 Poster: A snowHead
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Having always borrowed transceivers in the past I've decided it's time to buy my own, any thoughts on the best of what's currently available? Also any UK based training anyone can point me towards? All input appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nick Dawes, Buy a BCA Tracker .... then make sure your ski buddy has the best of what's currently available, and knows how to use it 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Mammut Pulse. Don't know about formal training but occasionally groups of snowHeads have got together in the UK to practise using their transceivers. Might be worth posting a thread to see if there's any interest.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nick Dawes, Transceiver - my next one will be a Pulse. I have a Mammut Barryvox which I like and had an Ortovox x1 which I hated.
Training: Get together with a mate with one and bury one in the frozen foods section of tescos. Don't forget your probe and shovel 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Another vote for Mammut Pulse. Shame it's so expensive though, but from what I've seen of it is worth it and is what I will be upgrading to as soon as I can.
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Another vote on the Pulse. I found it much easier to use than the Tracker, especially in the final stages of the search. I would also be inclined to let the Tracker 2 have a year in the real world before buying one just to make sure that other people find out whether or not it has anything wrong with it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I completely agree with gorilla - on all points.
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S1 will be my replacement purhase
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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tracker for me, the new one looks great but the standard(old) one is just fine and easy to use...... i am still not convinced by the pulse....something which wants to tell me if my buddy is alive or dead just seems a bit wrong!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ortovox D3 for me. Very simple to use.
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| CEM wrote: |
| tracker for me, the new one looks great but the standard(old) one is just fine and easy to use...... i am still not convinced by the pulse....something which wants to tell me if my buddy is alive or dead just seems a bit wrong!!! |
...... I can see the point of this for multiple burials.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have a Tracker, but were I buying now, I would by a Pulse. In an multiple burial exercise, I struggled with a Tracker - a mate with a Pulse went straight to each burial virtually instantly. I think the exercise may have been set up specifically to fool the Tracker, though, since in other exercises it's been fine. Even so, the Pulse clearly has some very good technology in its case, and seems to be the leader. Of course, I hope never to have to prove the point.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| CEM wrote: |
| tracker for me, the new one looks great but the standard(old) one is just fine and easy to use...... i am still not convinced by the pulse....something which wants to tell me if my buddy is alive or dead just seems a bit wrong!!! |
CEM the biggest advantage of the Pulse is the final phase searching, which is way quicker than the Tracker.
As mentioned above, though, buy a Tracker and a Pulse. Wear the Tracker, give the Pulse to your mate.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Avoid Orthovox X1 IME.
I've used a Tracker and found it really easy & from what Pulse owners say it seems even better
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, Whats wrong with them then? I have them for me and my children
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Fogliettaz, the X1 acquired a bit of a bad rep. pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Gear/Ortovox-X1 gives some indication as to why that was. I have no personal experience of it but my view of the Patroller has been coloured by watching one of my skiing partners have repeated difficulty with the analogue/digital switchover point. Typically he would acquire the signal early, jog up the flux line to about 10/15m from target and then get lost as the unit flipped from one mode to the next. He gets to ski first.
altis, has a good point re range. The advertised range of the Pulse is in the region of 60m. I assume this means 60m down the flux line as it does not provide a range of 60m in real world conditions. The real range (straight line rather than down the flux line) is about 20m to 25m, although I understand it is much greater if you switch it into analogue mode. I would point out I could not manage a decent time with a pure analogue beacon even with the BMG's training director prodding me and hence this mode goes unused. I should probably have a bash with it this season.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The X1 (and to lesser extent the tracker / M2) are excellent for single victim burials.
They automatically isolate the strongest single and home in directly on it.
However if there are multiple burials then all of these beacons can become confused by multiple signals.
The specific issue with the X1 is that it automatically switches between digital and analogue mode - which can be confusing if you dont know exactly what is going on.
Modern beacons with multiple attenna's and improved signal processing (such as the S1 / Mamut Pulse / Pieps DSP) seem to cope better with multiple burials scenarios. However if your practising safe travel then mutliples should only account for a very very small percentage of burials.
