 Poster: A snowHead
|
Following on from my request for info on cheaper family holidays, what prices/factors are people using for driving to the Alps?
Seeing as ski carriage and bag charges seem to be increasing I am trying to work out which would be best for us from Leeds.
Cheers,
Greg
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
The viamichelin link I gave you will give you the cost of your journey in fuel and tolls in France. I budget £270 for fuel and tolls but it usually comes in a bit less (as long as I can stop my speed creeping up in the last 150 miles or so  ). You'd be looking at fuel down to Folkestone if you go by tunnel and about £160 return fare (or £40 worth of Tesco Clubcard vouchers if you have any).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
You can get an estimate of the cost of driving through France here:
http://www.autoroutes.fr/en/homepage.html
It gives you a route and prices for tolls and fuel.
Eg. Calais to Moutiers is 931km, takes about 79 litres of petrol in a Megane costing 103 euros plus 66.10 euros for the Peage - each way!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
The true cost is higher than just crossings, fuel and tolls. Factor in Insurance (poss including breakdown cover), chains, depreciaton, tyres, oil, servicing, parking, etc etc. if you drive 2000 miles in a week then that is one sixth of an car's average annual mileage, possibly one sixth of one a set of tyres and one sixth of a service cost etc etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Frosty the Snowman, Still much more enjoyable than flying to the alps from East Midlands Airport with EasyJet this coming season 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, no difference in my insurance costs, and my breakdown cover include europe at no extra cost. It still works out cheaper for us as we would have to add on the cost of kennelling the dog for 7 or 8 weeks a year too if we chose to fly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Helen Beaumont, it would add to my insurance costs, though I am not sure by how much. And as FTS points out, there are other costs to factor in. I'm thinking of driving across to the EOSB - but realise the costs will be more than fuel, ferry fees and road tolls.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
kitenski, We have found Norfolk Line to be a cheaper crossing than other ferries, from Dover - Dunkerque. Just 1hr 40 mins or so and a very efficient service 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Yeah sorry I forgot to include the extras, most of them are one offs tho. You'll need a warning triangle, spare set of bulbs, a reflective vest (make sure you keep this *IN* the car in France, not in the boot), a GB sticker, headlamp deflectors and a set of chains. It costs us £10 extra on our insurance for a green card and annual breakdown cover (which we have anyway).
You should get 40,000+ miles out of a set of tyres so it's 1/20th of the cost of your boots (unless you have a Dukes of Hazzard driving style like Frosty appears to, 12,000 miles out of a set indeed! )
Service costs, a lot of new cars have a 12month/20,000 miles service interval, if you aren't doing 20,000 miles in a year you have to get it serviced after 12 months anyway so it's no cost. If you are doing 20K a year then it's 1/10th not 1/6th
If you have to factor in the cost of oil on a 2K trip I'd go so far as to suggest your car might not be up to the job.
I don't know what parking Frosty is on about, I haven't paid parking on a trip so far (maybe I've just been lucky with the destinations I've visited).
So in short there are some extra costs but in comparison to trying to get flights for 2 adults and 2 children in the school holidays I'm happy not to count them and consider them negligible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| TotallyBoard wrote: |
| ...You should get 40,000+ miles out of a set of tyres ... |
I don't. I wonder how many do.
[edit to add on]
| Quote: |
| I don't know what parking Frosty is on about, I haven't paid parking on a trip so far (maybe I've just been lucky with the destinations I've visited). |
Nor have I - but I remember a trip when I very much began to wish I had. Heavy snowfalls at La Daille meant that every night for a week the authorities needed the car park cleared so that they could run the snow ploughs through - and it was a real pain. On top of that, Clearing the car when it was time to depart was a major exercise (I was solo in the car). Despite digging around everywhere I thought was necessary, I found I had ripped the mudflaps off the car when I got home. At least I had left the snow chains on, it would have added further grief to the departure otherwise. It was one reason why, up til now, I have not taken the car out to the Alps again. Oh, I forgot to add that when driving out the road from Moutier onward was blocked - so I had to hole up over night.
