 Poster: A snowHead
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What's the best thing to do with the skis when doing this? I never feel I have 100% control over the skis. Certainly getting weight forward stops the skis from wobbling, but I always feel a little uncertain with having the skis running flat on their bottoms. A caught edge always seems a real danger. Obviously a series of nice carving turns is a good solution, but what about running both skis on their inside edges. It's a sort of snowplough feeling (no, I don't actually put the skis at an angle to each other) and doesn't seem that secure.
Thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In lessons I was taught too keep the skis flat on the bases so that you could feel the skis moving slightly relative to each other as their is no edge contact, ie; you don't have 100% control over the skis. I think its just a feeling you have to get used to. Remember recreational skis have a 2 degree bevel to the bases so you should be able to avoid catching an edge.
Skiing on an edge will slow you down marginally which defeats the point of schussing
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It came to me, when watching some extraordinary schuss positions over the last few days, that we should have a photo thread of some of the different efforts. I shall try to capture one or two over the next few days, to make a contribution.
James the Last, good question, I'll be interested to see answers from the experts.
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I don't think you ever have 100% control due to terrain, it about reaction to whatever happens... so experience wins, usually you can swap and maintain balance to 1 ski while recovering the other from crossing over or running away
both inside edges sounds dangerous, you never want your skis to cross and if you maintain both inside edges they will cross or make you do the splits
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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James the Last, put them on an edge. But not both inside edges - that sounds very bizarre.
rambotion, how will skiing on an edge slow you down when it results in less contact surface and therefore less friction?
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Lizzard, A well waxed base has a lower frictional coefficent than an edge and digs into the snow less. Contary to popular belief the apparent contact area of two surfaces has no effect on the overall frictioanl force except for in some cirumstances such as rubber, but probably not snow (I'm not 100% confident on this for snow). Either way it is definately faster to ski on the bases than the edges
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I reckon it would depend on how soft the snow is, for soft snow the drag on the skis would probably be proportional to the nominal contact area but for hard packed/icy slopes where no trace is left from the person schussing then the nominal contact area almost certainly has no effect on the drag on the skis.
When you're when you're on an edge you have a rough steel edge digging into the snow which will dissapate far more energy than a smooth waxed base gliding over it.
Test it out for yourself on a freshly waxed pair of skis next time you're out
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rambotion, I have - I find skiing on an edge faster. It also gives more control, though judging by a lot of what I've seen this week that's not a priority. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| I find skiing on an edge faster. |
If a ski is on its edge it will turn (however slightly) and will therefore not be as fast as a flat ski running in a straight line.
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Relax. Skis hip width apart, equal weight on both skis. Knees and ankles bent. Relax. Weight centred, arms forward. Relax. Allow your knees to absorb any bumps or irregularities.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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stewart woodward, would you recommend staying slightly on edge (both skis on the same edge that is - right or left) to reduce the risk of catching an edge, at the cost of a slight sacrifice of speed? I have the same worry as the OP about going fast (at least, what feels fast to me, which probably isn't very fast at all......) on completely flat skis.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There are plenty of flat paths in Les Arcs that require some sort of solution. As with those above I have decided that I am not 100% happy zazzing along on the ski bases due to the possibility of a caught edge. So, as advised here, when I raised the issue I now set the skis an a marginal edge and make the odd carving type action as I go along - it feels a whole lot more secure to be doing 'something' When I was with my instructor he also saw the paths as somewhere to practise alternate legs lefted off the ground and this also seems a good use of paths. On faster flatter sections I'm certainly on an edge though (and on two skis!) - it just feels easier.
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| Quote: |
When I was with my instructor he also saw the paths as somewhere to practise alternate legs lefted off the ground and this also seems a good use of paths.
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Yep, I'd agree with that - our nice long gentle blue run home is ideal for that. But when you really have to get some speed up to get across a long flat, or an uphill section, then a schuss is sometimes the only way - I've never been terribly keen on schussing (it's that female thing about always wanting to be in control, I suppose) so any tips as to how to make it a little safer (if a little slower) would be helpful.
Round here I don't need to do any heroic schussing, thank goodness, especially at the moment with such hard and fast snow.
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You know it makes sense.
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Running both skis on the inside edges was suggested by my instructor (who was a pretty whizz skier with a little free riding hobby and was not trying to grannify (no offence, pam w, ) me).
