't shoot you, they just won't let you drive up the hill in a blizzard.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spikes spyders may still fit
http://www.roofbox.co.uk/spikes1.html
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 1-11-09 12:22; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Timbobaggins, probably same reason you can't fit them to Freelanders at larger wheel sizes, the chains will carve up the inside of your wheel arches on hard lock, teh answer at least with the Feelanders was to fit Spikes Spider chains which have nothing arround teh inside face of the tyre
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Given what it says in the manual, does fitting any kind of chains - even if they do fit - to the wheels - invalidate your warrantee and insurance?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Timbobaggins, cheap steel sheels of alternative dimensions?
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We had a similar issue and chose these:
http://www.snowchains.co.uk/main/quattro.htm
They're very adjustable, and very easy to fit once adjusted (which isn't that hard either, but you wouldn't want to bügger about with that process in the snow).
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Looks like these suggestions of Boredsurfing, and laundryman, could solve the problem.
We had exactly this with a Freelander three years ago - not till we had it did we realise that the wheels were too large for chains - so we bought smaller steel rims from ebay, with some ordinary tyres on them, drove to the car to France in November as we had to do a trip then, had winter tyres fitted and then kept them on all winter, on the return trips once or twice to the UK and then at the end of April they came off, and the original alloys with summer tyres went back on the car. All seemed to work well - and in fact in three years we didn't ever have to fit the chains in addition.
No longer have the Freelander and have just sold the steel rims and winter tyres which had plenty of wear on them still on ebay. If its just for a trip of a week its probably not worth the hassle is it, and easier just to get the type of chains that will fit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Timbobaggins, I had the same issues with a Renault with 245/45R18. www.snowchains.co.uk sorted it with some low profile Weissenfells chains, they're self tensioning and dead easy to fit. They'll give you a credit on them if you change cars too, should you need a different size. 
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Had a similar issue with 205/55R16's - seemed nobody made them or if they did they were so pricey it was cheaper to get new wheels+tyres. Now every other car has that size wheel, so there's a decent selection of M+S tyres and took ADAC only 1 minute to verify that their chains were suitable.
Next car however (when/if I get enough round tuits to visit the stealers) is 235/40R18. Had a quick nose at one today and wheel arch clearance is as good as my current one. Suspension etc. may be different. My plan is to put 205/55R16 winter wheels/tyres on (if it's a legal combination for the car), which gives a few mm extra clearance both radially and laterally. The less sporty model takes that size wheel so ought to be fine. But I'm not just doing one drive to the alps, and all the garages here are set up for people swapping wheels/tyres 2x per year.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Merc I had came with the same warning, except they would sell me an approved pair for about £250. Most of the reputable snowchains retailers are aware of models which will work with cars that recommend not fitting chains.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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From what I've seen of parked cars in the alps, a lot of the localish French cars have steel wheels in winter (even premium stuff like BMW/Merc) and keep the smart alloys for the summer. Changing wheels is easier than changing tyres, and the painfully expensive alloys are less likely to get trashed by salt/invisible kerbs hiding in the snow. Not worth for one or two trips though, although if next winter is anything like the last one, OH's work might need to think about winter wheels/tyres for the company cars, and I might need to consider changing the MR2 for something that is front wheel drive... Had to take 2 days' holiday last year as I couldn't get into work, although I wasn't brave enough to actually try to get the MR2 out of the drive, I could see enough BMWs (with modern traction control and ABS etc) going nowhere except sideways across the High street.
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Timbobaggins,
I am guessing thats a Mondeo Titanium X. I used to have an old shaped one as a company car. I bought a pair of steel wheels and part used winter tyres off ebay for less than £100.
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You know it makes sense.
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Changing the wheels in the firt and most obvious options. If you dont want to do that then you may consider these tyre socks..
Weissenfels cutting edge, design and performance has created a range of snow chains suitable for use on close clearance vehicles which other chain manufacturers can only dream of.[/img]
http://www.snowchains.co.uk/main/weisssock.htm
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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cue the chains vs socks debate which we haven't had since... well earlier this week actually.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Our car (VW Sharan) has the same warning - fitted and used low profile chains with no issue. give snowchains.co.uk a bell, I've always found them useful.
