 Poster: A snowHead
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Can anyone recommend a transceiver I won’t to do more off piste this season. Never used one before so it needs to be simple to use 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Everything you wanted to know about avalanche transceivers:
http://www.beaconreviews.com/transceivers/
Everyone will always say it - 'cos it's true - practice, practice and practice again. This is the most important factor in your effectiveness in a real situation.
Also make note of the best way of digging. Research has found that the fastest method is to dig away a 'V' shape downhill of the probe that marks the victim. One person should be at the apex, with two behind him with enough room so that everyone can swing their shovel cleanly. The idea is to 'conveyor' the snow away down the hill and not lift it out of the hole. Rotate positions every 2 minutes - I think.
If I find a reference to this I'll post it.
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Glen Charman, do a search as loadsa stuff has been posted re this. Don't forget a shovel & a probe too.
Whichever make/model you get the one rule that you must follow is to get plenty of practice with it so you'll either need access to another transceiver or visit one of the transceiver 'parks' that are now in many resorts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Glen Charman, what Fattes13 says. I have the mammut Barryvox which is also easy to use - but has largely been superseded by the Pulse - which will be my next transceiver.
At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, there are three other things you need - probe, shovel and TRAINING. The transceiver bit is probably the easy bit. What to do to start a search, how to use a probe, even shovelling has a definite technique and strategy. But most importantly how to try and avoid avalanches in the first place. Probably you know this already.
I am not an expert btw - and I suspect some experts will be along.
[edit - looks like they have arrived!]
Here is the how to dig thing I think Altis means
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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stoatsbrother, well done!
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BCA tracker 2 has been promised for a few years now. But they seem to be fine tuning it before release. Anyone know any more about it coming out this year? I'm waiting to see before I shop but will be buying some kind of transceiver at the start of this season.
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IMHO the Pulsse wins every time over the BCA Tracker. It's way better when you get down to the fine searching.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tracker or Pulse IMV are the only ones to consider for newbies.
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The Pulse. No question in my mind. I did a mountain safety course last season, with transceiver searches every day for a week, single and multiple burials. It was obvious that the Pulse allowed victims to be located more quickly that any of the other transceivers being used that week. It' a bit more expensive, but the premium is justified IMO.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, FlyingStantoni, I presume this is because of the 3rd antenna. This will be a feature on the new tracker if it is ever launched.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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FlyingStantoni, agreed. I have a Tracker - but having seen a mate search successfully with a Pulse when I was having a problem, I'd buy a pulse if I were buying now.
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My brother has the pulse and i've heard good things about it but what about that ortovox s2 (i think thats the right name) with the screen that actually shows where the people are buried. If it works surely, that would be the easiest way of finding people.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have a DTS, 2 old anaolgues and an S2 and have used a pulse
Get the S2, or a pulse, they both blow the tracker away for ease of use and speed. You could give an S2 to a novice who had never used one before and they could d a search. Its idiot proof. Also at a great price to SCGB members at lockwoods
As a test I gave my wife (non skier) the dts and S2 to find one of the anologue in the back garden. DTS, she didnt have a clue and five minutes later she was still wandering. Gave her the S2, she opened it just like her mobile phone and with 3 seconds she was saying "its over there" and within 30 seconds had found the flower pot it was in. case closed
Add the second anaologue into the mix and the S2 shows both clearly. you could almost send some folks to probe 20m over there while you track the first beacon
The newer version of the Ortovox S2 has much better rejection of interferance as well
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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they're all a bit pricey aint they? and the point about practice without a second unit is a good un. are there any out there with separate transmit / receive units?? (ie so you could make a single purchase and practice all you wanted). Daft question?? drive up the price even more??
I work on avoidance first and foremost - to the point where i fanny out of certain days / routes / conditions etc., and wouldnt / wont buy one until there is a far better priced option(s) and certainly an easier way to practice
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Poster: A snowHead
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barry, better carry on avoiding certain great routes/conditions then 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My kids, aged 11 and 14, both have BCA Trackers and practice with them regularly. They learnt to use them very quick, and don't tend to have any problems using them at Avalanche Camps. So if you're looking for an easy-to-use ARVA, the Tracker is child's play.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I just bought some old analogue units off ebay to act as practice targets
I find one tied to the dog when I take him for a walk at virginia waters a great practice. The S2 is quite capable of tracking a mobile target. the DTS cant
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
interesting question though - thinking of avvy category, how many increments upwards would folk go out in once there wearing a beacon??
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Good question and I don't know as I almost always wear one so don't often have that dilemma...
I knew a ski instructor in Engelberg who never wore one... on the basis that she wouldn't be out there in those conditions anyway and the fact that she knew the avi history of the terrain she skied.
She made a case and knew her lines and that is fine if on home territory... for her.... does kind of rule out venturing too far elsewhere where you don't have this comfort tho..
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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barry, you can buy transmit only units. They're designed (I think) for guide clients and kids where there's no expectation of them usefully helping in a search.
I can't remember the name of the unit, but SMALLZOOKEEPER sells them.
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barry if you really can't find anyone to practice with then chances are you're screwed anyway. I'm sure you appreciate that there are no levels of "officially" assessed risk across an area that make a particular slope safe or unsafe.
