 Poster: A snowHead
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a while back at least one member on here asked me by PM when Andi from Alpine McCannix was next running a skier balance day at my office...the message has since fallen off the board and i have no idea who it was (as i said memory of a goldfish)
well the next days that he will be available will be Saturday the 13th of June and wednesday 17th June, if anyone wants to book in on those days please call me /PM me of e mail me via the web site as i hold the diary for Andi
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CEM, that was me, cheers for that, I will check with my diary and make sure she hasn't booked us in for anything on those dates and get back to you.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CEM, is that something I need 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Boredsurfing, you won't know until you're measured but it's well worth it IMO.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing, I reckon I need it I have sever pronation in my feet (my arches collapse, I have flat feet). As a result, even with orthotic inserts I tend to stand on the inside edges of my boots when I stand naturally. I'm *hoping* that CEM might be able to sort me out so that I'm flat. Fingers crossed!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I was originally a sceptic about this kind of alignment work, for no other reason than I couldn't believe that tilting my platform by a few degrees or raising a binding by a few millimetres could make a discernible difference to my skiing. I've been proved wrong. Last year Andi McCann did my lateral alignment and I ended up with +3° shims under each foot and I noticed an immediate difference in how I felt the edges engaging in the snow. Last week CEM saw me crash through some slalom gates rather inelegantly and suggested I try raising the toe binding by a few millimetres to enable better fore/aft balance. After a visit to his pie shop I ended up with 3mm (4mm?) shims under each toe binding and it's no exaggeration to say that I was astonished how this small change felt so completely different when I did a few runs at Hemel yesterday. I'm still trying to get used to it, and haven't yet worked out why it feels so different, and what I need to do to make use of this change, but it did make a huge difference to the feeling I got through the turn. I'd say it's well worth playing with this stuff to see what differences it might make to your skiing.
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rob@rar, Like bobblehat, I've not been skiing that long and hadn't heard of this before. Presumably the adjustments are made to the skis/bindings and can only be done if you have your own skis?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Iski, this process is known as boot 'balancing' & additional work that's done once you have the right size of boot with a quality custom footbed to stabilise/support your foot in the boot. The basic premis is that although your boots may be a great fit it doesn't mean that the ski bases will be flat on the snow when you think they are. Correct boot fit also doesn't mean that you will be correctly balanced in the fore/aft plane etc.
In most cases the adjustments are made to your boots. Lateral alignment is done with internal shims underneath the boot liner & fore/aft tilting if required can be done by adding shims to the underside of the toe/heel of the boot & then machining down the boot lugs back to the din spc etc. Not all makes/models of boots can be machined (mine can't as the lugs are hollow) so that's when shims can be put under the bindings on the skis to give the correct height of the heel versus the toe (known as delta). Even if you don't have your own skis it's well worth being balanced as each make of binding has a different delta or tilt so Colin/Andi can recommend which make to rent etc.
Check out: http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/view/47/69/
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 27-05-09 21:37; edited 1 time in total
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Iski, I'm no expert but as I understand it the type of binding and how it's fixed to the ski determines what kind of adjustments can be made. There's not a lot of adjustment possible if the bindings are fitted to the ski on rails (so called integral bindings). Alternatively you can make adjustment to the ski boot, but this depends on the construction of the boot (it needs a solid sole which is either ground down or has plates screwed to lift the base up, and these are normally found in race boots rather retail boots). Best ask an expert like CEM.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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nbt, not knock kneed are you? The quality of orothoses and their function vary enormously, many of the custom orthoses I have seen fitted in the 'chains' are little more than boot fillers with little understanding of the effect of foot alignment in the boot and the subsequent effect on knee and pelvis.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon, rob@rar, Thanks to both of you for taking the time to explain. I do have my own boots and really want to ski as well as I can (especially as I am a late starter!) so I think that is something I will look into as soon as possible. Is it very expensive to do?
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anarchicsaltire, not that I kow of, but my orthoses were done by my BUPA consultant for everyday use and are not skiing specific
Iski, I think the initial consultation is £90 or so, plus the cost of any work that needs to be done i guess?
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You know it makes sense.
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Iski, You'd need to check with CEM but IIRC the cost of the boot balancing testing & corrective shims etc is approx £80-£100 depending what needs doing, plus approx £100 for his superb custom vaccuum moulded footbeds if you haven't already got decent ones. The problem for many people is that their boots are too big to start with & if that's the case it's best to rectify that problem first.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I got this work done recently, Andi and Colin gave me some good tips on how to get more miles per gallon from my car so what I'll save in fuel over the next six months will pay for the work . 
The boots feel really good and my skis now lie flat (which they did not before).
