 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys, my first post (i think) although I have been an avid reader of this site for a few months.
I have decided to (foolishly perhaps) take it upon myself to organise a skii trip for 10 - 20 people. A daunting task for new comer. I decided it would be a good idea to come on here and have a search through the topics, hoping to find a topic listing all the boxes which need to be ticked in order for it to be successful, along with a few tips and do's and don'ts.
If anyone can point me in the right direction I would be most grateful. I also intend to keep a log / blog of organising the whole event in order to help others do the same in the future.
Thanks in advance
Louis
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Louis84, don't think there are any rights or wrongs, it just depends on what your group are looking for. My only bit of advice would be to not be afraid of taking decisions yourself rather than trying to get agreement from everyone in the group. It will be impossible, or at the very least impossibly slow, to get everyone's agreement to every single decision not matter how minor, so don't be afraid to say this is what's happening, take it or leave it.
If you give some idea about what kind of holiday your group might be interested in then you might get some specific advice.
Welcome to snowHeads!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Louis84, Welcome to SnowHeads  After many years of organising groups of friends (very useful experience as it now happens, but didn't feel like that at the time!) I agree completely with rob@rar, it IS impossible to please everyone so you will need to be tough. If you are organising it, doing the research, getting the accommodation etc sorted out, then you are in charge! An idea of everyone' maximum budget is very useful as well as knowing their level of skiing. Nghtlife will be more important to some people, good and convenient skiing more important to others, great instruction to yet others. Bear in mind too, that properties which will house 10 will be easier to find than those for 20, unless you are going to be looking at hotels. I'd suggest you get deposits at the earliest opportunity, as a committment. I've seen groups fall apart before they even get there, when some people change their mind, and the group discounts that you worked so hard to secure, disappear, leaving the rest of the group to find more money. Don't want to scare you, as group ski holidays can be fantastic - and I have been on loads! I did organise them after all! - but it's as well to know the potential pitfalls. Good Luck 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Louis84 wrote: |
| I have decided to (foolishly perhaps) take it upon myself to organise a skii trip for 10 - 20 people |
Hi
Bit of advice, that virtually no one on her will agree with  , go to Thomas Cooks and let them organise it for you. Contrary to popular belief, TO's are normally cheaper, simpler, better, more able to make alterations if things go wrong, etc, etc at organising ski trips. You'll save your self a lot grief and have more fun.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Louis84, Don't forget the primary named person on any package or agent holiday is responsible for the full costs if anything goes wrong. We regularly arrange dive trips, the rules are clear to everyone. If you havn't paid a deposit you are not on the list. If you pay a deposit you are responsible for the full cost of your 'portion' whether you go or not, if you can't go you are responsible for finding a suitable replacement, the replacement, if suitable is responsible for any 'change' costs. Works for us. Also make sure you address sharing issues, boy girl etc as I seem to remember a thread last year about sharing problems. Paul
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Well done for volunteering - now I'd suggest you book one or two rooms in a TO chalet having checked the place is empty for your nearest & dearest then email everyone else and say this is where we're going, pull your finger out and book in the same place. Job done.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Agree with Fatbob. After several trips, some working others failing to materialise i have come to a similar conclusion.
Last march i just booked my own family and a friends family in to our preferred accomodation resort and dates. I then either emailed texted or called all my contacts informing them about my arrangements.
We ended up not going! (not really).
We had people come or go at different days across our trip, some for the whole week. Some in our hotel some staying elsewhere. As we had kids we wanted a pool and things, others just wanted somewhere to crash.
In all we had eighteen of mixed ability and some of the best snow i have ever had the pleasure to ski on.
This will be my preferred method from now on, however i wish you the best of luck in your plans.
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fatbob, totally.
You have many downsides to being organiser. An incomplete list includes;
1. Even with anarchicsaltire's sage rules, you will almost always, in the current climate, get someone out of 20 who has to pull out for "unforeseen, unavoidable" reasons. Who then either don't want to pay or expect their money back.
2. Someone will find fault with something and no matter what it is, it will be your fault.
Provide information. Do one helpful search for flights. Perhaps take a non-binding allocation of rooms at chosen accommodation. But do no more.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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if people drop out at the last minit you might find a good replacement on here
my girlfriend and I took a spare room in a 6 room chalet with people we had never met and had an amazing time
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I actually agree with Wayne that a TO can be easier to manage. I have organised groups in the past and the thing I learnt is to keep the group discounts to one side initially. Tell everyone what the brochure price is. Once I have sent out the email requesting the remaining balance I add in the discount, I may have used some of it for a single supplement. If the numbers have changed and you have lost some discount then people don't necessarily know and are ready to pay the full price, so getting a discount is a bonus. Once this email has gone out - that's it. Any changes and the individual is responsible, whether that incurrs paying a single supplement or even a half place as their dropping out has pushed us down to the lower level of discounts. On two occasions, changes at this point have resulted in us getting a single supplement back. The money then went into a kitty for the beers when we got there.