If you go down the stell wheel route, you may want to talk to your insurance company. As I discovered swapping the wheels means you are fitting non-standard equipment therefore premium applies - of course you could decide not to tell them, but they could refuse to pay up should something happen
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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boredsurfin, long time no see - where you been 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What car is it? I'd maybe pop some Vredestein Wintrac Extreme winter tyres on there and then not bother with chains.. I know many people want the security of chains as well but in so many circumstances you'll sail along and meet the requirements of the gendames etc... The law (if that's what you want to call it) is chains OR winter tyres. The symbol just happens to be a chain symbol. What resort you going to also? That would influence my decision.
I've been out to Tignes in my old 535d M Sport Touring and snow tyres did the trick in 40/50 of new snow and also slush.. totally covered road from Bourg.. the car was faultless even with 500lbs of torque ! Now i've got an A6 Quattro and just pop snow tyres on and naturally that's a dream. But a front wheel drive car (assuming it is as it's a Ford) will be better than my old BMW and that coped just fine.
Run them all winter anyway in the UK... I ran mine Nov - April last year and they still have 7mm left on them. But I do have two sets of rims so makes things easier and cheaper in the long run. The winter before it was very mild and the temp was around 12c often and the set I had then went down to 6mm at the end of the winter but that was in the BMW and that ate tyres anyway !
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| Quote: |
The law (if that's what you want to call it) is chains OR winter tyres
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Not so sure on that - The AA web site would indicate that chains are a legal requirement in France
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I use exactly the same tyres as Alex A on my e-class estate and found them a revelation in all snow conditions. In the past I have used snow socks (more effective than they look - never got stuck with them and useful for those intermittent snow/tarmac/snow conditions) and chains. As mentioned in another thread, as my car is rear wheel drive, I used to pop the socks on the front with chains on the back when conditions were especially bad as steering round a downhill bend with only chains on the back was an exciting experience. But it was all a faff so in the end I decided to do it properly and bought a set of alloys on flea-bay for £150 which I considered a bargain and slapped on the Vredesteins. Now it's an easy changeover in November.
Last year when driving up to Les Gets, there were six or seven Police checking tyres at the entrance to the resort and were pulling over cars that had summer tyres to check if they were carrying chains. Of course all UK plates were pulled as a matter of course - they waved me over but just as I stopped they took a quick glance at the tyres and waved me on again. Even though the snow was thick on the roads all week, I had no problems at all. They are a revelation.
I read somewhere (can't remember the link so you'll have to take my word for it) that my tyres stop a car of my particular weight about 6m shorter from 50mph when the temperature is below +7C compared to the average summer tyre. To me that's the difference from hitting another car/someone or not in an emergency - so well worth it imho in this country over the winter too. Of course my summers are not wearing out in the meantime so it's not really much of an extra cost when viewed that way. Of course I believe that the law states that chains must still be carried (?) so you may still have to buy a set, however, as mentioned above, the police did not check if I had chains after pulling me over when they saw my tyres.
Anyway, to answer the OP's question, I have experienced Maggi Trak snow chains in action on another car and they were quite effective considering that car had silly low profiles with almost zero clearance. They were really quick to fit too.
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| andy wrote: |
Had a similar issue with 205/55R16's - seemed nobody made them or if they did they were so pricey it was cheaper to get new wheels+tyres. Now every other car has that size wheel, so there's a decent selection of M+S tyres and took ADAC only 1 minute to verify that their chains were suitable.
Next car however (when/if I get enough round tuits to visit the stealers) is 235/40R18. Had a quick nose at one today and wheel arch clearance is as good as my current one. Suspension etc. may be different. My plan is to put 205/55R16 winter wheels/tyres on (if it's a legal combination for the car), which gives a few mm extra clearance both radially and laterally. The less sporty model takes that size wheel so ought to be fine. But I'm not just doing one drive to the alps, and all the garages here are set up for people swapping wheels/tyres 2x per year. |
Strange 205/55 R16 is one of the most common tyre sizes. You might be able to use them on winter tyres for a car that takes 235/40R18 in the summer - check the car's paperwork (zulassungsschein?) to see which tyres can be fitted.
Looks like the diameter difference is just over 2%.