[/edit]
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 9-09-09 14:31; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| achilles wrote: |
| TotallyBoard wrote: |
| ...You should get 40,000+ miles out of a set of tyres ... |
I don't. I wonder how many do. |
Me neither 12-20k max............
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I sincerely hope I can get 30k out of mine, because that's when the lease co get's it back 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
TotallyBoard, excellent, your figures look spot on  . Glad that your breakdown cover is Europwide, really pleased that you get over 40,000 out of a set of tyres, chuffed that you hardly ever need to service your car, change your oil, or pay for parking. Good on ya.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
My car is on 80,000km and it's 3rd set of summer tyres, although I've currently got it on it's 1st set of M+S. Factoring in the cost of 1/6 of an oil change, 1/6 of a drain plug and half a spark plug is nuts. I think the portion of a service cost that could be attributed to the wear and tear of a single 2000mile journey is basically pocket money and probably less than a return bus fare to your nearest airport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Not sure I'd want to drive at February half term again although I have in the past when I could set out on the Friday. On the other hand I quite enjoy driving at Easter when the weather is a little more reliable and it's not so much of a rush. I can also pile all the bedding, skis and all the other gubbins in the car. Cheap it isn't though, we always have 1 overnight each way too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I'm with TotallyBoard on this. I have nearly 61k miles on the clock and have replaced only one tyre so far. I never reach my annual service mileage and my insurance covers me for 60 days in Europe. However, I can't see driving ever being economic for only the two of us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
altis, I'm curious. What car - and what tyres?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
andy, The title of the thread asks for the true cost. Part of my job involves working out the precise running cost of of a vehicle.
The AA car running costs table will show an average car's doing 14-22,000 miles per year will have annual standing costs of approx £3843.00 and running costs of 21.4 pence per mile.... but as you say, just pocket money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
This is all really interesting. For me, door-to-door to somewhere nearish Geneva is probably exactly the same by air or by road. Looks like 2 passengers by car is more or less a break-even point, and 3 passengers starts to look like a profit.
Never done it before, but am thinking of upgrading the gas-sucking 2-door noisy hatchbastard to a big comfy air conditioned sofa of a thing in the near future, so might look attractive this season or next or the one after...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Cheap it isn't though, we always have 1 overnight each way too.
|
and you might need to do so, even when not planned - the weather can upset everything. For us, driving is a no-brainer, given horrendous hire costs now, but it's not often going to be cheaper for a week, except at half term (not that I've ever been skiing at half term yet, nor ever intend to.....). I've not thought for a long time about how many miles we get out of a set of tyres. (I find it best not to tot up the cost of motoring, or skiing). The ones we've replaced on this car were because of damage (OH drove into kerbs on two occasions and faulty tracking, not repaired after an accident, caused bad damage too - paid for by insurance company after lots of irate correspondence about their negligence). Two of the four snow tyres need replacing now - they're legal, but not good enough for snow. But they've done three winters, including two return trips from the UK to the Alps, and are left on from Dec - April. The vehicle has done 64,000 miles in 3.5 years but we've not spent a lot on tyres. We drive them considerately, keep them properly inflated and have the tracking checked when we swap from winter/summer tyres (a season in the Alps, with some rough surfaces, chains etc can upset the tracking).