This year we (I) amd doing DIY. I have booked the chalet on an exclusive basis and made it clear that you have to pay if you drop out. I then sent details to everyone telling them what flights to book. So far so good, just need to sort the transfers nearer the time. Good luck !
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Been in two mahoosive groups, one of 40 for NYE and one of about 80 for one week in st. anton in March.
With the St. Anton group it was just a case of one guy picking the venue / week and then emailing his mates to see who was interested and by lunchtime on the 1st day the email went out he had 30 yesses, and we ended up being spread across 3-4 chalets. We used Scott Travel to do all the bookings/payments etc, and they were very good with such a large group. Pretty sweet hopping on the bus at Friedchickn airport and knowing pretty much everyone on it!
The 40 for NYE @ les arcs was self-organised, but again an early email of 'This venue, this week, and organise yourself into appartments - book thru this company and look to be close to the transarc bubble' worked pretty well too. Options on travel were train or self-drive, or fly/drive but again down to individuals to sort.
With your kind of group size, I would look to try and get everyone into on chalet thru a tour operator - that way
(a) you don't have to worry about catering
(b) it's pretty social and
(c) it helps people find others of their level to ski with, whilst allowing partners to ski with others of their level - the super good girl will be bored spending every day tootling after her bf on blues, when she'd rather be shredding the off-piste. I'm sure there's been many a relationship tested/ended on a skiing holiday thru just that issue.
And don't take any teachers - that way you can avoid 1/2 term when it's crowded, busy and over-priced...
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 16-07-09 14:06; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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I've arranged groups of 9 -12 and agree with the comments about early deposits and discounts. We had one half of a couple split up and not want to go, but we had all the money, we did try to sell it on for them but they were unlucky.
We once met up with a massive group of JBB Manchester staff and customers, that went several times. The two organisers shared some of the discount and they raffled off one free place off at a pre-trip party. Someone got the free place with lots of their money back... a great incentive rather than the £20 off if shared between 25 people...
These days I think I would just book a ski-miquel catered chalet and tell the others the date.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've organised a couple of 8-pax trips where family members let me down, let alone 'friends'.
On the other hand I've a mate who organises 10+ pax ones annually, and they generally go OK. I think it depends on who the people are as to whether you'll be badly dicked around. In the former case I was let down by a surly teenage girl, so no surprise really. In the latter case the people involved are keen, honest sorts of high integrity and rather more maturity than the aforementioned.
The main problem that I can see is that if you do it succesfully once, you'll be expected to keep doing it year on year! And of course you might run into cash flow problems when you have to put 20 return flights on your credit card and so on.
Most importantly really is "be in charge". The family gigs I've organised have been a pain because someone (my dad) insists on questioning every single aspect of what I've organised and checking up that what I'm doing is sensible. Which is not only a bit irritating, but slows the whole process down. "I'm sure you know what you're doing but I'll just double check that the resort will be suitable with my awesome expert skiing friends" etc.
The mate I mentioned though just says, "We're going to WHEREVER on THESE DATES, don't know what the price will be, probably around £350pp but can't guarantee, who's in? Let me know by next Tuesday or you're not coming". Spin forward to the following Wednesday and you get an email going "All booked, you owe me £400". And that's the end of it. Pay up or shut up.
That works pretty well I think, but like I say you need the rest of the group to be on-side.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
The mate I mentioned though just says, "We're going to WHEREVER on THESE DATES, don't know what the price will be, probably around £350pp but can't guarantee, who's in? Let me know by next Tuesday or you're not coming". Spin forward to the following Wednesday and you get an email going "All booked, you owe me £400". And that's the end of it. Pay up or shut up.
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I practice this method using a range of TOs but make two significant modifications. I always use a TO as food for 30 and transfers for 30 are a pain to organise and add an unacceptable amount of money to the proceedings.
One is I always tell the group the brochure price first, hence when it comes in cheaper people are pleased and are more willing to forgive any little slip ups that inevitably happen.
