Driving to Austria in Feb 2009 ... Do I need winter tyres or will chains do?

A snowHead

Hi There,

FIRST:
Last kids holidays in Feb I flew to Munich with my family and the neighbour and his family as well. We hired 2 cars and I took along a set of Snow chains to put on the hire car. My neighbour was going to rent or buy some as well. The car hire place insisted that if we were going into Austria WE MUST HIRE a car with winter tyres. I said I had chains and did not need them, plus they wanted over €100 more as well. They told me the law in Austria was that winter tyres were compulsory and chains were not an option on summer tyres. So after 20 minutes of arguing we signed up for the winter tyre option. When I got back home I noticed on the invoce they had not charged me for winter tyres but extra insurance, same for my neighbour as well. That led me to think that the car I hired probably had them on already and they stitched me up for more money as everyone at the car hire desk was having the same argument.

SECOND:
In Feb 2009 we have decided to drive to Austria because the cost of flights and car hire in the kids holidays is just so much. So I emailed the Austrian tourist board about this law and have not got a reply back yet. My research on the net seems to say that as an alternative to winter tyres is having snow chains on summer tyres.

So does anyone know that if I drive to Austria and take a set of chains I will be OK? Or will the Austrian police have a field day with me which the car hire company this year reckons would happen...!!! Or do I buy a spare set of wheels here and stick winter tyres on them and drive with them on….Or is that pretty extreme!!!

Help and advice much appreciated...

Thanks

NehNeh

A snowHead

Law in Germany too, at least in adverse weather conditions. Actually I think they have to be at least "All Weather Tyres", although everyone calls them "Winter Tyres". Rental car should therefore have "winter tyres" (but best to check!).

I have summer tyres, but just don't drive in bad weather, although I'll probably change this year. Can't comment on Austrian laws, but I'm not convinced by summer tyres and chains.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

stortfordhal, Sorry can't advise on law in austria, i am sure a resident of the country will be along in a minute.

We have 2 sets of wheel and tyres for both cars. I find the grip in mud rain etc of winter tyres is miles better than summer ones, i have never understood why in the uk most people don't have them then complain when thay get stuck in muddy carparks, skid in the wet etc. Winter tyres make a huge difference. We also drive to the alps a lot, and with the winter tyres have never used chains, even with my old rear wheel drive merc estate we used to have. remember driving past a uk reg 4 wheel drive santa fe in flaine carpark which was covered in compacted snow in the merc, it was stuck, the drivers face was a picture when we just started up and drove out around him! (did offer to help!)

This place is good for winter tyres www.camskill.co.uk

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stortfordhal, An Austrian resident will be along soon to give you they law. In practical terms (i.e. driving to a resort amd leaving you car there for a week while you ski), then summer tyres and chains will be fine. My current car came with mud and snow tyres (it's not a 4X4), and they do grip much better in snow, but, for a couple of weeks a year, unless the law demands it, I'd stick with normal tyres + chains.

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Thanks. So by the sounds of it normal tyres and chains will be good enough to drive to an Austrian resort, unless someone tells me it is against the law like the car hire chap in Munich........

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

stortfordhal,

In Switzerland, I believe there are regions, that insist on winter tyres from Oct onwards. Lucerne, at around 400mtrs, has this requirement, AIUI

I would imagine that Austria will have the same sort of thing. However that might be for locals who travel by car into the hills a lot.
for the tourist, snow chains will need to be carried and the police may stop you going any further unless fitted.

Dedicated winter tyres might be an option if you do this a lot... as friends of mine do, but you'll knock them out pretty quickly on our roads otherwise.

Depending where you go in Austria but most resorts are around 1000m on lowlands so the roads are relatively easy to keep clear,plus you are talking about a nation and region that is geared up for this sort of thing. You would only have to worry if you hit a storm, IMV... and then you have to decide to carry on or hole up.
Still not a defintive answer on Austrian law on this matter tho'

After all it is free

youspurs1, I don't think it was off topic, the last sentence he asked about buying winter tyres................

summer tyres are not good as good in the wet or at low temperatures, especially so called high performance versions, it is not what they were designed for.

anyway here is the link to the austrian goverment website advice

http://www.help.gv.at/Content.Node/134/Seite.1340000.html

Carroz, that seesm a good link, have saved it for future reference.

