 Poster: A snowHead
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Trying to decide where to go next year and wondered what other people would chose.
Looks like we can get 2 weeks away in January so thought we'd go to North America. The 2 choices we've come up with are 10 nights in Jackson Hole (£850pp flights and accom) or 2 weeks in Canada staying at Jasper for a week then Banff the following week (£2150 ish 2 people incl flights, accom, passes) with trips to Kicking Horse and Panorama (extra £ ).
Where would you go?
Has anyone been to there resorts in January, just how cold is it?
(2 of us, both intermediate/advanced. Ski owt pisted, done a bit of off piste the last couple of holidays but not very good at it. Try but fail at moguls. getting better slowly...)
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Nik wrote: |
(2 of us, both intermediate/advanced. Ski owt pisted, done a bit of off piste the last couple of holidays but not very good at it. Try but fail at moguls. getting better slowly...)
Thanks |
Jackson will test you, given your description of level. You'll also likely get much more fresh snow, and have the pow magnet of Grand Targhee not far away.
Both will be cold, Canadian Rockies likely colder, but it can be chilly in both. Expect -20s on occasions, some days warmer, and maybe some cooler.
The Canadian Rockies are good value in January simply because it is cold and doesn't snow much (too dry/cold). And I mean very little indeed - lots of hardpack pistes for fast cruising. Fun though, and stunningly beautiful tho.
So if you want your best chances of having a true North American powder experience, given these choices, go to Jackson. It's no competition.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Honestly, given what you post about your standard, which sounds like you want to stay on pisted runs, I would say Jackson Hole would not be suitable.
cheers,
Greg
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For piste lovers, Canada.
Once you're proficient off-piste, Jackson will suit better. The more proficient you're off-piste, the better Jackson Hole becomes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For the variety of ski areas Canada. So many choices so little time.
For the pow and piste as the G man mentioned Targhee, it has nice groomers and is a great bet for learning to ski the fluff, the slopes are just the right pitch. JH has plenty of variety for all types of skiers and, they do a good job of maintaining the groom including during the day, I've seen them regrooming main runs midday to keep the blue run skiers happy.
Cold is just a function of winter you can always add more insulation on those -20 days or more stops for hot drinks. The slopes are less crowded at least.
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| abc wrote: |
For piste lovers, Canada.
Once you're proficient off-piste, Jackson will suit better. The more proficient you're off-piste, the better Jackson Hole becomes. |
there's some quite wonderful, Jackson-style off-piste at Lake Louise aqnd Sunshine. It rarely fills in before Feb/March tho - which is the time to go to the Canadian Rockies if you want good snow, on and off pitse.
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Thanks for the advice guys.
Still not sure!
The prospect of some powder is very appealing. Has anyone who doesn't consider themselves to be an expert been to Jackson? How did you find it? We hadn't planned on hiring a car, is there a bus to Grand Targhee or is car hire necessary?
We have been to Banff before in late March and I think we skied all the pistes in Lake Louise and Sunshine they'd had no snow for a while though so hard packed runs all the way. We thought a week in Jasper and a few days at other resorts would make a nice change and give us chance to see more of the area.
We'd like somewhere we can try off piste some more, but still retreat back to the pistes. Unfortunately my job restricts me to travel in January and April which may not be the best times for this.
I'm sure it'll be great where ever and the one we don't pick can wait til next year...
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Jackson Hole has plenty of easier runs I understand to flatter the fly-in domestic tourists so I wouldn't worry about it being gnarly only. Targhee is apparently gentler & Snow King in the town of Jackson also easy.
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im looking at jackson hole for a few days early march
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Nik, The joke used to be the Powder doesn't get skied off at Targhee it rots and while there are more skiers nowadays it still gets plenty of Pow and the ungroomed runs with a fair amount of fresh are quite fun, it's a great place to learn to ski the fresh. Yes JH has many blue runs and the gondola can be a good bet. Don't know about a shuttle between JH and the Ghee it's been a few years.
With the El Nino going strong I think JH is a better bet than Banff, but I have bad luck heading to Banff usually it's thin and I'm skiing rocks, sticks, and ice.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes, there's a bus going to Targhee from JH, run by the same bus company that take you from the airport to JH village. It's not free though. Also the distance between the two are long enough I couldn't see myself doing more than a day (or two at most).
While not expert, I'm reasonably comfortable off-piste. From my prospective, un-pisted runs and off-piste at JH seem pretty quick to get moguled, majority of them pretty BIG (VW sized). So anyone who's not somewhat proficient at mogul might find it rather limiting for a whole week. If you stay only on pisted runs, you'll be cruising the same piste many many times.
For dabbling off-piste when condition allowes, I think both JH and Canada would do equally well. It's on days you don't feel like attacking moguls that I think Canada have the edge.
April should be a good time for Canada.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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dabbling off piste in the Banff region in January is likely to elicit serious ski damage unless it's an epic year. They are rare. prepare sharp edges for solid groomers and manmade snow.