The second is I delegate one or two tasks to friends who are better at cajoling/persuading than I am. Typically this will be getting someone else to rack money out of the TO. They get brought into the "where do we go" side of decision making, usually over a few beers. In return they can be relied on to back me up when things go wrong or point out what worked/didn't work and what we should do differently next year. If you do it all yourself then you are usually the one left without a chair when the music stops.
Finally couples always expect the pick of the rooms. I always roll over on this one, even though I booked the damn thing and would quite fancy the balcony with the en suite.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To add: should have said, both me and my rhetorical friend are 100% DIY bookers. No TO involved. Using a TO would probably significnantly change the dynamic and the strategy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome to
Lots of good advice here, and having organised loads of group trips, I would say that the TO option might be a bit less hassle, but sometimes a DIY can be equally hassle-free because to some extent you can 'control' the hassle, so to speak. Having done both TO and DIY group trips I would say the DIY ones have been better successes because of the type of resort or accommodation we could access privately that TOs don't offer.
So I guess what I am saying is don't write off DIY thinking it is too much hassle, as there are some definite benefits too. It really comes down to exactly what your requirements are, and what option is the best or best value way of meeting them. Sometimes it is TO, sometimes it isn't.
For what it's worth, my MO for DIY group trips goes something like this:
1. Put out initial feelers for interest including suggestion of a suitable date
2. Everyone book the time off work
3. Put together a choice (my own choice) of three suitable resorts that would meet the group's requirements, with ballpark costs and pros and cons
4. Confirm the resort choice and look into accommodation options
5. I would normally just book the accommodation and tell everyone what I had booked, but sometimes if they are vastly different options I would offer the choice
6. At this point, tell everyone to book their own flights and email when they have done so (provide the flight numbers etc.) and collect any deposit you need for accommodation
7. Pay accom deposit
8. Arrange transfer, collect money for it and pay
9. Put together some contact details for people for resort requirements, like equipment hire or tuition. Ask them to book their own but provide a 'matchmaking' service for people who may want shared private lessons with others of a similar level.
10. Collect final money for accomodation and send round final 'newsletter'
I guess if you go down the TO route, you would omit numbers 6 (well they still need to pay deposits but they don't need to book flights), 8 and maybe 9 depending on whether peopel want these things booking in advance or not. This really depends on having a good idea to start with though, of what is required. If you're all complete new skiers then you will benefit more from going with a TO as they should be able to recommend suitable resorts for your group, which you might not already know if you're all new skiers.
11. This is the bit that everyone is going to wet themselves at, but finally, I prepare welcome packs (yes I really do this) with everything people will need: contact numbers of everyone else in the party, contact details for the accommodation, ski school, equipment rental, airport, transfer company, local doctors etc. Maps with all relevant locations in resort marked on, piste map, itinerary etc. This kind of thing probably to everyone else like it's way over the top, but in actual fact it takes about half an hour, and means that when you are on holiday, people will be less high maintenance if they need something and not treat you as much like a holiday rep. I also think if it is me that falls and hits my head on arrival, then the rest of them can firstly (hopefully) get me to a doctor and secondly carry on with their holiday without having to visit me in hospital to get the name of their ski instructor etc.
I would say main rule is don't pay for anything that the group member hasn't already paid you for, and on the flip side, don't look at the stacks of money you have in your bank account and forget you owe it all to the hotel in Switzerland.
Second rule is don't be afraid of making decisions on people's behalf.
Third and most important of all, and this one is easier if you have kept to rules one and two, have a fab time, and don't forget to relax and enjoy yourself!
Have fun and happy sliding!
D
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gorilla, you should get first choice in rooms imo, not just couples. Put your foot down 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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jan, I hope the other couples going with you do not participate in this forum!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wow guys i'm really impressed and thankful at the number of responses already. Being my first time organising i'm going to take the time to at least speak to the TO but also do some research for the DIY route and make my own desicions from there. I'm glad many of you said don't be afraid to make decisions for people. What I dont want to do is tip toe around tryign to please everyone when infact it's my neck and (potentially) some of my money on the line.
In response to Robs first comment about specifics.......
The age of our group is 22-25. Skiers and snowboarders of all different abilities (some havn't even been before, some go every year). I'm looking obviously for a fairly budget resort although I will make sure I know everyones maximum limit. I would also like somewhere with a bit of nightlife as hey, we're still young and kicking it and love to make a bit of noise.....
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Louis84, if you are taking the TO route I would advise you to book an entire chalet. The first trip I organised I was 23, dumb and obnoxious as were my friends. I feel sorry for the people we happened to in the shared chalet. In retrospect the things we found amusing were probably not as funny as we thought they were (although there is still a place in my heart for drinking and public nudity).