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, I haven't got money to burn but that sounds quite reasonable, especially if it does turn out to improve my skiing. It's also not a very large amount compared with the money spent on boots, ski clothes, lessons and holidays!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Iski wrote: |
| spyderjon, I haven't got money to burn but that sounds quite reasonable, especially if it does turn out to improve my skiing. It's also not a very large amount compared with the money spent on boots, ski clothes, lessons and holidays! |
My thoughts exactly.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CEM, It could have been me too. Another PM on the way.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mosha Marc, I think it was.
And I've just finally 'got' your Gele Baby signature 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| I was astonished how this small change felt so completely different when I did a few runs at Hemel yesterday. I'm still trying to get used to it, and haven't yet worked out why it feels so different, and what I need to do to make use of this change, but it did make a huge difference to the feeling I got through the turn. I'd say it's well worth playing with this stuff to see what differences it might make to your skiing. |
hmmmm i refer the previously sceptical gentlemen to this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=44226#1059886
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| I was astonished how this small change felt so completely different when I did a few runs at Hemel yesterday. I'm still trying to get used to it, and haven't yet worked out why it feels so different, and what I need to do to make use of this change, but it did make a huge difference to the feeling I got through the turn. I'd say it's well worth playing with this stuff to see what differences it might make to your skiing. |
hmmmm i refer the previously sceptical gentlemen to this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=44226#1059886 |
I think the fore/aft balance feels much more significant than lateral balance, although difficult to know for sure as not skied the new setup much this week (been teaching ankle-biters, so hardly on skis at all!).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I think the fore/aft balance feels much more significant than lateral balance, although difficult to know for sure as not skied the new setup much this week (been teaching ankle-biters, so hardly on skis at all!).
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agreed thats why i gave it 4 1/2 out of 5 !!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, you weren't too shabby even with wonky fore-aft balance the other week. However you've now promised us improvement on top of that, so no pressure Monday night or anything 
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You know it makes sense.
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RPF, good isnt it....
spread the gospel
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In his book, The All Mountain Skier, Mark Elling talks about his experience with delta angle (page 212 if you have the book) after buying new skis and bindings. Suddenly he found himself with a squatty stance suffering from thigh burn with tips diving in powder and hooking during turns. He moved the bindings back which fixed the tip diving but not the rest of the issues. To make a long story short, he sorted his delta and with it all his problems. With the correct delta he could put the bindings back to their original position without sacrificing powder performance. At this time he didn't have the benefit of analysis like that done by Andi to predict what delta he should have so being an experimenter he just tried different sized shims. When he put too much he stood too tall and his skis felt too long. By too much he meant 1/8 of an inch (3mm ish) 1/16 was right for him. Its doesn't seem a lot but clearly makes a big difference. But if thought of another way when that 1/16th of an inch at the bottom of a 5-6ft+ person will get translated into bigger changes further up the body which we will try to compensate for by changing our stance. As Spyderjon pointed out different binding brands have different relative heel and toe heights so changing your binding could change your delta.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CEM, I can't make either of the dates in June  Do you have any dates yet for later in the year ??
Thanks
Sheila
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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bobblehat, not as yet, but we try to do one of these days at least once a month depending on demand, when we get these ones out the way we will come up with the next dates
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM, what proportion of skiers do you think have sufficient issues with balance/alignment to see a significant improvement from having this work done? I'm sure a lot of people will find it difficult to self-diagnose balance or alignment problems and it is a costly procedure if you find you're actually balanced/aligned correctly to start off with!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sideshow_Bob, i would say that most people would get some benefit, it depends on which area if any needs work, medial/lateral tends to get all the focus, fore / aft is often times more important and often it is that where the biggest difference is made
if I ever assess someone and they genuinely do not need some level of adjustment then i don't charge them, if we assess them and they choose not to go ahead then we charge an assessment fee, the prices quoted are for complete assessment and adjustments
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Interesting thread this, as CEM knows my missus has 'issues' with sore feet, and I'm wondering wether alignment may help?
Is there a test you can do at home? Ie clip into skis wearing your boots and see if the ski's lie flat, or ????
Cheers,
greg
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greg,
couple of simple ones (these are not definative but a start)
1 stand on a hard surface with ski boots on feet hip width apart (no wider) drop a plumb bob from the centre of knee mass NOT the centre of the patella and see where it falls, inside or outside of the centre casting line of the boot
2 as RPF did stand on skis on a soft surface and see what happens to the skis, do they lie on the inside or outside edges of flat
3 place a magazine or other 3-8mm item under the toe of the boots , then under the heel of the boot then remove all together ...note the differences in balance
all the obviuos things need to be looked at first footbed, boot fit, cuff ajustment, spoilers in or out, boot ramp angle, boot forward lean, binding delta angle etc etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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cheers CEM, it may be easier to get her to drop by again if she is ever in the area..........
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CEM, Ok thank you thats good news, i was praying i wasn;t going to miss out . If possible could you try and remember to let me know the next lot of dates pls 
Thanks
She
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FAQ
's will soon find out 
)
