Should mountaincraft be an essential part of ski school?

A snowHead

Reading about the fatalities from avalanches on this site and others makes quite depressing reading. It is the inevitability of such fatalities following certain snow conditions Sad

I was just wondering whether everyone attending ski schools should be forced ( for one hour ) to learn basic safety in the mountains. It could be done at the end of the week, prior to a certificate awarding ceremony ( to ensure that this theoritical session is not skipped ).

I am not suggesting that it would prevent all such accidents, but it would raise awareness of the dangers. When I learned to ski 10 years ago ( in Italy ) no mention was made of this knowledge. Yes, the majority of my skiing has been on-piste. As would be the case with the majority of people, I guess.

Perhaps a lower insurannce premium could be available for people who have passed the course upon production of a certificate.

Views please or should the " laissez faire " situation persist?

A snowHead

I don't think that you can force people to learn something that they don't want to. The logistics would also be a nightmare, what language would the talks be given in? If you sit through a talk in a language that you don't understand do you still get a certificate?

It amazes me that people don't understand that quite apart from the dangers of avalanches, the mountains can be quite dangerous places. The weather can change rapidly, as can the temperature. It doesn't take too much to become lost, even in a resort that you know well. I think that people assume that you can get there on a package holiday, people will look out for you. Thank god that the resorts take the opinion that if you choose to ski, then you assume most of the inherent risk yourself, and that people are quite capable of making decisions themselves. The responsibility for an individual's safety has to remain with the individual IMHO.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Kramer, well put, I agree. I guess the thorny issue is third-party liability, but I still lean to the view that compulsory lessons would be a bit of a logistical nightmare, and might not deter all those with a tendency to irresponsibility.

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I'm not sure about teaching everyone "mountaincraft", but I do think that all snow users should be made aware of the Responsibility Code at the START of a ski trip. Many more accidents (and near misses) occur on slope than do due to avalanches, and most could be prevented if people knew and obeyed the responsibility code.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Wear The Fox Hat, most of the tour operators that I've been with recently have made people aware of the code at the start of the trip, it's just that people don't bother listening.

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oohh, I see that this is nicely shaping up to be a debate Cool

Whilst I can see that personal responsibility is primary to an individual, I also think that more should be done to educate people of basic mountain use safety. The ski schools, because of commercial/linguistic pressures will cut these corners if they can get away with it. You could argue that people will continue on to behave irresponsibilly or ignore advice but that IMO should not overide the need to properly educate people in the safety and dangers aspect of going up into the mountains.

Ski schools tend to concentrate in learning the practical and fun aspects of skiing, and probably perhaps of the linguistic problems, put a lesser emphasis of safety and responsibility in the mountains. Ski schools could carry a kite mark " approved safety ski school " or whatever. A 1/2 hour video, in the language of your preference, could be played at the beginning/end of the week. Probably would need government, possibly Local in the allocation and approval of licences, to succeed. If there are any French bureaucrats reading this thread ..... I can see them drafting the relevant legislation. Which would be not too different from say the London black cab licences issued by the Carriage Office.

Think of the savings in hospital resources, lower insurance premiums hopefully and more responsible skiers/boarders ( mostly ) on the mountains. Normally I would not argue for state involvement as private business can usually do better in most cases. But the net benefit to the public in this case would seem to out-weigh the private benefit of laissez faire. The smoking ban in Ireland is a case in point - but that's another argument for another thread snowHead

After all it is free

BTW - governments of english-speaking nations hate to meddle if private business can and is doing a reasonable job of protecting consumer interests. They tend to meddle only at the last minute, when private business is clearly failing to do so. Dunno about Continental governments (would think the French one at least would be a bit more pro-active). I'm with hibernia on this one - protect away, o' governments of Alpine nations!

Last time I travelled on a resort transfer coach we were shown a video of a begginer learning to ski. perhaps they could show us one on mountain safety and avalnche awareness .

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I lose count of how many times and in how many places people are told not to go off piste without a guide. People don't do it out of ignorance, it's through stupidity. If you hire a guide, or join a guided group, mountain safety and avalanche awareness is always part of the introductory lessons. If people choose not to listen, or lie about their competence, then it's their own fault.

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I don't think you can force ski schools to teach mountain safety/awareness, but all ski teachers should, at the very least teach some. Unfortunately many skiers don't want to know all the interesting bits about snow conditions, avalanches, skier safety etc. I think it's urban life making most people feel that we've beaten nature and are now in charge. I wonder if the Tsunami in SE Asia will change peoples' feelings on this?

Actually I do personally try to make sure all my students have some basic knowledge, and if possible point out a (previously fallen) avalanche, explain a little about the stability of snowpack etc. Also weather conditions .........

However hibernia, 's idea about a kite mark would just mean that all independants wouldn't be able to qualify. How would we pay the required amount for the subscription? OK for big ski schools, but little operators? Then we wouldn't be able to attract clients because our(and their) insurance costs would be too high.

Help!!

Should mountaincraft be an essential part of ski school?

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