 Poster: A snowHead
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As a teacher I've seen brochure prices for this coming season and next year and the prices are astronomical!! With the 'rarely cover' policy coming into schools many schools are going to struggle to take trips during term time without hiking the costs to incorporate supply cover. If anyone has kids going on a trip or kids that have been invited on a trip I'd be interested to know the cost and location etc.
Can we avoid turning it into 'lets let slag off teachers for getting a free holiday' thread. Sure there are lots of parents who would like this info too in order to see if their school's trip is value or money.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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garethjomo, have you looked at IBT travel or Interski both specialise in school skiing and tend to get forgotten in favour of the bigger operators...the euro rate is hammering the whole travel sector so priced have gone up a good bit
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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garethjomo, I used Interski to run a couple of ski trips. They were really good and competitively priced. We used to go the week before half term. Unfortunately we also had to change from running the trip a week before half term in Feb, to half term in Feb. The price to Students shot up to around 850 quid. Demand went from 30 students the previous year, to only 1 positive response. As a result, no more ski trips.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well i book ours all direct so it undercuts all the tour operators anyway by huge amounts. We also go during half term. I'm just interested because the prices I've seen from tour operators seem crazy!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There are lots of companies specialising in Skiing trips for schools. Most work on a all inclusive basis including travel (usually by coach), hotel, food, ski & boot hire, lift pass, etc etc. Its a very competitive market place so shopping around can really pay dividends. As CEM said..... the smaller companies tend to be better and cheaper than the big tour operators......
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We have been contacted by a number of schools after they booked with another company (now gone bust). You know the one I’m on about.
Not touting for business as we ain’t in the school market
Have noticed one major thing about school, groups - sorry to have to say this as we are a TO but some school group operators seem to take the p!55 with prices and give "very" low standards. Of course I can't speak about all school group operators, sure there are some good ones but from the discussions I have had with teachers who are trying to book for next half term, sorry to have to say this but some teachers are just gullible.
I have a message for all parents and teachers who may read this (again I will emphasize that we are NOT in the school market), from a TO point of view you are seen "by some" as an easy target.
Come on guy and gals (teachers in charge of booking school groups) the kids and parents are trusting you to sort this out. My god, we put people at half term in twin ensuits room in 3* hotels (with flight not coach and everything else thrown in) for less that you are paying for each kid in a 6 kid per room deal on a bus for 24hrs each way.
Ask your self this –
Has your school been with the same company for more than the last 3 years. Thought so (most of em do) yada yada but they give us a good service, they are competitive, yada yada.
My advice - use your buying power to get a better deal.
Here endith the lesson according to me.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 22-09-09 22:53; edited 1 time in total
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| Wayne wrote: |
| My god, we put people at half term in twin ensuits room in 3* hotels (with flight not coach and everything else thrown in) for less that you are paying for each kid in a 6 kid per room deal on a bus for 24hrs each way. |
Interesting - however most of the kids that I've been on trips with, fight over being in the bigger rooms as they perceive that they will have more fun in a dorm.
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Elizabeth B,
I didn't know that (kids are strange beasts)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Interesting - however most of the kids that I've been on trips with, fight over being in the bigger rooms as they perceive that they will have more fun in a dorm.
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Thats certainly the case on our trips too!! Not one kid wants to be in a room of two!!!
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| garethjomo wrote: |
| Thats certainly the case on our trips too!! Not one kid wants to be in a room of two!!! |
OK, maybe I used a bad example (the twin room thing). The point is that many schools are stopping running ski trips due to escalating costs, but with the buying power that large groups have, there is no reason to pay these daft prices.
If you want to put kids onto a bus for 24hrs and then into 4/5/6 bed rooms, fine, but you should be paying the going rate for a bus and 4/5/6 bed rooms; from what I’ve seen most schools don’t, they over-pay.
Of course with schools they is a high percentage of adults paying a reduced rate (or nowt) for the trip that needs to be costed in, but “some” TO’s are still taking the micky with the prices.
I "know" that there are many people on this site with an in depth knowledge of almost every ski area in the world. There are many people here who will gladly help you to find a location that is ideal for the children in your group and also advise you of the TO’s that run trips to specific areas.
| garethjomo wrote: |
| Well i book ours all direct so it undercuts all the tour operators anyway by huge amounts. We also go during half term. I'm just interested because the prices I've seen from tour operators seem crazy!! |
Not many schools will not run DIY trips for very good reasons – legal problems, lack of ATOL protection, no resort staff, teachers have enough to do without the extra burden of becoming an Ad Hoc TO, it’s almost always cheaper to use a TO than to run a DIY trip, TO’s have the resources available if things go wrong, etc, etc, etc. So school groups will always (well almost always) use a TO.