Stortfordhal, it seems to me that you would definitely be best to get winter tyres for a number of reasons

1)They are also now compulsary in Germany between Dec 1st and Feb 28th. Although you can avoid driving via Germany, as JT says things may be even stricter in Switzerland plus there may be significant differences between Cantons?

2)If you do rely on chains you will spend a lot of time putting them on and taking them off if the road is not covered as defined in Carroz's link- you'll probably end up with frostbitten fingers!

3) Many alpine parts of Austria only completely clear the main roads, unless there is a longish spell without new snow that gives them time to get around. On side roads you are more likely to find the surface 'chipped' with small stones on top of the compacted snow to aid traction.

Where are you going? there's bound to be someone on here who knows it well enough to tell you whether or not you will end up wishing you had just got the winter tyres?

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So it looks like I can drive in Austria using my normal tyres and chains... But getting there vis Germany or Switzerland maybe an issue!!!

SITE SAYS:
As an alternative to winter tyres, snow chains may be used on at least two driving wheels, however, these may only be used in case the road is covered by a complete or scarcely broken snow cover or sheet of ice.

I have put chains on before serveral times on my car (Audi A6 with 16" wheels) in France and have mastered it quite well. Was thinking of driving to Lech next year. When I drove up to Obertauern this Feb from Munich with Winter Tyres there was lots of snow on the ground and I must say they were good. Thing is driving from the UK all the way to Austria with winter tyres on maybe not that economical.. Little Angel

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stortfordhal,

Lech is just off the main through road from Switzerland to Innsbruck so the main drag should be a priority to clear. The road up to Lech has tunnels through the most avalanched parts and it not so steep. I'd expect you might need chains for the last part of the journey ..and then only in the middle of a storm.

Having said that..we are always praying for it to be lashing down on our outward journey as that will bring the snow we want. I'd tackle that trip with a well equpped ( legally ) car with chains. The worst I'd expect would be to be stuck down the valley and a few hours late in resort. I'd cross over into Switzerland at Basel, hit Zurich and then onto Austria, and expect it to take 10 hrs at a reasonable constant pace with no long stops

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I spent a fair amount of time before we drove to Austria (for the first time) last year and never really got a definitive answer. In Germany you are supposed to have tyres suitable for the conditions at the time and German plod will make you pull over till conditions improve. All-weather tyres are supposed to be the minimum that you'll get away with in anything from slush onwards. Austria supposedly summer tyres are ok as long as you have chains in the car and put them on when told, but then there was some story just after Xmas that following a big dump the Austrian government introduced regulations similar to the German ones - suitable tyres for the conditions. We decided to bite the bullet and buy proper winter tyres and we had dry roads and sunshine there and back which is just sods law. But then the weather could have been cr*p and winter tyres are a load better in those conditions. Nowadays, they arent any different to drive on than normal tyres, yes they do wear a bit quicker but thats about it. We got Dunlop SP Winter Sports which were recommended
Dont forget all the other bits and pieces - hazard jackets etc - theres a good list on the AA site - I asked them about tyres as well and didnt really get an answer..................

Thanks for that mikeh.

. It sounds like to me that I need the proper winter tyres for the conditions now, as the rules seem pretty vauge and last thing I want is the local plod getting out there BIG FINE BOOK... Seeing us in the UK only have summer tyres, then maybe I need to bite the bullet and buy a new set of winter tyres and a spare set of wheels off EBAY and have a winter set.... Or just drive to France with my chains only, which I have done a couple of times before, with no problems. Used the chains once driving down from Meribel with summer tyres during a big dump and no problems.

Only doing this whole thing to try and save some dosh on the kids holidays next Feb as there are 5 in our family and flying plus hire car in Feb is just tooooo much now...... My neighbour that is driving with us has well has M & S All Weather tyres on his X-Trail so I guess he may just need chains in case we hit some heavy stuff. Blush

You know it makes sense.

