If you can ski blue runs you can become a ski instructor

A snowHead

Was just doing some googling and came across this site

http://www.skiacademyswitzerland.com/index.php

then in the FAQ was this corker ....

3. What level do I need to be to enrol onto a SAS/RAS course?
Unlike many ski training providers we have a low entry level and this level reflects on the ability of our coaches to get the best out of the students and reach the standard required to pass the instructor qualifications. We do however, ask that students must be able to ski blue runs comfortably and with confidence.

Hmmmm ... outrageous statement ?

A snowHead

I've been on BASI courses with some people on Ski Academy Switzerland gap courses. Not all of them were at the standard to pass BASI L1.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I wonder if it is a typo as the following is taken from their PDF brochure :

3. What level do I need to be to enrol onto a SAS/RAScourse?
Unlike many ski training providers we have a low entry level and this level reflects on the ability of
our coaches to get the best out of the students and reach the standard required to pass the
instructor qualifications. We do however, ask that students must be able to ski or ride red runs
comfortably and with confidence.

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Are there any 'introductory' ski instruction courses where you actually have to be a pretty decent skier to attend? wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Aren't they saying that's the entry level for the training course?

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masmith, I thought for a minute there I was qualified to start instructing.. but I see from the typo amendment.. that my dreams are now shattered... wink

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To be fair, the point of stuff like CSIA1 is that you don't have to be that great a skier to start teaching... for teaching beginner to intermediate skiers (up to getting them parrallel), it's much more about how you teach, so long as you can demo the low end stuff reasonably well...

After all it is free

masmith, Although it is Switzerland, it is talking about US qualifications, and close association with US ski schools. Perhaps they originally meant US Blue runs, and corrected it to European Reds in the pdf while missing the FAQ?

For our BASI L1 we had to ski at a reasonable standard at a personal level as well as being able to demonstrate pretty good Central Theme (beginner through to rough parallel turns) progression. Personal performance work included decent short radius turns on black pistes and fast, carved GS javelins on blues, plus some rudimentary bumps.

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DaveC, Yes, I think that is what they are saying. So if you can ski blue runs (or red, depending on which version you are reading) you can begin training to become a ski instructor. I had no idea that such little ski/knowledge or experience was required to begin on the teaching ladder. Comes as a huge surpirse to see this, if it is so. I could sort of accept the red run version, but I would have expected any prospective instructor (or trainee instructor) to satisfty those conditions on black pistes ... ??

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Their website is a bit painful, but as far as I can tell the minimum course length is 4 weeks too, and 11 is the standard. I'd really of thought a 4 week course can get anyone through a level 1... Nonstop do their CSIA1 on week 6 I think, and afaik basi/csia1 aren't too different.

Famousley on Natives there was a chap who accepted a job as a ski guide/host who couldn't actually ski and posted asking if anyone knew how to learn to ski quickly Laughing

You know it makes sense.

i have a couple of 'ski instructor' friends who passed level 1 in Canada. 5 years later neither can ski bumps or powder. They did some instructing, but weren't allowed to free ski in their instructor jackets! They gave up after a couple of years - they were good at teaching beginners but reading between the lines I think they were looked down on by their ski instructor compardres. One tried Level 2 - failed twice. That was the end.

Both ski do nicely shaped turns on blue/red groomers tho Smile

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

gortonator, to be fair, freeskiing in uniform is pretty lame, and usually a pain in the back bottom since you have to be on best behavior and you just know everyone's watching... (apparently the chance of being sued goes up 10x too - gotta love working in north america!)

A snowHead

I got sick of all the CSIA 1/Ski Le Gap kids who used to turn up on our university trips thinking they were the dog's danglies but couldn't ski for the brown smelly stuff. How can you spend 11 weeks being coached and still ski worse than most Billys?

A snowHead

The best thing is to get a BASI (or other governing body) trainer to check out your skiing before investing in a course. It's 34 years since I did BASI 3 (on the old system) and nobody joined the course unless they were competent on black runs. We spent time working on the West Wall of the Coire Cas (which is a steep pitch) and doing compression turns etc.

I did plenty of teaching after that, but it didn't cover bump skiing, powder, steep terrain.

The qualifying standard may be different now. A high proportion of ski teaching is done on green/blue runs, because many people stop learning when they've got to parallel standard. A teacher who's competent at demonstrating up to parallel level on those gradients could be a very good teacher. The tougher stuff isn't necessarily relevant. As I say, it's best to be sure by consulting with someone who trains ski instructors to have a look at your skiing.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Sideshow_Bob, trust me, if you want to build a hatred of trust fund kids... Fernie is a fine place to do it. Grr. I've had a few conversations that went something like "I'm a ski instructor!" - oh cool, where do you work? "What do you mean?"

rolling eyes

Half of the reason I'm so determined to push for my CSIA3 is just to be more qualified than team gap year...