So, with this in mind, shop around and, most importantly, don’t use the same company year and after year because it’s easy. OK if after you have shopped around you find that the company you went with last year really is the best option, then use them, but take a leaf from your own book and do your home-work 1st
Top-Tip.
If you see a website that makes it easy for you (as a teacher) eg. pre-printed risk assessments, teachers packs, after ski activities for the kids, etc, etc, then that TO needs you more than you need them.
My personal opinion is that it would be a shame to deny children from anything other than upper income parents the opportunity of experiencing a ski holiday. I don’t know how many people in the forum had their first experience of skiing on a school trip, but I would imagine it’s quite a high percentage.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Somewhere cheap by coach maybe ? surely there are deals out there in the more down market resorts or eastern countries ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have very fond memories of school ski trips in the 80s. We mostly went to France and stayed in passable large guest houses that were a coach ride away from the ski area each morning, although one year we went to Andalo in Italy and actually had a hotel in resort (guess this worked out cheaper than France). We didn't have half terms and the ski trip was normally late January during term time, we had to take work and homework with us and had three hours of supervised study every day after skiing. There were other school trips throughout the year (pony trekking, canoeing, etc.) with similar arrangements.
I guess schools don't operate like that any more...
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I've worked for one of the schools ops, and have worked closely with staff from a number of other companies. I know which ones I would use, and which ones I wouldn't go near with a bargepole. I can honestly say that price wouldn't be in the top 5 of my things to consider over which company to use.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| I can honestly say that price wouldn't be in the top 5 of my things to consider over which company to use. |
But unless the kid's parents can afford to send them (in sufficient numbers to justify the trip) in the 1st place, then everything else is academic.
I assume everyone here is aware of the reduction in school trips. I doubt very much if this has been caused by a lack of facilities for teachers, difficult risk assessments, or anything else other than the disproportionately escalating cost.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Wayne wrote: |
| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| I can honestly say that price wouldn't be in the top 5 of my things to consider over which company to use. |
But unless the kid's parents can afford to send them (in sufficient numbers to justify the trip) in the 1st place, then everything else is academic.
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Interesting (and I didn't see this thread until after I'd just posted in your thread on prices). My daughter's just gone to high school, and they're having a school trip to Austria in January. It'll be the school's first trip - they got a new IT teacher who's been chipping away and managed to get some freebies at the chill factore to introduce the idea of skiing into the school.
Price wise, I have to say I'm a tad taken aback by the cost, however much the idea might appeal to parents, £600 for an unknown for one child is a lot to ask (a number of these kids have never been on holiday before, never mind to the snowy mountains on skis!). Some of the kids are very keen but can't afford it, they're fundraising (bag packing in the supermarket/car washing type activities) but I'm doubting all the places will be filled (which might put the prices up for the rest of us  ) and I'm not too optimistic that there'll be a second trip.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 23-09-09 20:59; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Wayne wrote: |
| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| I can honestly say that price wouldn't be in the top 5 of my things to consider over which company to use. |
But unless the kid's parents can afford to send them (in sufficient numbers to justify the trip) in the 1st place, then everything else is academic. |
That's true, but I'd rather not run the trip than run it without the safeguards in place.
As a trip organiser, I have to plan what I would do should the very worst happen. Sadly I know several people who have taken trips (not necessarily skiing) where they have not all come back home safely. Should anything happen, I want to know that I will get every assistance possible from the TO - otherwise I may as well DIY.
I have a friend who was on a trip where they had an outbreak of Norovirus in the hotel. The TO sent one of the directors out to resort within 24 hours, and he spent the next 2 days cleaning up after kids who were ill. I can honestly say that I would pay extra to go with that company, compared to the one that I ended up organising all the evening activities for, because they never once saw their rep!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kittya, If the trip is an all inclusive trip then £600 quid seems a reasonable price taking into account the cost of lift passes, transport, ski hire, lessons, food, accomodation. As i know from experience though it can be difficult to persuade parents who know nothing about skiing that this is the case.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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garethjomo, Totally agree with you.
kittya, remember that (apart from accomm) to a TO, the unit cost of taking a child on a school trip is much higher than taking a child on a non-school trip. When you work in full board, double ski school (normally) within the cost, extra staffing req, etc, £600 sounds OK to me, up to you though. Like I said in the other post i'm sure your daughter will have a wonderful time - which has to be price-less ?.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| We have been contacted by a number of schools after they booked with another company |
I've run both an adult/friends trip and one school trip. The school trip was with Interski, and I think you are selling them short with the 'dorm' generalisation. All their rooms are en-suite, and the largest we were offered was a 3 bed.
