 Poster: A snowHead
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bertie bassett,
The visitor can come from inside the valley like BSM or outside the valley from Albertville. Moutiers is just a reference point.
rob@rar,
Like I said before chalet owners would know the best way to get around a resort. Last time I skied Courchevel I parked at 1300 Le Praz but drove to Val Thoren when to explore Orelle
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| saikee wrote: |
rob@rar,
Like I said before chalet owners would know the best way to get around a resort. |
I've never owned property in Courchevel, mores the pity. Only ever visited there one week at a time, but enough visits to get to know the place a little bit.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Never had a noticeable problem in France the last few years, were a few bottlenecks in villages at Ski School meet time but easily avoided.
At Easter there was a queue forming in Vallandry each morning waiting for the lift to open and a couple of lads were turning up each day and ducking under the ropes to jump the queue. The last day I "accidentally" was standing by said ropes and managed to stop them 
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| Boris wrote: |
Never had a noticeable problem in France the last few years, were a few bottlenecks in villages at Ski School meet time but easily avoided.
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Maybe that's the reason I don't tend to get hampered by queues. If there's a queue I just go another way - ski further down or get a different lift and, as you say, if you see a ski school make sure you're damn well ahead of them. I know it's not so easy if you're at the bottom lift or it's the last lift home, but I'd do almost anything to avoid queuing.
Actually that's one of the things I like that I've heard about American lifts - the single person line. Bring that to Europe!
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One of the advantages of skiing in a large resort year after year is the knowledge gained of the lift system and alternative routes to avoid the delays, the same applies to the access routes by road 
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andyph, There are single person lines some places but not nearly enough. Also in France in particular there seems no point in installing 6 packs as even when a queue is utter chaos , people simply will not fill up chairs & look at you like something their frou-frou little dog has deposited mid pavement if you dare to get on chair with them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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andyph, My kids are now better than me at sliding through the queue, "see you at the top Daddy" where we will wait for you to get off the lift and then ski away as fast as poss 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| andyph, There are single person lines some places but not nearly enough. Also in France in particular there seems no point in installing 6 packs as even when a queue is utter chaos , people simply will not fill up chairs & look at you like something their frou-frou little dog has deposited mid pavement if you dare to get on chair with them. |
that was nearly my biggest peeve from last season - actually not quite...
the biggest was the stupid sodding english woman on the Pre st. esprit lift (3 seater) on a relatively quiet luncthime in Les Arcs who couldn't understand why there was a line of young kids standing one behind another in a line - She and her two thicko mates wanted them to go first so she and her middle aged buddies could ride together, when I suggested that they split up to take the kids up one by one and help the instructor get the class up the hill she replied something along the lines of "how vary dare you"... I think my reply included the term ignorant punter in it somewhere.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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bertie bassett,
I just wonder if asking other skiers to take care of the kids, say from a ski school, is a widespread practice outside France? Don't remember seeing such thing in Italy, Switzerland or Austria. There are also kids learning to ski in those countries but they seem to go to small resorts not normally visited by overseas skiers.
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You know it makes sense.
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saikee, I experienced it in Val di Fassa, when an instructor asked me to look after one kid while he took the other he had with him on the next chair ( a 2 man chair in the Cattinaccio area).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We have skied in Obergurgl over the New Years holiday and have never experienced lift queues 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| saikee wrote: |
bertie bassett,
I just wonder if asking other skiers to take care of the kids, say from a ski school, is a widespread practice outside France? Don't remember seeing such thing in Italy, Switzerland or Austria. There are also kids learning to ski in those countries but they seem to go to small resorts not normally visited by overseas skiers. |
Every year without fail in Zell am See, probably because I have got to know a few instuctors now and I suppose they will be more likely to ask someone they know?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I often take ski school kids (yes, France) but I do think people should feel free to refuse. Most of the kids are OK but you can't tell in advance, and for beginners, or those v nervous of chairlifts, having to help a worried and very wobbly child off a chairlift can be difficult. If I sit next to one I try to unload my poles on someone else so I've two hands to use - and have sometimes had quite a difficult time getting some rather over solid 6 year old onto the snow with both skis heading in roughly the same direction. One friend of mine had a stroppy little madam try to slide herself off the chair, under the bar - disaster averted only by her hanging on to the child's hood until the lifties came and got her down, two of them at full stretch.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think there is often an assumption that everyone is happy to take ski school kids. I don't mind now but certainly did a few years ago. On my second trip, and finding getting off chairs the most challenging part of my skiing, I had to accompany an absolutely terrified (to the point that he only opened his eyes enough to let the tears out) 12 year old boy. While it made me concentrate on trying to calm him, inside I was a quivering wreck at this seemingly huge responsibility that I had been landed with.
Last year in La Thuile I had a tiny little French boy beside me on an old style lift where the bar appeared to be of no use at all and the seat was shallow. He was a lovely little thing and he chattered to me all the way up while I passed my poles to my eldest and held on to him very firmly with both hands 
Not a time to be worrying about the usual child protection issues.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've taken kids up in France, Austria & Canada. They just seem to wriggle so much!
