 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm certain to attract derision, but here goes.
How does one go about running a modest little cafe in the Alps, say, but without blowing a huge sum of money buying a place?
Presumably there must be franchise arrangements, or circumstances where owners lease the place (with a little flat above to live in) as a going concern, that kind of thing.
Anybody done so?
I quite fancy operating one of those beer pression machines and cooking omelettes for a few months, maybe in a couple of years.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From my observation, I think most people who run their own little café/bar work very long days when the punters are around (no chance of any skiing) in order to make any kind of living, given the very short season. It would be an odd decision for them to lease out their café - except for heaps of dosh - only for the most lucrative time of the year. Become a wage-slave, rather than a proprietor, I'd say. Take an older person's gap year. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Businesses for sale all the time in the Alps. Often the previous owners will be more than happy to keep the real estate interest IIRC for tax purposes and take rent off you while you do the hard work. Just remember they are unlikely to take the business back off you for the same price you paid for it and you need good legal advice in English to ensure you aren't contrained on selling the business on without the freehold.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You'd have to buy the fond du commerce, and it's not the kind of thing which would give you any ski time, given that people like to eat mainly during the day. See here: http://fonds-commerce.vivastreet.fr/annonces-commerce-pas-de-porte+les-deux-alpes-38860.
If you want to work a season and get any significant skiing done you need to apply to TOs or local bars. And remember that if you want to work for a local business you will have to speak the language to a reasonable level. If you want to run a business you will need to speak it to quite a good level or pay someone else to do it for you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All round, not a great plan then?
OK.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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paulio, Nothing wrong with dreaming. 
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"La page que vous demandez n'existe pas" - for us Brits anyway. Not that I was even dreaming of opening up a cafe - but I was mildly intrigued.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'll stop tweaking my tartiflette recipe then, shall I.
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Nothing to do for weeks and then lines of impatient grumpy people in February.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Helen Beaumont, thanks. Exciting cost of just the 'goodwill' - which I thing fond du commerce is, isn't it? Never been too impressed with 'goodwill' as a price on British business - it's a very intangible asset - and highly dependent on the present operator's circumstances and working method.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Frosty the Snowman, like a whore on Valentine's Day.
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achilles,
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Never been too impressed with 'goodwill' as a price on British business - it's a very intangible asset
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But very efficient in achieving tax relief on a purchase over 3, 5 or even 10 years It is possible the goodwill is for the taxman the difference between the bricks and mortar cost against the actual price the business is sold for 
paulio,
Dont be put off keep looking, 'cos you never know what deals may be out there.
Tim Wall owner of The pub ski lodge (and now several other businesses) was told not to bother when he suggested he could open a bar in the new resort of La Tania.
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You know it makes sense.
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Boredsurfing, he doesn't actually want to run a business though, does he? He's after "operating one of those beer pression machines and cooking omelettes for a few months". And presumably skiing a lot, which isn't likely to happen if he's cooking enough omelettes to turn a profit.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Not just omelettes. That was merely an example.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lizzard, Fair point, but as we all know flipping a few omlettes and serving beer is so easy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lizzard, any vacancies for that wood cutting job (paid in gingerbread) at the moment?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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paulio, it's carrot cake this week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
achilles,
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Never been too impressed with 'goodwill' as a price on British business - it's a very intangible asset
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But very efficient in achieving tax relief on a purchase over 3, 5 or even 10 years It is possible the goodwill is for the taxman the difference between the bricks and mortar cost against the actual price the business is sold for .... |
Except that very often I don't think a business is worth much more than the property and stock (including intellectual property and patents - don't think paulio will be paying much for those). Technical know-how, may also be worth paying for. But goodwill? I think not. I remember that the SCGB paid a substantial amount for 'goodwill' when they bought out Freshtracks in order to gain CST as CE. It might have been more clear for the membership to have declared the money as a Golden Hello.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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There's always chance to apply for that "job" someone was advertising here. You get whole chalet for free, and when they are not around, I'm sure you could turn it into place for operating one of those beer pression machines and cooking omelettes 
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Very good.
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our local resto in France changed hands a couple of years ago. It was hugely successful and popular and, I'm sure, profitable. Run by a couple very well known locally, without any help that I ever noticed. Throughout the season they worked all day, just about every day. They had converted the place themselves, from a barn, 20 years ago, and it was right on the edge of the piste - perfect for lunchtime stops. It was sold to a Frenchman from elsewhere who had an apartment in the development and the word on the block is that the price - and the "goodwill" - was pretty steep. Anyhow, he made a very bad start, squandered the goodwill rather quickly and is now really struggling, I suspect. Pleasant guy, but absolutely not a restaurateur (more of a cyclist) and he employs a cook in the winter. We wonder sadly how long he'll survive.
The previous proprietor was the cousin of the proprietress of our other local resto - and they hadn't spoken for years. Some kind of family feud - we don't know what. There's a lot of that about in small alpine villages. I suspect that if paulio leased a caff and started doing well he could find that local suppliers became extraordinarily hard to get hold of.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've gone off the idea now.
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Tut tut. You need more determination that that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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paulio,
Will you offer a snowheads discount?
If you can take a look at Skifood in Val Thorens I doubt they have a website. Its pretty much a burger bar. He did some awesome steak, sausage or chicken baguettes with chips at a fair price. He was turning them round quick and doing a good trade. He didnt have much seating it was purly take away with a few standing tables. Cheaper than eating at a restaurant for lunch Ideal for some one who wants a good value feed and want to maximise ski time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't want a beefburger. I want a new life.
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paulio, I'd settle for a burger at the moment myself
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You know it makes sense.
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paulio, so get one - there are plenty of business opportunities in resorts at the moment. Just don't expect to ski much or live the kind of turbo-consumer lifestyle so many Brits seem to think is essential.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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paulio, The Flying Squirrel in Plan Peisey is up for sale, I noticed when there last month. That has a good  following & you could pm theflyingsquirrel for details.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| .......It was sold to a Frenchman from elsewhere who had an apartment in the development and the word on the block is that the price - and the "goodwill" - was pretty steep. Anyhow, he made a very bad start, squandered the goodwill rather quickly and is now really struggling, I suspect..... |
Quite. Basically, the goodwill goes with the old proprietors, not the new - who has to earn goodwill, if he deserves it, based on results.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't want to buy anything. I thought I'd said that. Maybe I didn't.
Any case, I've now resigned myself to another 35 years at this desk, before I die, instead.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yep, best time to buy - at the bottom of the market 
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paulio, why not just move your desk to the Alps?
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Hey, at least he didn't say he wanted to become a guide
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Any case, I've now resigned myself to another 35 years at this desk, before I die, instead.
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35 years of flipping omelettes probably wouldn't be much fun anyhow.
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davejsy, what about crêpes and galettes?
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