rob@rar, Don't think your advice was wrong....thought it was well balanced. My comment wasn't about you. Read thread from the top and you should see my point very quickly.
In any case, hopefully the OP will come back to let us know if they need more info etc.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We are going to Hemsedal that week as it is their 'family week' and they have a great offer which makes at almost affordable. The resort opens in mid-Nov and they have the snow cannon on now (I just checked the webcams) and they have snow forecast for this week.
Upsides
It will almost certainly have snow
They have a decent offer (family week 3780 NOK or about 400 GBP for unspecified accommodation for 2 adults, 1 youth, and 1 infant, 6 day ski passes and free ski rental for the infant)
Ski lessons are 25% off if you get a family package - 860 NOK for 4 x 1.5 hours each
They are very nice in Norway
You can fly Ryanair for 160GBP and get a car for 300
The kids instructors looked very good last year
Downsides
It is Norway and really, really expensive to get a drink in a bar
Food isn't cheap either and this is a self catering deal
There isn't a huge amount of sunlight .... 9.30 until 3 IIRC but on the flipside you can ski from 9 and watch the sunrise over the mountains which is apparently very nice.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hey, no-one will know for sure.
As with all lovers of the white fluffy stuff it's the debating and hoping, watching the web cams and generally crossing of fingers that is part of the fun before the season really starts.
Some years are good, some years are bad. I for one hope MY favourite resorts get loads of snow!
Skied Serfaus a few seasons ago during the week before Christmas. I'd booked it last minute because snow conditions were great. We got talking to a few regulars who skied at that time every year - they said the year before it was mostly bare wet grass not snow. "Make hay while the sun shines".
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
AndrewBailey, that sounds a good deal who is that with? I know its off topic but I can't ignore good deals
there is plenty of back up to make sure you can ski early December.
Only if the weather is cold enough. Dire early seasons may well be warm - far too warm to blow snow. Statements (usually from resorts rather than people who should know better ) that having snow cannons "guarantees" skiing to low levels are truly irritating.
Just look at the pistehors.com reports on 2006/7 season - there were high temperatures at various points in the season, with freezing levels correspondingly high.
Also, yet again, even if there are metres of snow, many resorts will not be fully open until the weekend before Christmas. Doesn't stop the TOs offering "bargain packages" though.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w, agree with your point re temperatures....just that I have not experienced those problems in Amade even when France had its problems in 2006/7....maybe it's the microclimate? When resorts open is no doubt governed by historic records and they organise staff based on this. Clearly they can't open before this, even when the snow comes early which is why the resorts you speak of don't open until just before Christmas. As I say, where I ski is geared up for early seasons, even if you must roll your eyes.
After all it is free
After all it is free
pam w wrote:
Only if the weather is cold enough. Dire early seasons may well be warm - far too warm to blow snow. Statements (usually from resorts rather than people who should know better ) that having snow cannons "guarantees" skiing to low levels are truly irritating.
Some alpine countries have statistically colder temperatures month by month throughout the winter in comparison with others which means the snow arrives earlier and has a lower tendancy to melt
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
yes yes yes. All I'm saying is that mega-millions of snow cannons are no use if the weather is warm. As it sometimes is in France, sometimes is in Austria, sometimes is in Italy. It will be warm in Austria next week - http://www.austriantimes.at/?id=17250&print=1
It's warm in France today - over 20 degrees at 1600m.
The OP asked whether it would be clear by mid November what the early season snow was going to be like.
Offer is unspecified accommodation and I don't know how well you know Hemsedal but it might be up a mountain side. We opted to pay (a lot) extra and book into their Alpine Lodge apartment which is right at the bottom of the slopes. The other apartments are between 100 and 250m away but have a lift to take you up the shallow slope. Some other apartments are up on the hill side and look rather nice.
The offer also only applies Sun-Fri 13-18/12 as it is family week. The weekends are supposed to be a bit more rowdy but I have not noticed much in the way of drunk Norwegians on the piste. In the bars, but not on the piste.
They have 10% off ski passes and ski rental if you book by the end of Oct.
You can extend your stay to Sun as we are doing as we don't know if we will be able to take the kids skiing next year. They also love Hemsedal.
The only thing I am worried about is snow cover. They have 20cm and the snow cannons are on but that doesn't mean the resort will be completely open but if prior years are a guide they will have had 50-70cm of snow by then.
As for DIY..... We went DIY for our first, second and third ski trips. Not bad for beginners. Mind you our first trip was in Romania, a close friend is a ski instructor, we all speak Romanian, we stayed in an in-laws house, we had our own car and we didn't really need a ski pass as we fell over all the time! Not really DIY I suppose....