Long range shouldnt be the deciding factor - a methodical & sensibly spaced search pattern for the intial search is more important.
One thing to remember - if skiing in a group and there is an incident then everyone in the group has to remember to switch to search mode straight away before commencing rescue!
If I was buying a new beacon then it would the Pulse - but I would disable the lifesigns feature, as I dont trust it.
But it does seem to cope with multiple burials better than a Tracker.
This www site has some useful techy info.
http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Long range shouldnt be the deciding factor - a methodical & sensibly spaced search pattern for the intial search is more important. |
Not sure I agree with this. Particularly if you are searching on your own, surely it's better to have a signal and be following the fulx line, rather than zig-zagging back and forth across the path of the slide?
Also worth considering the range of the transmission as well as reception. Some good stuff in this article and elsewhere on the site (even if some of it is a little out of date now):
http://www.facewest.co.uk/Transceiver-Review-2007.html
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Obviously a long range is nice to have - but if your using a methodical search pattern then you should be able to pick up the initial signal very quickly. This section of the search shouldnt take very long.
The tracker, for example, has one of the shortest ranges on the market. Way shorter range than an X1 or old F1 for example. However once the tracker (eventually) picks up that signal it takes you straight there using the simple indicator arrows. An X1 or F1 would pick up the intial signal earlier - but could take longer in the second detailled part of the search.
Reason for this is that the Tracker always has multiple attennas enabled. This means the interface can always point in a specific direction - so is easy and intuitive to use. However always having more than one attenna enabled reduces the ability to pick up a transmitting signal at longer range - when the signal is weak.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Haggis_Trap, i am obviously a freak because I find my F1 as easy to use as a Tracker (and, as you say, the extra range is nice to have)
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Many guides still use the original analogue F1.
In well trained hands its, apprently, just as quick as modern beacons - especially for multiple burial scenarios.
Though 1st gen digital beacons (X1, M2, Tracker) are much more intuitive and easier to use for people who dont practise so much. And work really quickly for single burial scenarios.
The 2nd gen digital beacons (S1, Pulse, Pieps) seem to cope better with multiple burials.
Though the extra features mean they can be a little more complicated to use...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I did a mountain safety course last year which included lots of simulated searches for one or two victims, all of which were timed. To pass the course we had to locate one victim within 4 minutes. There were 12 of us on the course with a variety of transceivers, from the older analogue beacons to the newer three-antennae models like the Pulse and the Ortovox S1. All of us on the course were inexperienced users of transceivers, most of us having just a little bit of experience in an avalanche park but nothing beyond that. It was very noticeable that anyone with a Pulse or an S1 were significantly quicker at locating single and double burials (the best time I did with my Pulse was 42 seconds from starting to the first successful probe). Anyone with an analogue beacon was noticeably slower, in both primary and fine search modes. We also did a couple of range tests and there didn't seem to be any significant difference in receive or transmit capabilities, with the exception of one of the M2s being used which might well have been faulty.
I've had the Pulse for two season and try to get in to the avalanche park every second or third trip so I'm by no means an experienced user of it, but even so I don't find it too complicated to use. One of the features I did like was the group check, which made ensuring everyone is transmitting slightly slicker than with the other transceivers that were being used.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When I tried a borrowed X1 in a "contest" I was very quick to the site and then soon lost the plot when it was flipping during bracketting. I think I should have totally tuned out the distance indicator but like an idiot in the heat of the moment (and not having used it before) I had no idea what was going on.
Incidentally at a snowheads trial I saw Eric Kendall (the fall-line backcountry writer) beat everyone to both of 2 burials with an F1.
I like my F1 as well although as always I could use more practice & wouldn't want to put it in the hands of a novice..
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Last season my Pieps DSP was taken from my check in bag in Geneva. Maybe I was naive but I'll be carrying my future transciever in my carry on. Beware!
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You know it makes sense.
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Bought Pulse tonight from Facewest £275. As I bought pack, probe, and shovel they knocked 10% of the total and I get 10% of this off my next purchase. As I'll need skins soon it will come in handy. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Haggis_Trap,
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The tracker, for example, has one of the shortest ranges on the market. Way shorter range than an X1 or old F1 for example.