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

its true......a friend of a friend is going to the jasper centre of excllence in january to do his instructor course over 12 weeks with the canadian rockies academy at a cost of £5.5k(includes season ski pass,half board lodging,tutoring,exam fees)....he will become a fully qualified instructor at the end of this period (99% pass rate) AFAIK it is an internationally recognised qualification...the only criteria is that you can negotiate a blue run..this guy has skied for 2 days in glencoe and is a $h!t skier (his words) and can just about manage a blue.....but off he is going...and an instructor he will be....its a fu*king joke.....

okbye

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As I understand it to do Ski Le Gap (and perhaps some other Canadian based gap courses) you don't even have to be able to ski at the start, you can be a complete beginner!! I appreciate the "you don't have to be able to ski that well to teach beginners" argument, but at the same time a ski instructor should be aspirational.

I've seen some BASI L1s teaching in the Alps (one particular example springs to mind) and it was really shocking just how badly some of them ski... The qualification is for teaching on artifical slopes in the UK, and they should stick to that.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

You can do the same sort of thing in sailing - you can do a 3 months course with no experience at all, as in the following extract from the UK Sailing Academy:

After all it is free

snowpatrol, are you RacoonFace on tgr? There's nothing particularly wrong with the 3 month ish intense courses IMO, they do get a *lot* of tuition (4 days of full day lessons a week for 11 weeks for Nonstop, I think I'd actually go crazy).

beanie1, I agree that instructors should be aspirational, but here's a good argument on Epicski about the whole "teaching with an easy qualification" issue... http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/81178/too-newbie-for-csia-l1 (post 9 onwards)

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DaveC, I agree entirely with the argument (BASI is after all a progressive system) and I'd never suggest you'd need to be able to be an ISTD to start teaching people. I just sometimes feel the bar is set a little too low... to teach in the mountains certainly, the whole club instructor for UK slopes is a different argument.

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For what it's worth, skiing isn't the only sport that requires lower levels than you might expect to become an instructor.

Someone might correct me here, but I believe in order to become a Windsurfing instructor (teaching beginners), the required skill level is to have RYA level 2 course under your belt.

To put this in context, I have been on only 3 weeks worth of Mark Warner hols, where I have started to learn how to windsurf and am now up to my RYA level 2 (planing) - therefore I am technically at a level where I could look at training to be instructor.

It doesn't seem enough experience, does it?

Having said that, just because your brilliant at something doesn't guarantee to you'll become a good teacher - so maybe there's nothing wrong with this approach.

A quick caviat: my information is as I was given by my last windsurf instructor. So if I've got it wrong - don't shoot me!

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I've started another thread on a similar topic. Asking how many weeks experience BASI instructors had before doing their L1.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1225845#1225845

I'd guess that the general perception of instructors is that they're all put on the same pedestal - since beginners won't be able to tell the difference between a level 1 and ISTD, and high end skiiers taking lessons will likely get ISIA/ISTDs - so all instructors tend to ski better than their class, luckily Smile

You know it makes sense.

DaveC, unfortunately that wasn't the case somewhere i worked this season... I saw evidence of the worst skiing and teaching from an instructor I have ever experienced. However I shan't go into details here!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

beanie1, I worked with a couple of "unique" people for sure... I feel that's more the ski schools fault than the certs tho?

Arno, I fully hope to "coach" some kids next year Very Happy

A snowHead

DaveC, a bit of both in my view. he knew full well he was not even qualified to teach in the mountains.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I can totally accept this. In order to be a good instructor, you need to be very good at coaching. You do not necessarily need to be good at the thing you're coaching, you just need to be very good at coaching it...

Think of top level sports coaches. Yes some of them are former champions in their fields but definitely not all of them. Pretty sure Lewis Hamilton's coach would be eclipsed by Lewis on a racetrack for example...

However, with skiing, if someone is an expert at both skiing and coaching (as I'm sure our resident snowhead instructors are) then I would suggest they would make the best instructors, Being able to demonstrate technique as well as explaining must be a plus point...

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queen bodecia,

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

beanie1, more than likely. But the point is, you can be a fabulous and fearless skier and a rubbish coach. The combination of both skills would be preferable obviously, but I would rate the coaching ability above the activity ability myself...

For example, I train many of my less experienced colleagues. I am by no means the best designer in my company, but without blowing my own trumpet too much, I am probably the best coach. I certainly seem to achieve the best results...

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queen bodecia,
I agree.

You may be a good coach, and not the best designer, but I'm sure you're a good and experienced designer, and not a bad and inexperienced one! wink

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beanie1, fair point... Very Happy

After all it is free

Teaching involves a lot of demoing of what you want your students to do; you should have a good technical understanding of how skiing works; what the progression is and to have developed a "good eye" to see what your students are doing when you watch them ski. IMO none of that comes from instructors being just one page ahead of their students in the skiing textbook, no matter how good their coaching/teaching skills. Although I have taught on the mountain with my L2, because the system allows it, I'm not entirely confident that it's a high enough standard of qualification to be let loose without working in tandem with a more highly qualified instructor. I think ISIA is a decent starting point, and I wouldn't trust my skiing with anything less than that.

There's always the school of thought that suggests a seriously competent skier might also be seriously bored if they had to spend their days leading crocodiles of pre-school pizza-turning kids down a green run.

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Jonny Jones, you've got to enjoy teaching as much as, if not more than, skiing. Otherwise I think you're right if you have a diet composed entirely of beginners.

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If you can ski blue runs you can become a ski instructor

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