Queues? You get them most places, no? If you're at the wrong place at the wrong time. A couple of places in Kitzbuhel you can get landed with a mass of people if you're not careful. And I remember the horrors of La Plagne on a snowy day when there were only a few lifts open.
And even in Canada - the main lifts out of Sun Peaks can get really busy. It's not just a European thing.
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I've taken kids up in Canada - I keep a hand hovering behind their necks in case I need to grap a strap to stop the little blighter plungeing to his death.
I think it's easier to avoid the queues when you know the resort well, plus newbies and groups "tend" to hang around in the vicinity of the lodges - the higher up the hill you go the fewer of them.
My pet peeve I suppose is groups of people waiting for a straggler who totally block the entrance to the queue - so you can't even join the damned queue because Todd is like totally tubular. Or something. I don't speak snowboard.
If you want to avoid queues, go to North America and enter the "singles line".
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saikee, widespread in the US and Canada - but there is a much more friendly culture on lifts there. You can sit down on a chair next to some grungy spotty snowboarding teenager listening to thrash metal and they will usually stop the music, ask politely where you are from, what you have been skiing etc etc.
And yes - it can get busy anywhere. Some places are worse though. In NA we will usually ski the singles line if a lift is totally slammed. And at least you will get 100% chair usage.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| And yes - it can get busy anywhere. Some places are worse though. In NA we will usually ski the singles line if a lift is totally slammed. And at least you will get 100% chair usage. |
Absolutely! That's what gets me - when there's a big queue yet chairs go up half empty  They are MUCH better at sorting this out in Canada - even when there's not a liftie there to direct the traffic people just know how to fill up the chairs, especially when there are a couple of queues converging on the one lift
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As cathy, says they are much better at sorting lift queues out in Canada, and in our (limited to the East Coast in recent years) experience in the States - there seems no pushing and jostling because everyone knows that they will get there in the quickest and most efficient way - and generally the lifties are cheerful too! I think it was in Stowe that at the lift queues on some of those extremely cold days there were lifties/resort hosts with little disposable cups of something hot - two or three sips of that, two or three shuffles forward and there was a bin to put the cup in.
Lou, mentions child protection issues - and I have had to drill into my old man that when he has scooped up a pretty little thing to sit with us on the lift he should not then ask her/him where they are staying.... he thinks he is being friendly, I tell him it can be misinterpreted. Most of the times when I have worried about how the miniscule skier will cope with getting off at the top they just sail off.
I do think that it is a bit off that sometimes if you take small children up, sometimes for a large family to help out, that you don't even get a nod of the head in acknowledgement.
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Best of all is a group of 4-5 claiming a busy chair to themselves and spreading out... only to have me barge in to a middle seat. Some of the looks I've had, like "how could you be so rude to sit in the middle of our group!" (only in France and only with mostly Brits in that group). Of course the 1-2 spaces originally at the edges were people holding back to sit together.
As for accompanying ski school kids... I just avoid being that random adult, unless it's busy and I know that lift has a child-safe anti-slide-through thingy fitted.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I always take kids up if asked... but they can scare the crap out of you as they look like they can slip under the bar...
But they are pretty hardy...you just have to have one hand free to grab them and kick them off....
and they just stare at you from under their big goggles and huge helmet.. and expressionless faces..
then I know they are ok.. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Go to an area with several small resorts. If you have a car you can do a different one each day.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 6-10-09 11:22; edited 1 time in total
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| pam w wrote: |
| I often take ski school kids (yes, France) but I do think people should feel free to refuse. Most of the kids are OK but you can't tell in advance, and for beginners, or those v nervous of chairlifts, having to help a worried and very wobbly child off a chairlift can be difficult. If I sit next to one I try to unload my poles on someone else so I've two hands to use - and have sometimes had quite a difficult time getting some rather over solid 6 year old onto the snow with both skis heading in roughly the same direction. One friend of mine had a stroppy little madam try to slide herself off the chair, under the bar - disaster averted only by her hanging on to the child's hood until the lifties came and got her down, two of them at full stretch. |
But if there in lessons and lined up on one side then in my experience that's so the liftie at the top can lift them off and help them on the way. I see my job as to open/close the bar at the relevant part, and encourage the kid to sit still on the lift. I do always keep a hand-free next to them (poles in the other hand) so at least I stand some chance of grabbing them if they start to slide - and yes having seen a kid fall from another chair (whilst I was on the piste) I know it's possible - although a lot of the newer lifts now seem to have at least one seat with an anti kid-slide fitting.
I remember I had some mates out last season and on our 2nd lift of their holiday there was a ski-school group patiently waiting in the queue and pretty empty slopes - so we split up and went up one by one to help get the kids to the top. I was keen to point out some parts of the resort from that lift so as to help my mates orientation. Unless you are completely terrified of lifts or hopeless at getting on/off then I don't see why you'd refuse to ride up with a kid - strikes me as a little anti-social.