I can never understand trying to save a few quid when the life of everyone in your car is at risk if you do not have the safest equipment possible. To me its a no brainer - if winter tyres are safer in the conditions that tend to prevail then thats what you should fit.

I have been driving to the mountains for over twenty years and have seen many a car slide on summer tyres when everyone around is driving perfectly ok on winter tyres. Mine go on on October and come off after the last ski trip of the year normally mid April. Temperature has the same effect wherever you are and regardless of the law in that country - winter tyres really start to come into their own around 5-7 degrees.

Don't worry about the Law in Austria, Germany or wherever just consider the risk to you and your passengers if you don't have winter tyres.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

stortfordhal,

I live in Austria. Legally you only need summer tyres and chains but in order to conform to the law you would need to put the chains on in 'winter conditions'. Snow falls on areas not countries and it's usual during a long journey through Austria to encounter 'winter conditions' many times inbetween periods of the road being "unwintery". The bottom line is that unless everything is in deep winter conditions (which is unpredictable) you will spend a lot of time messing about with chains to the extent that you are likely to change them a lot less than you really should. This either means driving in winter conditions without chains or driving with chains on road surfaces that could damage the chains and/or the car. It's a bit like having to stop the car and fix/demount windscreen wipers when it rains/clears up again, you could get caught out by a suddden change in conditions. (e.g. dry road with an iced up corner) Most people in Austria drive with winter tyres, OK they will use them a lot more and get their moneys worth of of them, but they will also stop a lot quicker than you can with summer tyres. In the wrong conditions your journey could be an absolute nightmare, most cars around you would acerlerate/brake and handle a lot better. Strictly you would need to put chains on where the vast majority wouldn't. While you truddle along at the max speed limit permitted by the chains the backlog of impatient drivers behind you will be fighting to get past - this makes the whole situation more dangerous. The worst winter driving in the UK isn't a patch on the conditions here - it can remain below freezing for weeks sometimes months. If traveling by car from UK to Austria in winter then I wouldn't put myself, the other passengers in the car or other road users at an increased risk just so that I could save a bit of money - I'd either payup and get a car with winter tyres or fly/train there.

A snowHead

Fred & DB....If you read what I am saying I am trying to save money by not flying and paying for a hire car versus driving myself. Have driven to France 3 times quite safely and am trying to determine the best way now to drive to Austria as the laws seem very vague.

Thanks

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I appriciate the advice. Sounds like it all got a bit nasty then last season in Austria. Better buy another set of wheels then and get some winter tyres. Will look at the Dunlop SP Winter Sports or maybe AVON as well seeing all my current tyres are AVON. wink

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stortfordhal,

Tyre tests here (in german)

overview
http://www.oeamtc.at/tests/reifen/

205/55 R16 size
http://www.oeamtc.at/refresh/frameset.php?p=http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/reifentests/winter2007/205/uebersicht.htm

Dunlop do better than avon in the tests..... be aware that winter tyres have a shelf life of 4-5 years esp if buying used.

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Hi DB... Well I don't read German but AVON are at the bottom and the DUNLOP are 2nd... looks like DUNLOP... Found this lot in the UK that supply winter tyres and have there reviews, maily in German but some English.

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&cart_id=22504422.110.10062&m_s=3&tyre_for=PKWWi&s_p=Winter_Tyres

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PS.

Looks like they are German with a UK front company... http://www.delti.com/english/

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The FCO advice page in Austria does say that winter tyres are compulsory, as is a high vis vest kept within reach of the driver, so you can put it on before you get out of the car. Of course you would need chains as well, in extreme conditions.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/europe/austria?ta=safetySecurity&pg=2

After all it is free

stortfordhal, you could also try here.