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This is the reported data, however, we found little difference in picking up the initial signal in practise with everything being below the quoted range. (Apart from when the buried transceiver was turned off). In the same tests the pulse was much quicker at the final part of the search when compared to the tracker and patroller although this may be less of an issue when using a probe.
I have a tracker and really wouldn't want to use it in a multiple burial situation.
Slightly off topic is there any data on the average time taken to extract multiple buried bodies? I think two or three people would struggle to find and dig out two people in less than 15 min. I'm slightly alarmed that I've only just had this thought.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Isn't that kind of the point of the pulse? You use it to give you an idea of who is most likely to survive and go for them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| el nombre wrote: |
| Isn't that kind of the point of the pulse? You use it to give you an idea of who is most likely to survive and go for them. |
Only if everyone in your group is using a Pulse, otherwise it's irrelevant.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| Isn't that kind of the point of the pulse? You use it to give you an idea of who is most likely to survive and go for them. |
The Pulse is a great beacon - perhaps the best on market... (though I havent used S1)
However its generally recommended to disable the life signs feature.
Primarily because you should be using a visual search to decide who to search for first!
An initial 20 seconds spent scanning the site might give critical visual clues - such as a glove sticking out the snow. And would much more effective than f--king about with a beacon trying to guess whose heart is still beating 
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| struggle to find and dig out two people in less than 15 min |
Correct. Digging out 1 person within the critical 15 minute is tough enough...
Not something I ever want to have to do. Locating and digging out 2 separate burials could be near impossible I reckon.
Luckily multiple burial scenarios are quite rare.
With safe travel procedures they can almost always be avoided.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 19-10-09 16:08; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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^ yup - it can be tough. especially when skiing with new people.
Though clear and simple communication makes a huge difference to group safety.
First skier down should explain where they plan to ski. And also what the signal for the next skier to follow is.
If its done efficiently then it shouldn't slow the group down - only about 10-20% of your day is spent actually going downhill!
Taking turns to rotate the lead skier means everyone gets a chance at first tracks...
And also greatly reduces the chances of the dreaded multiple burial scenario...
The strongest skier shouldnt always go first - its not a race 
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Should have mentioned earlier. One reason I bought from Facewest they offer upgrades on the transciever software as a free service.
I had seen an upgrade for the Pulse at around $29 somewhere else (cant remember where).
So thought it was a nice touch on the service front.
It does look like the Pulse has been repriced to go head to head with the Tracker 2 as there are a number of places selling it at £275 (Tracker 2 £285).
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S1. Life is worth it.
(I currently have a Barryvox and don't intend to replace it until 2012ish. By then the S1 will have been replaced I suspect but if I lost / broke mine now that's what I would buy, no question.)
If you can't afford the S1 then get an F1, EVERYTHING else is only half as good.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I spent some time looking at and trying some of the newer multisearch bleeps at the show. Must admit, a bit underwhelmed.
It seems to me that a decent bleep that is simple to use is the way to go...or rather will survive a little while yet before replacing.
It needs a fool-proof on/off config, like the M2, audible and visual indicators like the BTS ..altho not sure the DTS 2 is worth the upgrade if you already have a Tracker. What you don't want, IMV..is a long boot, and then a switch into the right config mode...
It is either transmitting or searching and the simplest way to get to those 2 places sounds good to me.
When searching, you find the nearest body and mark it and hopefully you aren't looking at multiple buries. But too much buttom pressing in a manic mode isn't a good idea IMV..
The overwhelming by a country mile conclusion from this little demo was to practise and know how to use what you have...
I have binned my plans to upgrade as a result
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i have an s1 and i dont know how anyone can be confused by it, it's like the oldest mobile phone in menu terms has about 9 different icons to learn and 2 buttons, if you see someone get run over do you look for the nearest telephone box incase you forget how to work your mobile in times of panic. Goes without saying knowing how to use your device is the most important part, but i'm not buying the difficulty level given to newer ones.
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FAQ