Pamski Sorry but lets not let the UK's national paranoia seep across into our favourite winter activities - I think it's great to chat to kids on the lifts - helps them take their minds off the process or looking down too much. Typically my french is good enough for a 6 year old, although I need to remember to say 'tu' all the time.
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You know it makes sense.
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Not much good for this season (dammed olympics will result in awful queues!) But on my season I found Whistler amazing for lack of queues, on week days you rarely had to queue at all once you had got up the mountain in the morning (and even queue was only waiting for first lift, turning up half an hour after opening we would typically walk straight on (that was going up from Creekside)
Queues were a lot worse on the weekends (and horrid through the easter holls).
The other advantage of Canadian resorts is that people actually queue properly (and those who try the typical french style barge past to the front usually get a telling off!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've been asked to take kids up just about everywhere we've been (especially in Austria), which seemed a little odd at first when you look at the UK perspective of three 40-something men on their own being asked to look after kids of 5-8 on the lift, but then of course you are visible from every direction, and have someone behind you watching the whole time, so the risk is low.
I'm happy to do it, but as others have said, I do make sure I have a free hand on their side just in case they slip out... When the kid is small enough that the chair is likely to smack them in the back of the head as they get on, it's more difficult as you have to lift them up and onto the chair unless there's a helpful liftie around.
Most of the main Austrian resorts now seem to have singles queues, which work well, and it is through these that the kids get delivered - free kid with every chair.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Possibly not the easiest solution, but my solution to taking other peoples kids is to have my own with me
If I end up with a strange kid, I always sit with my poles across me and child to act as a further barrier.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the_fatadder, not sure i agree on the Olympics/Whistler thing
The place is going to be stuffed with competitors, IOC people, journalists, hangers on etc etc. I can see Blackcomb being pretty quiet while all those people will be centred around the race course and other events. Here's hoping anyway cos I'll be there!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In my experience, random ski-school kids are less of a problem on lifts than random beginner adults. At least you can usually physically lift a kiddie up and out of the way with little effort. One of our adult female friends struggled for a long time with the concept of standing up to get off the chair and seemed to take out anyone unfortunate enough to sit next to her.
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I've seen lifties in L2A directing traffic to ensure utilisation but still the combination of Brit, French & Italian punters meant that they spent more time yelling than successfully filling chairs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bertie bassett, I could not agree more - chat away to them about all and sundry - but just not asking where they are staying. Natural thing to do on a lift I know with adults, teens etc, being friendly, where are you staying, can we help at all, do you know your way round - it was just that we were on a chair with a little thing a couple of years ago, talking away - she was English - till he asked where are you staying, and the face closed, obviously trained by parents not to say where she lived!
andyph, we have a friend who comes to stay every other year or so and she struggles to get the standing up bit right - she tends to stand up much too soon in her anxiety to get off and usually takes out whoever happens to be beside her. After a few days we seem to get it sussed, and then she goes away for couple of years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Pamski wrote: |
| andyph, we have a friend who comes to stay every other year or so and she struggles to get the standing up bit right - she tends to stand up much too soon in her anxiety to get off and usually takes out whoever happens to be beside her. After a few days we seem to get it sussed, and then she goes away for couple of years. |
To "cure" our friend, I gave her some standing up lessons in the chalet. After a few glasses of wine, naturally, we'd sit on the sofa (in ski boots if required to get the atmos just right) and count 1-2-3-stand up! And it turned out she could do it. 
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Arno, hmmm. was at VD in '92 when they had the Olympics..we went a week early. The place was full of technicians but the Belverde CC was closed to non-competitors. Now VD had enough alternative lifts at that time so it wasn't that big a deal getting out of the village in the morning... I guess it depends hiow many altenatives there are..
Good things... village packed with non-skiers..bad thing is they are likey to take out the best lift completely, IME
I would avoid events like that like the plague now... but then I am not a big fan of the drone zone anyway... YKWIM.. 
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andyph, good idea! Our friend was worried that if she fell over, not just off the lift, she was struggling to get up - so after skiing the first day we found her and another friend out on a slopey bit of our garden, in all their kit and skis, falling over in the snow and then practising till they could get up easily, then practising till they could get up elegantly.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I like the cute ski school kids. Last season in Courmayeur, I went on a 2-person chairlift with this adorable little Italian girl from Turin. She was 5 and didn't speak any English so I had to practice my pidgeon Italian. It was quite an old-fashioned lift and I wedged my ski poles across the seat for her to hold on to and to stop her slipping under the bar. At the top, there was no liftie about so I had to lift her off the seat as her skis were a good foot from the ground. She then whizzed off to join her buddies.
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JT, AIUI all the racing is on Whistler mountain which will hopefully leave Blackcomb open and that's probably my preferred mountain of the two
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FAQ
) I try to slide through lift queues like a knife through hot butter. Everyone else (well the English anyway) are standing around waiting for little Jemima/Toby or one of their chums to catch up and stand in a nice straight line or whatever... anyway, if there's an empty seat, I'm in it. 