Re JT's instructor I sort of get it but its a poor example to set and a bit selfish as she wouldn't be in a situation where she could first assist someone who didn't know which aspect of an adjacent slope was overstepping the mark even if she was skiing something safe.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 1-07-09 0:12; edited 1 time in total
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fatbob, ya fair point, i generally tour alone anyways so am humped either way, still though - it'd be nice to locate my remains for return to sender
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A lot of the larger resorts have practice areas so you can play to your hearts content doing multiple burial senarios.
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fatbob, it was quite educational in its own way... we were on Titlis and she was pointing out all the terrain traps, the flow lines, the esxposed bits... and we never went anywhere near them.
How skilled she was, I don't really know, but she knew which had historical slides ect etc.
We didn't do any one of the lines that we would have looked at when I went there with other groups, so that was the down-side...
safe but a bit sedate..., IMV
Anything over a certrain pitch will have a risk factor in certain conditions...it is down to your group to assess it and decide...as we all do, in one way or another..
I do like the look of the S2... and now it has had a year under its belt, it would be my 1st choice as a replacement. I like the way an M2 will hug your body and never seems to be a point of injury if you fall... unless a few chest narness... thery look like rib breakers to me ...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I am now wondering do I need to own a transceiver as I would be with a guide / instructor or insight of the piste. I have only had 2 days off piste lesions and out of that ½ a day must have be spent on piste waiting for others and polling. With the instructor we was all give the kit
But had no training with a transceiver.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I am now wondering do I need to own a transceiver as I would be with a guide / instructor or insight of the piste. I have only had 2 days off piste lesions and out of that ½ a day must have be spent on piste waiting for others and polling. With the instructor we was all give the kit
But had no training with a transceiver.
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Glen Charman, if you are always going to be issued with a transceiver when you go off piste, then for your own safety, you don't need your own. But if you would hope to be able to assist if one of your friends got buried then you need to be familiar with how to operate it in receive mode - because the set is the one you always used, and you have practiced using it with others. So I think off-piste skiers should own their own beeps.
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You know it makes sense.
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The S2 is quite capable of tracking a mobile target. the DTS cant
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Dont think to many avi victims end up as mobile targets?
Guess it is a good way to practice though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| barry wrote: |
| fatbob, ya fair point, i generally tour alone anyways so am humped either way, still though - it'd be nice to locate my remains for return to sender |
No problem, just wear Recco reflectors.
Great for locating dead bodies.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles, All my mates pleaded poverty and I don’t need one of them at that price and I’ve got a recco
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Glen Charman, Get some training vital to operating the kit and very important
Reco are designed to send bodies home to your loved ones so they dont have to wait till the spring thaw 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Transceivers are expensive and some of your mates will say that the chances are minimal.
Couple of things to consider...
I'd rather have a transceiver and never need it than ever be in a position of not having one and needing it.
When you're buried under a couple of feet of snow how much would you pay for a transceiver?
£200/£300 pounds is not a lot when you consider how much you spend on all your other kit.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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is Recco mobile? ie can they find you way out of bounds? dont think it's used widely where i tend to ski!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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barry, some places have helicopter-mounted recco detectors but, as people have said, if you are in the sticks it will most likely be a body recovery job
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| barry wrote: |
| is Recco mobile? ie can they find you way out of bounds? dont think it's used widely where i tend to ski! |
the recco is purely a reflector, the resorts need to have a hand held (pretty big) unit and afor wide search area a helicopter mounted unit.....it is and has always been known as a corpse finder, by the time the alert is raised then they get to where ever you are.... chances are it is way too late
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| Arno wrote: |
| barry, some places have helicopter-mounted recco detectors but, as people have said, if you are in the sticks it will most likely be a body recovery job |
The other problem as I am sure you know, is that you cannot guarantee that a helicopter is going to be available for the search.
Lots of us ski in poor visibility (with guides in my case) and if something happened there is no way a helicopter could take to the air, so the main chance is self rescue from the skiing group.
Then there may be situations where it is difficult for a helicopter to set down such as locations within trees, couloirs etc.
If weather conditions are good then there is always the sod's law chance that two accidents occur within a short time of each other and obviously a helicopter cannot be in two places at once.
I wonder also how many people could accurately describe their location if they were the one who had to make the emergency call.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To recap the discussion a little. The newer 3 antenna beacons are a lot easier to use than the Tracker and will be quicker for the casual user. They are also much easier to use in multiple burial mode. If you are buying now then get one of them. I have not used the newer Ortovox or the Pieps DSP but have used the Pulse for two years now and am beginning to feel comfortable with it.
That said, the main limiting factor regarding speed of use with the thing is not the device, it is how fast you move in the primary phase i.e. from things going wrong through to you getting a signal. This has obvious implications for the kind of practice you will want to do.
I think there are a few points where Recco has more utility than a transceiver but these are few and far between and occur when the fastest thing that is going to get to you will be the heli. I missed a large serac fall off the Rateau this year by about 10 minutes. Obviously the chances of surviving the initial catastrophic event would have been very low but given that the fall would likely have nailed the entire party the only realistic rescue option would have been the mountain rescue helicopter. Other than that I'm inclined to agree with previous comments regarding Recco's efficacy.
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on the subject of aviodance (which can be dismissed by "experts" on here sometimes), and forecasting, take a look at the following from the real experts - think I posted this on here before. Great quiz and very very informative (i got flattend well before the end )
http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/avalanche.asp
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FAQ