The thing Interski offers that gives me total confidence, is their resorts all funnel down to one point. In the very unlikely event a child manages to ski off on their own, they will either end up at a lift station where they can seek help - or they'll get back to the bottom where the designated member of staff is patrolling.
Your ski area looks good, but there appears to be three different ways off the mountain, which would make me nervous.
For me, there are more considerations than just the price and the comfort.
Chris.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| chrisdavis wrote: |
I've run both an adult/friends trip and one school trip. The school trip was with Interski, and I think you are selling them short with the 'dorm' generalisation. All their rooms are en-suite, and the largest we were offered was a 3 bed.
The thing Interski offers that gives me total confidence, is their resorts all funnel down to one point. In the very unlikely event a child manages to ski off on their own, they will either end up at a lift station where they can seek help - or they'll get back to the bottom where the designated member of staff is patrolling.
Chris. |
Hi Chris, Think you missed the point, sorry probably my fault. I will say again, we are not a school operator so wasn't trying to get any school trips for us.
I also didn't say that school groups are put into dorms. I think a couple of parent/teachers did say that in their kids would rather not be in a room for 2.
My point was that some school trips are too costly and a lot of this is down to organisers not looking around enough before booking. There seems to be a tendency of just re-booking with the same TO each year. This leads to an increase in costs (due to reducing the unit cost imperative from the TO's business model) and so, ultimately, will lead to an overall reduction in kids taking part in school ski holidays.
| chrisdavis wrote: |
| For me, there are more considerations than just the price and the comfort. |
Like I said before, this is all well and good. But from a parent’s point of view, what with all the other normal house-hold bills that need paying, it is the cost of a ski trip that either makes or breaks it. If it is too expensive there simply won’t be a trip to go on as the minimum number won’t be reached.
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Minimum number wasn't reached at my local school this year for the ski trip to the states.
They've arranged to go with a local school from the next town instead so that they can still go.
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SnowboardVicky, the States ? how much would that have cost ?
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I'll double check the numbers (for this year) when I get in this evening:-
Last year it was approx. £1300.
This was for a week at easter
Scheduled flights
They had five days skiing/snowboarding, equipment hire and tuition included.
Breakfast and evening meal was included.
(They used to include a packed lunch as well, but the kids binned it and bought a burger, so now they just ask parents to include money for lunch)
A few evening activities were included (bowling, swimming, trip to the mall)
All the local schools here go to the states.
Two of the reasons as I understand it is a) snow conditions and b) the fact the alcohol is so hard to obtain etc.
The kids were two to a room and all seemed to have loved it.
It's actually cheaper for us to pay this price, which may seem a little high, so that my husband and I can go on our own in the middle of January.
If/when the three of us went in school holidays (christmas or easter), then the cost of the three of us going is/was ridiculous!
Note, we've just had a letter home frm school for a two day MATHS trip to Alton Towers. Staying at an Alton Towers hotel for £170!!!! (That's silly money)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kittya, your £600 is usually buying you
- flights
- transfers
- full board
- four hours ski school per day
- equipment hire
- lift pass
- insurance
- full evening entertainment programme
- 24 hour supervision
You can't seriously consider that to be expensive.
Schools like specialist TOs because they are there to deal with the worst possible scenario. Consider:
1. Coach group arrives in resort with Norovirus. It goes through both groups in the hotel plus the staff, then back into the first group. TO arranges flight home instead of coach.
2. Coach slides off the road on the way home in a blizzard. TO sends staff up to the scene, arranges emergency accommodation for the group and alternative transport consisting of local coach to Grenoble and replacement UK coach once there.
3. Transfer coach has accident, teacher seriously injured. TO gets group to airport, sends staff to hospital, arranges accommodation and support for teacher's wife.
You want to deal with this stuff yourself? Parents: would you like to see this dealt with by a teacher who probably doesn't speak the local language and may have no experience of overseas emergencies, or would you rather it was taken on by an organisation which has the relevant experience, local contacts and senior staff on the ground?
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| SnowboardVicky wrote: |
I'll double check the numbers (for this year) when I get in this evening:-
Last year it was approx. £1300.
This was for a week at easter
Scheduled flights
They had five days skiing/snowboarding, equipment hire and tuition included.
Breakfast and evening meal was included.
(They used to include a packed lunch as well, but the kids binned it and bought a burger, so now they just ask parents to include money for lunch)
A few evening activities were included (bowling, swimming, trip to the mall)
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| SnowboardVicky wrote: |
That's silly money |
1300 for a weeks skiing for a kid?