Booking the whole thing will also give you a head start in the discount negotiation front as they will then not have to fill three spare places or whatever.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Louis84,
Another idea. Why not as gorilla mentioned just book a TO (I would suggest in a hotel near the piste), then, if the TO has anything about them, just give your mates the group reference and tell them to book under that reference. You'll all be on the same flight (see below, important), you be at dinner together, you’ll ski together, etc. But you will not get any problems if people drop out as it's a group reference (make sure the TO does not have minimum numbers for a group reference). So each person is responsible for paying their own bills whilst maintaining your group’s status.
Another thing that all TO's can do is to source fights from all over the place, even stuff that not shown on the internet - we do it all the time for groups. This means that even if most of you are going from one airport and say a couple wants to depart from another you'll all still pay the same price.
Main thing which I think many people would remind you it's that it's your holiday as well. Make it as simple as you can.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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gorilla, I have already foreseen the possible misery we could cause if we shared a chalet with another group  so if I were to book a chalet it would be one to ourselves, self catering. Although I thought another option would be a hostel? Have any dduuddes on here stayed in a hostel with a group? I like the idea of a chalet / appartment to ourselves though.
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It really depnds on the type of person organising it..some find it a doddle and some a real PITA.
Get concensus of where and what and then fly in a price that is a bit heavy...
That way you will seek out the people that will be the ones to convince.
Remember that they a) trust you to do it, and/or b) they can't be bothered themselves so don't give them too many choices.
It is basically transport and type of accom and be realistic with the price..
If they pick a very popular resort at a popular time, you will pay top $... there is not much way round that.
My focus would tend to be get a decent price in a decent hotel ... not chalet unless the bedrooms are pretty similar..someone always gets the short straw and this is a potential problem.
I'd pick a 4* or somesuch and then you can rest assured that the hotel should at least be nice... but if you don't have that budget get everyone onboard for the choice of accom..
For your group...having just read your updates..I'd be looking at Andorra for the nightlife or Austria for a good all round holiday.
My pref would be for the latter as if you are taking newbies and couples then what you have to try and head off is problems with women not taking to it..so make sure they have a good hotel and less to moan about..
Please the women and you are half way there... get that wrong and you can be stuffed not matter what else you have done right
Start with Soll late Jan or early Mar..and don't look much further as they seem to do nice hotels for the price. Ok, it is a walk to the nursery slopes but you'll get that alot of places anyway...and ski-in ski-out is wasted on people who can't ski.........
Sallbach is another choice..............
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You know it makes sense.
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| JT wrote: |
| Start with Soll late Jan or early Mar |
Agreed, or you could look at one of the big french resort val d'isere, if you can get it cheap enough, would be a good all round choice
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Louis84, you might struggle to find a self-catering chalet for up to 20 people - and you will need to be very sure that your group will all co-operate with end of stay cleaning etc (they might have to be prepared to forfeit a sizeable deposit unless the place is left in a good state). I have organised up to 12 self catering, with one "room" responsible for shopping and cooking for the group one evening a week, and a last night eating out. However, we were mostly old and boring, with the 6 "lead cooks" more than capable of producing a good meal for 12 and clearing up after ourselves. You might also need to decide in advance on a policy for sharing costs, buying and consuming beers, etc. We were lucky with the place we rented, which had decent cooking equipment for large numbers, and a good size kitchen. some accommodation doesn't - and it takes considerable skill to produce reasonable food for large numbers in a very small space with a couple of blunt knives and a chopping board which looks like half a dozen wild boars have been butchered on it simultaneously.
If the group can afford it, a catered chalet to yourselves might make for a more relaxed holiday all round.
On the other hand, if the budget is tighter, and you're interested in hostels, you could do a lot worse than look at the centres in France run by UCPA, which offer "all in" holidays including food, lift pass, equipment and tuition. Some of the Centres (e.g. Flaine) offer double rooms rather than dorms, at a small supplement. There's a British outfit called Action Outdoors which organises holidays to the UCPA centres, including travel from the UK but you can also book direct yourselves. It's probably one of the cheapest options, and the people I know of who have used them (including my daughter, who's been once, and my son in law who's been twice) reckoned they were fantastic value.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
2. Someone will find fault with something and no matter what it is, it will be your fault.
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Agreed 
Also if you do go to a lot of trouble and spend time trying to find somewhere most people won't appreciate. People who have never organised a holiday think you should be able to spend 30 minutes on the internet and find a lovely apartment, in the centre of a popular resort, with the exact room configurations you need for a reasonable price. They don't understand this mythical apartment doesn't exist.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Try for multiple apartments in same building.