Jackson has heaps of long blue and double blue pistes (they'd be marked black at most Euro resorts I suspect). I've been twice with a very mixed ability group, and intermediate skiers found it fine. They even cruised off the top of the tram on 3rd day - it's really not that steep on the peak. There's a lot of 'fear' peddled about Jackson which is unwarrented. Everything said about Targhee is true 
An option I'm considering at Jackson is staying at Snow King. Bus to Jackson, Targhee and Snowking across road, and 6 blocks from down town Jackson, which is superb at night. Bus to Jackson is 20 mins in morning, so better than Banff even if not 100% perfect. We'd be there in January, it's a good time to as its not immensely busy/expensive and cold keep snow in prime nick as long as you get top ups every few days. Which is normal ...
Actually have no idea how El Nino effects Banff region or Jackson - any experts out there? I do know not all El Nina years are bad'uns, just like last year's La Nina wasn't much above average in most places.
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Jackson and Targhee are neutral to El Nino effects to slightly positive to a El Nino but Banff and the PNW are not so well off, last year was actually a neutral year but 07/08 was a incredible La Nina for us in the PNW.
gortonator,I have no knowledge about El Nina sounds like a crossdresser. 
May be heading south myself midwinter given our winter forecast. Hoebacks anyone?
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You know it makes sense.
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OK. If some of you are saying Jackson won't be suitable and others say there'll be no off piste to practice on in Banff do you have any other suggestions? Still looking at North America as we've got chance to go for up to 2 weeks.
Thanks for all the advice
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Nik, Don't write off Jackson. As I said, my extremely intermediate wife and friends love the place and they rarely go off groomed except when conditions are excellent. The groomers are some of the best around, and its an epic, fun cowboy town.
Alternatives - consider Park City, which gives easy access to PCMR, Deer Valley and the Canyons (excellent bus system between 3 on lift pass), apres is excellent in the DMZ (de-mormonized zone) in Park City, and you should be getting good snow by mid-January. Sure others will suggest Breckenridge, but that's basically the Benidorm of North American skiing 
California typically does very well in El Nino years, so the whole Tahoe area might be a good option too.
pinhead, El Nina is the metrosexual half brother, responsible for very light snow on no base and wild decadent parties everywhere
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Poster: A snowHead
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Nik,
I've visited Park City (Utah) and Winter Park (Colorado) in Januarys past, and found conditions in both excellent, with fresh pow and good coverage everywhere. Park City accommodation can get booked up pretty quickly in January, if your trip coincides with the Sundance Film Festival, but the corollary of this is that the slopes are relatively empty, since all the hotel residents are in the cinema.
Can't comment from an informed standpoint on the El Nino effect, but anecdotally, there was an El Nino in 2000-2001, and it was the January of 2001 I was in Park City.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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abc, Fortunately there's lots of info on US snowfall available, and the 'bible' is http://webpages.charter.net/tcrocker818/.
Some good detailed stuff there, and some of recommendations for best time to ski in California are January. If you check out the 2008-09 season analysis and the reports from January, you at least get a feel for what last year was like compared to averages. Of course, this year might be quite different!
But anyway, if you can't be bothered trawling around, here's some extracts, which are borne out by my experiences (I've been to Lake Louise and Jackson many times):
Jackson Hole Best time to ski: January/early February for snowfall and to avoid warm weather exposures, average snowfall 373 inches
Lake Louise Best time to ski: February/March for maximum coverage, average snowfall 161 inches per year
and some quotes on Lake Louise:
1. Go in mid-to-late season, February to April, when coverage is at a maximum. The colder weather is then an advantage, preserving the snow better than at areas farther south. Sun intensity at Louise in early April is similar to Colorado in mid-February.
2. If you're not going until February at the earliest, why not wait until after Christmas to make reservations? This way you can avoid the worst years, when Lake Louise will be very rocky. Look for a reported mid-mountain base depth of at least 5 feet to ensure adequate coverage of the expert terrain.
3. For those who still want to reserve early, consider that the Banff region averages 120% of normal snow in La Nina years (most recent 2000, 1999 and 1997). Conversely, El Nino snowfall averages only 85% of normal (1998 and 1993 were particularly poor).
and on Jackson:
Jackson Hole is perhaps the most misunderstood area in North America with regard to snow conditions. Destination skiers often fear Wyoming’s cold weather, though average temperatures are only 4 degrees colder than Vail and 8 degrees colder than Aspen. Jackson gets somewhat more wind than most areas in the Rockies, but less than the more exposed areas on the West Coast (Whistler, Bachelor, Squaw, Mammoth). The Sublette and Thunder chairs are more likely to close than the tram in high winds.
The main concern for visiting skiers should be Jackson’s southeast exposure, which can turn powder to unskiable crud in just a few hours of 20+ degree sunny weather. The lower half of Rendezvous Mt. below the Sublette and Thunder chairs has outstanding powder skiing but very difficult conditions if it hasn’t snowed recently. The Apres Vous lift faces directly south, so its off-piste terrain is similarly unreliable although there are several groomed runs. Fortunately Jackson gets lots of snow, so the chances for its legendary powder are excellent during the midwinter period of late December to mid-February.