Jeez I don't think I've ever spent more than 1K on any ski trip of my own - including 6 month in advance pre-booked TO fest in nice catered chalet in an expensive resort. I think I'd really struggle to pay that for my nipper (if I had one) for a one week school trip.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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dodgy webserver double post
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 24-09-09 13:13; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When the three of us went at New Year to our prefered resort in Canada about three years agofor ten days the cost, including what we spent, was in the region of £4500. This time of year was only picked so that we didn't take child out of school.
This year, husband and I will spend less than £3000 all in on our holiday and childs will be around £1500 all in. So the Total spend for the three of us will be less this year than what it was three years ago. All because we can go in term time.
Yes there are cheaper ways of doing holidays. But since Canada is what we prefer to do, then this is the cheapest way for us that allows the child to ski too!!
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I do remember that my last school ski trip (in 1985) cost around £250. That included return flights from Manchester to Bergamo, coach transfers to Andalo, full-board accommodation in a basic hotel (sleeping four to a room), equipment hire, lift pass and full day ski school. I would think the equivalent cost in 2009 would be around three times that much. Is the cost of living now three times more than it was 25 years ago? I'd think so, in which case the cost of skiing has risen in line with the general cost of living. Would others agree?
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You know it makes sense.
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£250 in the UK in 1985 would now be worth £567.72 (well up to 1st Jan 09 anyway)
BUT
That’s the UK inflation rate.
Maybe wrong but don't think there is a pan European index, which would allow a combination of European, and UK as some of the cost eg, Flight, would be in pounds and other stuff would be in something else.
So the most exact method I can think of would be to think of a number and assume it's about right.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wayne, house prices are way more than three times as much as they were in 1985 surely? My old house doubled from 2001 to 2005!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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queen bodecia, house prices are stupid and can't be included in any meaningful calculation. Or are you saying that every other cost has increased by the same rate?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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queen bodecia, House prices have waaaay outstripped inflation. People buying up houses for buy to let here and elsewhere is one of the main drivers of the credit crunch!
I don't really understand why lots of people appear to be appalled at what somebody else paid for a ski trip. Surely their look out!
Also I'd say that hunting for deals everywhere can be bloody frustrating and time consuming. For some people it's not worth it...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| Ski holiday are (compared to buying a nice house) extremely cheap |
Price is relative. Value has definitely improved I reckon
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wayne, 675% over 24years is not 28.1%pa, it is quite a bit less due to the effects of compounding. However I have no clue what the formula is to give you the right answer so I shall shut up (for now).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| with the buying power that large groups have, there is no reason to pay these daft prices. |
Do large groups have buying power?
We run a two or three (non-school) group trips each year, each for 40-50 people (almost all experienced skiers), and always have difficulty in getting tour operators interested: chalets are too small, and they typically only have small room allocations in the vast majority of the hotels they use [self catering is not an option.]. Quite often we end up in chalet-hotels, but these are only in a relatively small number of resorts and so the choice is restricted. We book very early (almost a year in advance) so it's not as if they are already full!
If anyone can recommend a few hotels bookable via a UK tour operator with flights/transfers (needed for the legal reasons mentioned in another post), which is mostly twin-rooms (some doubles, some triples are okay) in any reasonably major ski areas across Europe then please do so. One trip is low-season January, one March, and usually one over Easter too.
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| RobW wrote: |
| Do large groups have buying power? |
They do with TO's that only deal with groups ie. School specialists
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 24-09-09 17:28; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| Hi Chris, Think you missed the point, sorry probably my fault. I will say again, we are not a school operator so wasn't trying to get any school trips for us. |
Nope, I got your point all right.
I was pointing out reasons for staying with Interski, in terms of the managability their resorts offer for staff leading trips. I want all of my children funneling to the same point at the end of the day. Courmayeur and Pila offer this (wouldn't use La Thuille - cos of lack of a hotel feel to their accomodation). Not too many affordable resorts offer that.
Plus, their on-hill infrastructure is first class. My wife had an on-hill accident on our inspection visit. She was in the hospital within 12 minutes - all via I-S staff.
Not really after a mass debate, just my viewpoint.
CD.
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school trips may be expensive but uni ones are dirt cheap. Our unis trip to tignes in january has a basic price of £349, including accomodation (dorms are still more fun at 20) transport local lift pass and insurance. Since I own my own kit and will cook the entire week should cost less than £450. Don't bother with school ski trips, the snow will probably still be here in 5 years when the price of a trip drops to around a third if £1300 really is the going rate. And for 5 days skiing as well, I'd want at least 6 for that price
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FAQ