My dad always used to reckon to change his car when it needed a new set of tyres - was probably nearer 40,000 miles than 12. He was sadly deluded, in my view - but like most drivers who pay for "new" cars (and those who reckon it's cheap to drive to the Alps) he was blinkered about depreciation. Our last car was passed on to one of the offspring (at just below book price with 140K on the clock. Continued to cause no problem at all (Toyota).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| achilles wrote: |
| altis, I'm curious. What car - and what tyres? |
Daihatsu Hijet LPG with Michelin X 155R12C - tiny!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
not been mentioned yet but if you're looking for cheaper family holidays, then some Austrian resorts are well within driving distance, can be cheaper than France and very few toll charges
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Part of the disagreement above is a failure to distinguish between the marginal costs of driving to the Alps and the full costs of doing so. The full costs have to calculated as FtS is doing - most of the posts above are looking at marginal costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| andy wrote: |
| ......probably less than a return bus fare to your nearest airport. |
Return train fare to EMA booked in advance - £13.90 with senior rail card. Return bus fare Grenoble to Les deux Alpes - about €26.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Frosty the Snowman, I don't suppose you any web links sites giving typical running costs inc. depreciation & servicing, by model ? I used to have one, but can't find it. I recall at the time my car worked out at about 50p a mile all in. Stuff like EVO VI's were something like £2.50 a mile 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
I've a company car which negates some of the marginal costs but adds some others in. I have to have green card and a certificate giving permission to take car abroad. Company also insists I have breakdown cover which includes repatriation of car if necessary which usually means AA or RAC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Part of the disagreement above is a failure to distinguish between the marginal costs of driving to the Alps and the full costs of doing so. The full costs have to calculated as FtS is doing - most of the posts above are looking at marginal costs. |
Isn't that sort of the same thing as when one calculates a self-catered holiday total spend and includes the eating and the drinking.
After all, I'd do that anyway - on holiday or not - so it's not really part of the holiday cost. Or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
paulio, You wouldn't normally travel 2000 miles in a week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
paulio, except that for every journey of a car, you could say you'd have the car anyway. The only way to work out the cost is the full cost, IMV. Even if you are determined to stick to 'marginal cost' you get into a mess defining it. For example you are exposing your car to extra risk compared to leaving it in your garage back hoe - so you are more likely to have an insurance claim. And of course you are adding to wear, servicing costs, and depreciation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
chances are, if you're driving, you won't have the wear and tear on your luggage as you would when flying, don't forget that in your micro costings
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
paulio,
| Quote: |
Isn't that sort of the same thing as when one calculates a self-catered holiday total spend and includes the eating and the drinking.
After all, I'd do that anyway - on holiday or not - so it's not really part of the holiday cost. Or is it?
|
I think you have to be comparing like withl ike. I never deduct the price of food I would eat at home from a catered holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
masmith, I won't. The suitcase I was using on holiday this summer is 25 years old - and has flown many miles. I reckon the cost of luggage damage can reasonably taken as nil.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Don't forget to add in the €0.50 per person to take a pee at the Autobahn/Autoroute services (or €0.30 if you go thru Belgium en route to Austria). Although in many German ones you get a voucher back to spend in the coffee shop (thereby ensuring you'll need to stop for another pee).
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 9-09-09 15:19; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
achilles,
| Quote: |
I won't. The suitcase I was using on holiday this summer is 25 years old - and has flown many miles. I reckon the cost of luggage damage can reasonably taken as nil.
|
Maybe, airlines have twice lost luggage of mine going skiing, the insurance has never covered the cost to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
It all has to be looked at in the round considering depreciation on all parts (not just tyres) and the actual travel costs. Blockages as noted above can happen or delays when on a plane as well, so it shouldn't be taken into consideration. There is likely to be more of a benefit in cost though overall in the school holidays because of that natural hike in prices.
Incidently, the one huge advantage of a car whilst being away (subject to poor conditions causing problems such as those encountered by achilles, above) is that you can visit totally different areas. We have a habit of stopping off in one low resort like Brides Les Bains, do a day in Meribel, etc then continue the next day to another resort before finally driving to our intended resort. Makes for a great holiday and exciting snow time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
masmith, you also have to cost in the increased risk that someone will slip a kilo of heroin into your suitcase whilst at an airport, for which the bail might be tens of thousands.
Those Easyjet flights you got for £75 don't look so cheap now do they?
I actually reckon given that I live by the sea that my car depreciates more whilst parked, rusting, under a torrent of seagull offerings than it does during a nice engine clearing blast up 500 miles of motorway.
As for 'risk of insurance' and all that, see suitcase analogy above. You can't cost based on 'potential', only on actual spend.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