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w wrote:
yes yes yes. All I'm saying is that mega-millions of snow cannons are no use if the weather is warm. As it sometimes is in France, sometimes is in Austria, sometimes is in Italy. It will be warm in Austria next week - http://www.austriantimes.at/?id=17250&print=1
It's warm in France today - over 20 degrees at 1600m.
The OP asked whether it would be clear by mid November what the early season snow was going to be like.
The answer is "no".
What is with all this Austria bashing
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thank you to all for your help and amusement !
Resorts under consideration provided they have snow) are:
Let Gets (as it is low and therefore less exposed to weather)
Ardent
Obergurgl
La Rosiere
Reberty
Saas Fee and maybe Selva
No country bias from me !
Looks like will have to wait till very near departure time to book unless unusual conditions prevail. Point taken re Easter -mainly a cost issue to going in December, but at the back of my mind the kids may really enjoy it....could go again then ???
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
MattWild, Book your flights now, pick the resort closer to the time. Not sure about your reference to Les Gets
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Exactly what we did. Took them to try for a couple of days and then ended up with the 6 year old skiing 14 days and the 3 year old for 4 days.
Only issue is my eldest is now as good as I am...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
pam w wrote:
Quote:
yes yes yes. All I'm saying is that mega-millions of snow cannons are no use if the weather is warm. As it sometimes is in France, sometimes is in Austria, sometimes is in Italy. It will be warm in Austria next week - http://www.austriantimes.at/?id=17250&print=1
It's warm in France today - over 20 degrees at 1600m.
The OP asked whether it would be clear by mid November what the early season snow was going to be like.
The answer is "no".
What is with all this Austria bashing
it's a quirky odd reading of my post quoted to see that as "Austria bashing". The only thing I'm bashing is the notion that you can be sure of Christmas snow cover in November.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
MattWild, think twice about Les Gets, I like the place but I was there few years ago and the TO bussed us up to Avoriaz because there was so little snow in Les Gets. This was in Jan.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
MattWild, You're most welcome, glad you enjoyed it and found it helpful!
pam w, Ok, but why did you post a two week old news article predicting snow melt in Austria
On the one occasion I did not go to one of the French Massifs at Easter, I got this Passo Tonale Easter 07, booked months in advance, so I just made the best of it. Not saying it cannot be like that in December either though.
pam w, Ok, but why did you post a two week old news article predicting snow melt in Austria
......and a 10 year old article that is negative towards Austria... Considering that there have been another 10 lifts or so built just in the Amadé region since I have been here in the last 4 years - I gotta feeling that the article might be a little statisticly challenged!
I gotta feeling I have had this conversation before....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
flangesax, and did you bother to notice that I also posted stuff about terrible early season conditions in France? I was trying to counter the suggestion - from some people - that to worry about the state of the snow in mid December was crazy. It isn't. These things go in cycles. Sometimes Austria has best early snow, sometimes the southern Alps in France do, sometimes Andorra does, sometimes the northern Alps do. Everywhere has bad years. I think my posts above were pretty even-handed, unlike some.
It makes perfect sense to book late for mid December - for anywhere. I recognise that is hardly music to the ears of people trying to sell accomodation, but it remains the case.
After all it is free
After all it is free
[quote="flangesax"]
Quote:
I gotta feeling I have had this conversation before....
Funny you should day that, some deja vu for me also here, for instance...... och I can't be a***d!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
MattWild, "Ardent"? Ardent is not a ski resort as far as I am aware. It's at best a hamlet. Even that's pushing it...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
Let Gets (as it is low and therefore less exposed to weather)
Ardent
Obergurgl
La Rosiere
Reberty
Saas Fee and maybe Selva
Based on my (limited) experience - I don't think you'd be taking much of a gamble booking early for Obergurgl ... in fact I'm considering booking a trip over Xmas there! I've not been, but isn't Saas Fee open 365 days of the year (thanks to it's glacier)? If I'm right, again you've got some guaranteed skiing whenever you book.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I'd agree that it's pretty safe (in terms of snow cover) to book a glacier resort - equally Tignes, Les Deux Alpes, etc. But if the weather turns out to be really cold and snowy all round - as it was last year - then frankly the last place I'd want to be is on a glacier with the wind howling all around - quite probably blowing away the fresh snow, not a tree in sight and freezing cold. Much nicer to be a gemutlich village. So if you absolutely HAVE to book then yes, book a high resort with a glacier. But if you don't, hope for something better and far more choice.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
under a new name wrote:
MattWild, "Ardent"? Ardent is not a ski resort as far as I am aware. It's at best a hamlet. Even that's pushing it...
having used this place to access the Portes du Soleil for the past 4 years, i can tell you that Ardent is not really a resort. There is 1 bar, 2 ski shops and you can buy lift passes there but i wouldnt go with a family, would simply get bored. Also it is at the head of the valley, with very high steep rocky walls around it and in jan feb, it hardly gets any sun hence it being very, very cold. Stay further down the valley in a place called Montriond of further still down in morzine, thats a proper resort, lotsof shops and busy. Ardent is a great lift to use though to access the PDS as you cut the crowds coming over from avoriaz. any more info just ask, cheers rick
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
MattWild, having skied La Rosiere at xmas a few years back, Mayrhofen a few years further back and last year in the Jungfrau region, I have only been disappointed once, and that was due to extremely warm weather and lack of new snow (we still skied lots!). I booked very early for all three, stuck my walking boots in just in case it was really bad. I took a risk and never regretted it.