It takes quite a bit of snow to get the steep terrain covered, so Jackson usually opens the first or second week of December. Snowfall is high enough that the whole mountain opens around Christmas in most seasons. January has the highest average snowfall and is also best recommended for preserving the snow
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Nik, I'm still saying Jackson can be great fun and the Mangy Moose manages to be a very nice apres ski spot, and you do have Targhee too as Gortonator and I have both mentioned.
Otherwise with an El Nino it's California although I've not skied the known areas, but with Mammoth and the Tahoe area there's plenty of skiing to choose from.
gortonator, I believe I've skied those El Nina condtions at LL, with no metrosexual love, unless leaving ptex across the Mtn is the love. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pinhead, yep, i've been twice in January and Lake Louise was sketchy, and in March 2001 (El Nino year) off-piste was completely unskiable. Sunshine was respectable that year, you had to avoid stuff but as long as you paid your repair bill, it wasn't too bad.
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I've done Jackson Hole 3 times for 14 days and always the first 2 weeks of Feb.
It has snowed. 12 days out of 14, then 8 out of 14 and then 10 out of 14 days. (2001-2005-2008)
EPIC.... Japser a totally different type of place. No way near as much snow.. colder than Jackson and pretty boring IMO.
Where am I going this winter? Jackson Hole 14 days 30th Jan !!
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Thanks again for the advice.
A bit off topic, but as in the states they ask everyone for id, what does anyone take? I've had to use my passport but wory about losing it?
Ski Club suggests an International Driving Permit. Any other suggestions?
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I've always just used a passport for checking into hotels etc & on the very rare occasion a bar or liquor store has mistaken my youthful good lucks for actual youth.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lucky for me I get id'd everywhere! Even in the uk. 30 next month aswell, I get to see alot of embarassed checkout staff when they realise I'm alot older than them! It becomes a pain when skiing as I have to take my passport out on the slopes too incase I want to sample the apres ski.
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Your driver's license will probably do.
I'm assuming it's in English...?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'll be heading out to Jackson Hole 10th Jan for the remainder of the coming season.
My first time there and travelling hans solo; so if anyone else is about, give me a shout (please?!).
Cheers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I just thought I'd throw out another vote for Jackson Hole-I'm not amazing off piste, and prefer to stick to the piste/side of piste, and I loved it! The town (Jackson itself) is a riot-stayed there both winter and summer, where I nannied for a lovely family, and had an amazing time!! An ex boyfriend of mine heads up the kids ski school on Snow King, and the kids I nannied out there for skiied all week every week in the winter-the youngest 2 are only 5 and find plenty to ski, they are good but I doubt they are dropping down couloirs yet!!!
On the ID front, I used my driving licence at the bar there and it was accepted no problems-its just a normal UK one.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 9-09-09 15:03; edited 1 time in total
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| Nik wrote: |
| OK. If some of you are saying Jackson won't be suitable and others say there'll be no off piste to practice on in Banff do you have any other suggestions? Still looking at North America as we've got chance to go for up to 2 weeks. |
Big Sky could be an interesting alternative: it's a big area so has loads of groomed runs and some fairly straightforward introductions to off-piste stuff. It's the place where I first became confident on powder - not least because the runs are so deserted that fresh snow can stay untracked on the pistes for a couple of days. And the lack of people means the moguls that you dread won't be an issue.
I don't know about snow cover in January, though. I've only visited in February, but I've heard that the hill's so rocky that it needs serious cover for the off-piste stuff to get going. Anyone have more experience?
If you do go to Wyoming or Montana, make sure you arrange a day trip to Yellowstone. No matter how good the skiing is, Yellowstone will be the highlight of your trip.
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You know it makes sense.
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Was actually only just looking of Big Sky, I'd never heard of it before a few weeks ago so if any one else has experience of this resort in January please share it.
Will defo do a trip to Yellowstone after reading other peoples regrets about not going when they were in Jackson.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| abc wrote: |
| Your driver's license will probably do. |
Don't be so sure! We had a whole world of hassle when we went out for beers in North Conwy, New Hampshire and tried to use UK driver's licenses as ID. The only ones they accepted to even let us into the place were US or Canadian licenses, otherwise it was passports all the way.
True, a pain to carry your passport around on the hill, but the only way if you wanted a beer...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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EvilWeevil, grey hair and looking like an old git works for me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| EvilWeevil, grey hair and looking like an old git works for me. |
not even those work in places that proudly display 'we ID everyone'. And they mean it ...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not been asked since 1991 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We've never been asked for ID in Canada and we've been going since the group was in it's mid to late twenties. (Ten years ago).
Not really a good advertisement for how we all look!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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SnowboardVicky, Canadians not as anal as Americans about alcohol
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gortonator, That'll explain it - Feel better now - thought it was the ever increasing grey hairs!
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FAQ