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achilles, we have winter tyres because of spending such a long time in the Alps - we put them on before going out at the beginning of the season, drive home with them in Feb, for the school hols, then finally take them off at the end of the season. When we started we had just two winter tyres (on the advice of the tyre man in Sallanches, who I thought would know better than I) and put them on rims so we could change them ourselves. But when we got a new car, and were driving out to the Alps 2 days later, I got four snow tyres (with difficulty, took me half a day on the internet) and the local garage changed them for us. We have a storage spot for them in the garage (and thanks to a tip on Snowheads I now know that we should rotate them a quarter of a turn every now and then). Unlike our initial snow tyres they are rated for high speed and don't seem to wear out particularly quickly, so it only costs the price of changing and re-balancing the wheels. And they are supposed to be better in the winter in the UK, though as a sub-performance driver I can't say I notice any difference; I never had any problem stopping, or going round corners, on the old ones. wink

But I wouldn't bother with all that if I only went for a week each year - and even with the snow tyres I put chains on 8 - 10 times a season. Usually with a glad heart, too!

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pam w, these days I drive low mileage annually - though a regular stint on the A1 keeps my eye in. I will be a maximum of 3 weeks in the Alps - but if so it will be separate weeks. So £230 plus 3 lots of tyre changes - or one lot if I accept high-ish wear but with low mileage from first fitting to removal again. Max life 4 years. Actually, that could be on.

Why would you change your tyres three times??? Keep the winter ones on for a few months, they hardly wear out faster than normal ones nowadays and you extend the life of the normal tyres, so overall little extra expense.

You know it makes sense.

horizon, no, if I go for it I will change only once before the first ski trip - and once after last one of season.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

and you would have the best tyres for winter conditions in the UK too - though having said that it was rarely cold enough for them to be better, last winter. I think it needs to be below 7 - 8 degrees or so, and that didn't happen very often - not in the south anyway. Maybe more often in Belgium though.

A snowHead

Spoke to one of the lawyers on the way out of the office tonight. Although the law was changed from 01.01.08 to say summer tyres and chains would be OK he said there was a further Amendment last month ( June 08 ) to say that neither summer tyres or snow chains were suitable in slush. In slush conditions summer tyres aren't up to the job and chains would cut through and damage the road so effectively you would need winter tyres.

A snowHead

Thanks for all the advice. So looks like to drive to Austria for a week next Feb I need a spare set of wheels with winter tyres to stick on my car before I leave. But.... my neightbour is driving with us as well in his Nissan 4x4 which has All Weather tyres marked M & S (Mud and Snow)... any ideas? Would he be OK with them and a set of chains for heavy snow? wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Great. Thanks a lot.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Have I missed something here.

Did I understand that the poster took his own chains on the plane?

If so not worried about the baggage limits?

That the funniest thing I have heard in a long while, LOL !

I know cars rented in Munich & Zurich in the winter come with M & S tyres. Chains are rarely needed in Austria. Last time I used chains in Austria was 1985.

Note.
Chains are not good for Tyres and damage to tyres on rental cars will be charged.

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Yes you have missed quite a bit. As this thread is about what is the state of the law now when driving a car from the UK to Austria next Feb.

Correct me if I am wrong but are M & S rated tyres on All Weather tyres and not Winter tyres with the snowflake? If they are on all weather then are they legal in Austria as the posts are saying the law is for Winter tyres?

I did bring chains as I had to buy some after I rented a car in Italy and they were out of them at Hertz office for a Ford Focus I rented when I was driving up to La Thuile. So seeing AVIS does not list chains as an option on it's Munich web site this Feb I took the set I bought a month ealier as there winter tyre rental was a rip off when renting a FOCUS.

Note: I have never damaged tyres on a rental car with chains and I don't know anybody that has....

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

PS.

You mustn't get out much if that is the funniest thing you have heard in a long while, LOL ! Laughing

The snow was about knee deep in Mayrhofen one year, with all the buses running chains all day, and the snowploughs going up/down all night. Now the road up to Mayrhofen is flat as a pancake (maybe that's why the Dutch like it?), and only 600m ASL, but it would have been half a morning digging the car out before even worrying about using chains to get out of the carpark.
Forget which year, but I know it was after 1997.

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Driving to Austria in Feb 2009 ... Do I need winter tyres or will chains do?

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