The easter advice is excellent, I went back the Jungfrau (with a my school kids!) in April this year, they thought sunbathing and skiing/boarding were a good mix! I took them at easter knowing the risks, but also knowing that it was not going to be perilously cold.
My early season experiences did give me one extra piece of advice, find out how much of the resorts will actually be scheduled to be open when you plan to go. Many resorts 'save' their full opening to Xmas week when the crowds arrive, so the week before often has limited pistes, again this depends on the resort and snow conditions, but it is worth keeping an eye on.
Enjoy
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
This might give us a clue - Val Thorens today
sorry, but at risk of being called a miserable cow again, I don't think snow falling on 2 November, on ground which was basking in really warm sunshine 3 days ago, gives you much indication of what conditions will be like in mid December. In the very highest resorts, provided the weather stays cold from now on, it will help provide a good base. But in many lower resorts (like the one I was sunbathing in last week) it will probably all melt.
In the last few weeks the weather where I've been, at 1650m in the French Alps changed from - 6 degrees, and snow (two weeks ago) to 22 degrees and wall to wall sun (last week). It could well be warm again before long; the weather changes so fast.
Still, it's good to see some white bits on the webcams.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
pam w wrote:
Quote:
This might give us a clue - Val Thorens today
sorry, but at risk of being called a miserable cow again
No you are right. It snowed heavily this time last year, more than at the moment, and it all melted below 2200 meters. The first snows that lasted were from the second half of November.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pam w wrote:
Quote:
This might give us a clue - Val Thorens today
sorry, but at risk of being called a miserable cow again, I don't think snow falling on 2 November, on ground which was basking in really warm sunshine 3 days ago, gives you much indication of what conditions will be like in mid December. In the very highest resorts, provided the weather stays cold from now on, it will help provide a good base.
Doesn't Val THorens count as a high resort then Pam
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
MattWild wrote:
..... So question is when typically does the snow fall -will likely snow cover be clear mid November or will I need to fry my wife's nerves by waiting and booking (even) later....December ??
just in case people forgot the question
My rule of thumb
Any snow in any French/Italian resort that has already fallen below 2000m is highly likely to melt. Any snow in an Austrian resort that has already fallen below 1500m is highly likely to melt.
By mid November, any snow in any French/Italian resort that has already fallen above 2000m is highly likely not to melt. Any snow in an Austrian resort that has already fallen above 1500m is highly likely not to melt.
Of course, the snow fall and temperature after mid November will be a better indication (as temperature drops) of what the conditions will be like in December, but if a trip is to be booked by mid November with a degree of confidence (that the mountain will be white and not green) I would be looking at any French/Italian resort where most of the skiing is above 2000m and any Austrian resort where most of the skiing is above 1500 m and for Swiss resorts I would go for something in the middle
Just a small point, but glacier resorts have skiing at glacier levels and in most cases also have lower tree skiing normally leading down the valley to lower hamlets.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 3-11-09 12:01; edited 1 time in total
Doesn't Val THorens count as a high resort then Pam
Val Thorens always has snow for the start of the season, next please.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
if a trip is to be booked by mid November
that's a big "if". For mid December the only reason to book by mid November is sheer impatience. The risk is that if the snow is good then (using your rule of thumb) you've missed out on a whole range of fun possibilities by ruling out the many delightful areas of Austria or France where much of the skiing is below 1500m/2000m respectively.
The points made above about resort opening times are important too - not all resorts will be fully open in mid December but that's generally easily found out from the websites.
The Kitzsteinhorn glacier saw 50cm + fresh in the last 24 hours
Sölden looks a lot better than Obergurgl 78cm v 30cm at the moment although another ca 30 to 50cm is forecast for the high resorts this week
Anbody have a link to the current snow levels in Switzerland and France?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rayscoops, any chance you could use redfor the negative andgreenfor the positive?.... however for a colour blind person then it will all lookbrownanyhow.... just like the pistes if they get it muddled up!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
pam w wrote:
For mid December the only reason to book by mid November is sheer impatience.
Complete tosh. People may have all manner of good reasons for wanting to book by mid-November - it's completely up to them.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) that having snow cannons "guarantees" skiing to low levels are truly irritating.