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks all for replies. I think it will either be a set of Spikes Spiders which i think i have found somewhere who hires them, or some weissenfels Klack and Go Quattro's
Cannot see the point in putting winter tyres on when 3/4 of journey will be nice clear French M/Way
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
nice clear French M/Way
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You certainly can't guarantee that! I've had a fair bit of snow either on the way there or back the last couple of years.
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| Colin B wrote: |
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nice clear French M/Way
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You certainly can't guarantee that! I've had a fair bit of snow either on the way there or back the last couple of years. |
Ditto. Snow falling and settling on mway as far north as Dijon, and thick as far as Macon. Take no chances.
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You know it makes sense.
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| DB wrote: |
| Strange 205/55 R16 is one of the most common tyre sizes. |
It is now. M+S selection used to be pants. Now it's pretty good.
| DB wrote: |
| You might be able to use them on winter tyres for a car that takes 235/40R18 in the summer - check the car's paperwork (zulassungsschein?) to see which tyres can be fitted. |
Fahrzeugschein. Current car is listed as 6.5Jx16 and 7Jx16 for wheel size (with the appropriate ET offsets). No idea what would be on the new car's Fahzeugschein, since I haven't been to the stealers yet 
I already used the tyre size calculators to double-check the wheel arch clearance, and it was better for 205/55's.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| andyph wrote: |
| Colin B wrote: |
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nice clear French M/Way
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You certainly can't guarantee that! I've had a fair bit of snow either on the way there or back the last couple of years. |
Ditto. Snow falling and settling on mway as far north as Dijon, and thick as far as Macon. Take no chances. |
While I have seen snow falling thickly around Troyes - it has to be said there were numerous snow ploughs out keeping the roads clear. Saw more in a 40 mile stretch than the whole of SE UK
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Timbobaggins, interesting - not seen those before 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hmmm interesting. Bit pricier, but look too easy to install/remove. They look like they won't stay on the wheel, but obviously do.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Are those Michelin things what they use in Japan ? I read somewhere that the Japanese have more or less banned steel chains because of road damage and require some new kind of device.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Boris wrote: |
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The law (if that's what you want to call it) is chains OR winter tyres
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Not so sure on that - The AA web site would indicate that chains are a legal requirement in France |
They definately are not a LEGAL requirement. The AA are just playing the safe option and advising people to take chains as only a tiny % of the population would get snow tyres from the UK.
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| andy wrote: |
| I already used the tyre size calculators to double-check the wheel arch clearance, and it was better for 205/55's. |
It's not just a wheel arch issue, tempo accuracy comes into play. Not sure what the allowed difference/tolerance is but suspect it is 2% and those tyres fall just outside 2%. Fitting the wrong tyre / wheel combo could lead to problems with the police and your car insurance company.
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| Quote: |
| Neuartige Kunststoffkette aus Seilgeflecht mit teilweise sehr guten Traktionswerten auf verschneiter Fahrbahn, die aber im Tiefschnee deutlich nachlassen. Bei den Handlingfahrten löste sie sich, insbesondere bei Hecktrieblern, öfter vom Rad. So einfach die Demontage ist, so schwierig zeigt sich das Aufziehen. Beim Bremsen liegt sie im Mittelfeld, mit Schwächen in der Bremsleistung auf vereister Fahrbahn. Der Verschleißtest wurde nicht bestanden. |
Rough simple translation - New material of rope/cord netting. Good traction on snow roads but performance is much reduced in deep snow. Become loose and often come off wheels, esp. rear-wheel drive cars. Easy to take off, difficult to put on. Average breaking performance on snow, poor braking on ice. Failed the wear test.
http://www1.adac.de/Tests/Zubehoertests/Schneeketten_2008/EK/michelin_easygrip.asp?ComponentID=231973&SourcePageID=233368
In summary better than the snowsock type but metal beats them esp. on ice (traction and braking)
scroll down for results table (in german) lower score is better
http://www.autosieger.de/print.php?sid=16252
Doesn't look as though the Michelin Easy Grip will give any more clearance than a standard snow chain so don't see any advantage.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I had snow all the way from Reims a couple of years ago. There's just no substitute for winter tyres. They'll be going on the car within the next 4 weeks. I carry chains in the boot also.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 3-11-09 10:23; edited 1 time in total
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Yes winter tyres are like other rubbers, you won't always need them but you will be sorry when you don't have them - either missing out on the fun or taking a lot of risks.
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FAQ