I oganized self catering trip to Oz-en -oisans ( Alp dHuez) for 14 ,
we got 3 apatments in Chalet des Neiges, and took turns per apartment to do dinner. As you are a party on you own, dont need to go out to have great time.
Important to make sure of number of bedrooms and not beds, nobody wants to sleep in lounge, also you will need extra space in France.
www.caletdesneiges.com they were vey good with helping without exta charge from TO
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Louis84, I too would look at Soll for your group. A big area (for Austria), nightlife is good there. Austria is cheaper than France and if this is a consideration it must be considered!
The problem we always encountered with booking a group holiday for the same number of people as you have in your group is that the TO will not have the required number of rooms in each establishment. We alway had to get a request for allocation from the hotel, suprisingly most TO's only have a handful of rooms. To get an allocation from the hotel you have to normally book early which means you will not be able to negotiate!
You may be able to negotiate with an independant operator for a chalet. Apartments could be a way to go, but remember the French have a sense of humour when they indicate how many persons an apartment can fit!!!!
Soll is a place I took my first group to. We had about 20 persons and at that stage went through a TO (Crystal, from memory).
Have fun but remember that you are the one under pressure. Once you have decided the week to go, give a choice of 3 places, at different price brackets and get everyone over for a pint or two and make a decision. BEFORE you book with a TO get a non refundable deposit from your mates. You may find that some of your friends will let you down.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My best beloved booked organised for 12 people this past season has 2 bits of advise.
1. be up front with people about what the costs are going to be, flights, accomodation, transfers, rental, lift passes etc. and getthem commit to it with a sizable deposit that they are responsible for if they back out, and you can use to start booking things with.
2. set up a honking great spreadsheet and make sure you keep tabs on where the money is coming from and going to. If your friends are anything like ours they'll hand over the cash in dribs and drabs depending on pay-days, or 1 person will pay for 2 or 3 others at once.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| set up a honking great spreadsheet |
Yes. This is absolutely 100% essential. Good advice.
Inevitably you get weird situations like couples paying unequal amounts of money which add up to the total for two people and so on, and it can get complicated.
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One other thing which was good for us. If your group was like ours, it was a selection of friends and friends-of-friends. It's good to get together in person a couple of times before going away. As we had novices who needed kit, we (almost) all met up at the Ski Show at Earls Court and again for a beer and a meal shortly before going. Helps people connect names to faces, particularly if they're going to be sharing an apartment or going to ski school together.
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If you end up using a TO, make sure that you are aware of how they want paying. Previously we've always got people to send in individual cheques to the organiser, made payable to the TO, and the organiser just sent them in in a big bunch. But last year, the TO said they no longer accepted cheques, and wanted one payment for the whole £20k balance by a single debit card from the organiser - they wouldn't even accept a BACS transfer!
If you are *not* using a TO, make sure you don't end up falling foul of the package tour regulations which say that anyone organising tours on a "regular" basis must be bonded (or equivalent) - but they don't define "regular".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Problem with the honking big spreadsheet was it took me a while to understand it in the end and I'd written the thing!
We were very restricted on the overall budget and the biggest headache was choosing the resort - we spent sometime researching non-mainstream resorts - or rather not mainstream by UK TO's which I think greatly reduced the costs. We booked 3 apartments directly with the accomodation agency but used only the bedrooms not the lounge / hallways etc so using a TO we'd have got massively stung for underoccupancy supplements.
For transfers, we used a local company found on the web - they were fantastical - communicative, punctual, helpful when we had a problem and I don't think they were expensive for the service received (thoroughly recommend them - Marion and her team from Geneva Airport Transfers). We were in Samoens which was a short airport transfer which made a big difference to potential costs. We also opted (because of our relatively near homes) to do a transfer from home to the airport each end too so we all made it door to door safely and no-one missed the flight. Well someone did but that's another story altogether!
As Pam W mentioned, we shared cooking with each of the apartments doing it on a night or two and on the last night we made our own arrangements - dramatically reduced food costs. The nice thing about the seperate apartments was we weren't in each others pockets all the time too.
Word of warning on the DIY option - we started booking in September and by the time final balances came round in late Jan / early Feb the euro exchange rate had done us no favours.
I'd recommend the DIY route IF you have the time involved to keep on top of everything. Overall I think we had a good value week in nice apartments in a lovely resort with fab skiing, I am sure I had change from £500-550 for the week including lift pass.
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FAQ