Some females, BTW, pam w, love being out of control. And when they're just beginning, they carry on going faster and faster until they end up in a heap...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Relax. Skis hip width apart, equal weight on both skis. Knees and ankles bent. Relax. Weight centred, arms forward. Relax. Allow your knees to absorb any bumps or irregularities. |
In that 'relaxed' position I find that I am holding a slight snowplough, which slows me down and I find other skiers sliding past, which is particularly noticeable on flatter runs.
I find I need to pull in the tails in order to get a flat ski
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Some females, BTW, pam w, love being out of control
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that's what they like you to think, James the Last 
codyaitch, my OH found that - it was very evident going up behind him on a draglift, too; slight snowplough. He got "balanced" by CEM and Andi McCann and it make a big difference. ,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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James the Last, I most often tip just slightly so I am on only two edges, not four. Not enough to really arc much, but enough to avoid the edge catch.
Of course, I don't often schuss in the traditional sense. I tend to do more drills and exercises on terrain I used to schuss, including playing with RR tracks, arcing, and other means of riding the edges, playing with arc shape, and enjoying the experience...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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options:
- longer skis with less sidecut
- base bevel the front of the skis more
- maintain a minimum edge angle on both skis, to keep them stable through long radius carved turns.
- be sure you're center balanced
- get friendly with the float
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good body position is important and it is essential to be well balanced on a flat high speed ski. a few tips to think about is when in a tuck position is to have your elbows ahead of your knees and ski poles parallel to the ground with a rounded back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| good body position is important and it is essential to be well balanced on a flat high speed ski. a few tips to think about is when in a tuck position is to have your elbows ahead of your knees and ski poles parallel to the ground with a rounded back. |
Schussing doesn't have to be tucking though, just going in a straight line - but as you say good balanced body position is still essential.
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I tend to keep my skis flat but edge my outside ski slightly when making very minor turns. If I have enough speed and need to make a longer gradual turn I tend to edge both skis slightly. I always tuck in and put my poles under my arms. Normally, I keep the handles of my poles away from my chest and not right next to it.
I don't know if this is the correct method, this is just self taught, watching other people, etc. If I'm doing something wrong please point it out!
I'll post a pic or two tonight, would welcome any feedback.
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I usually tend to edge just a fraction. I'm not in a race, nor is the piste likely to be arrow straight and completely free of fluff/people. Sure a pure flat ski may technically be faster than an edged one, but if a foot/leg is wobbly in a flat ski schuss then you're probably tempted to do some kind of speed control manoeuvre (snowplough, skid, whatever) to try to control the situation, and in my case a slightly edged ski will therefore be faster.
Only my right foot that wobbles. I assume this is because the left leg is so used to being the one balanced upon, and the right that does things, that the joints are looser on the right, and when in a schuss, more weight goes on the left.
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| Quote: |
I don't often schuss in the traditional sense
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I only do it to avoid walking up a hill or across a long flat. Can't see any point otherwise - why waste all that uplift?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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c0Ka|Ne, at Hemel, you seemed to be schussing a lot, with both poles tucked under one arm for some reason. Care to explain? 
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Justing putting some aerodynamic theories to the test 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I almost never schuss anywhere. It's perfectly possible to ski at high speed without tucking - it's just so undignified. Only 2 kinds of skiers tuck - racers and beginners.
But if you're determined to do it, try to get your elbows against your knee caps, push your fists a good bit further forward, get your thighs parallel to the snow and your head a lot lower
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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c0Ka|Ne, I can only see one... the other is out of shot. Is that helpful? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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oooooof, running out of ribs here 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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c0Ka|Ne, suggest straighter legs and poles more vertical
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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c0Ka|Ne, that's a shocking waste of a very good helmet
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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c0Ka|Ne, Is that puff of snow at a strategic angle behind you relevant at all?
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Arno, that's not kind.
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| James the Last wrote: |
Some females love being out of control. (snip), they carry on going faster and faster until they end up in a heap... |
Hmm, sounds exactly like 7 year old Chloe's approach! Though the slope at Tamworth fridge isn't long or steep enough to hit the landing in a heap speed!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hurtle, interesting to re-read that thread. As I said there, easiski taught me how to schuss, so I don't make some of the most obvious mistakes.
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Only 2 kinds of skiers tuck - racers and beginners.
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I don't agree. It definitely makes a difference - you only have to stand up to notice how much slower you go immediately (and how much better your quads feel )
If it didn't make any difference, why on earth would racers bother?
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FAQ
