 Poster: A snowHead
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Morning All,
Apologies if this has been asked before, but I wonder if you all at Snowheads can help.
I'm currently looking at doing a season in Jan 2010 (either ski instructing or a season working) but need to look at life post April 2010. Does any one know of a snow industry magazine or website in which ski / snow related jobs are advertised?
I'm hoping to get involved with the management of a ski company / resort or the like. I'm looking for a career change after being a qualified accountant (no boring jokes please!  ) and working in the City (London) for the last 5 years. Any suggestions on how to break into this or who to speak to?
Any advice would be much welcomed!
Bring on the snow next year...
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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br3nnie, Welcome to snowheads. Try natives.co.uk
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks Steve, having heard of natives.co.uk before this very much appears to be resort manager and chalet host biased.
Is there anywhere else which would be more management focused which comes to mind?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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br3nnie, Welcome to snowheads. Which country are you interested in working in? Do you speak the language?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Natives covers the whole range of roles... from Owner/operators all the way down to pot washers...............
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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br3nnie, management jobs tend to go to people with experience in the industry. If you're prepared to stick to bean-counting, permanent accounts positions come up rather more often than other senior roles. Otherwise, expect to do several seasons before you get anything senior/year round. Also bear in mind that most such posts tend to be UK based.
Meanwhile, here are more websites:
http://www.seasonworkers.com/
http://www.ski-jobs.co.uk/
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I'm hoping to either head to North America or Europe (fairly open at present) so should be able to cover American on the language front.
The intention is to do BASI 1 & 2 this coming winter and then get involved either for the rest of the year or for the start of the following season.
The idea is to step away from bean-counting as this is getting somewhat tiresome...
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br3nnie, as Lizzard says m,ost of the time managment jobs in skiing are taken by people already working their way up in the ski industry, it is a pretty small industry so it is rare that gobs of that nature even come up, when they do they get given to a mate of someone who knows before they even get as far as being advertised
it is going to be a tough search, good luck
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The idea is to step away from bean-counting as this is getting somewhat tiresome...
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This is Mr L's point of view as well. But beans always need counting and not everyone is qualified to do it properly, so effective enumerators of pulses are more in demand than ski bums. Unfortunately. 
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Thanks for your input guys.
So it seems the ski industry works the same way as the City: "It's who you know, not what you know!"
So moving one step further, what are the employment prospects like for a Level 2 BASI instructor in Europe after qualification?
Bean-counting seemed like such a good idea at the time. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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br3nnie, AFAIK a BASI level 2 is not going to get you much work in most of europe, prehaps the odd week working for a tour op at half term and the likes teaching kids, but in france even the ISIA doesn't entitle you to work in any form other than a stagier you need an ISTD to work full time , there may be ways around bits of the system and i am sure someone will know them
not some much as what or who you know but more what you've got on who you know 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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br3nnie, the BASI thing will not get you much more than minimum wage, plus its a hefty investment, the real down side is you will be teaching (child-minding) while everyone else is having fun in the snow. To get to a level teaching where you can feed yourself and have fun doing it will require an investment of £25-50k and take 3-5 years. In ski resorts the guy pulling you a pint is a nuclear physicist, and the girl cooking your breakfast a lawyer. Very few people have long term careers in the ski industry even the "managers". To maximise skiing time you need to be free in the day, so bar work or driving; better still save up £10k and be a bum.
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br3nnie, on a different tack, someone I know who works in IT now does IT for a bank in Zurich. He's well paid, and near the snow. Given the time you've invested in your training, that might lead you to a higher quality of life than being a ski bum on less than minimum wage. All the TOs seem to be contracting, rather than expanding.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks guys, it seems that a career in the ski industry is a nice idea but difficult to implement.
Hmmm. Potentially back to the drawing board. bug.
CEM - thanks for the boots: absolutely brilliant!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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br3nnie, BASI Level 2 will get you work i Europe in all but France and Italy. Most Level 2s I know who've wanted to do a full season teaching have managed to find a role, in either Switzerland, Austria, or N America, particularly on the East coast. However, whether the money will be enough to live on is a different matter!
For career instructors Level 2 is really only the first step pn the ladder, and you should aim to progress to ISIA and ISTD as fast as possible. However, this will be very expensive, and unless you are an ex-racer it will probably be a long slog to reach ISTD standard.
Would there be much opportunity to do contract work / temping in your current profession? If so I'd suggest you do that in the summers to earn money and use it to progress quickly through BASI in the winters, with enough time to train.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The thought of working in geneva has appealed before but the change of career is to get away from the desk and be more active. Agreed it would be a more comfortable existence but would still be pretty dull during the day.
How long does it take to become an ISIA and ISTD? And if after many hours of practice you finally make, what are the rewards? Can you make a living from it?
Sorry, I'm just getting to grips with all the terminology and politics. Ie only esf teach in France etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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br3nnie, really depends what level you're at now. If you're already at ISTD standard then maybe 3 years, but it will be a lot of courses close together with teaching experience in between. If you're only say L2 standard now, then once getting your L2 probably another one to two seasons of a bit of teaching and a lot of training and courses to get ISIA. Then maybe double that again to get from ISIA to ISTD. To get ISTD you'll also need to do the speed test which will mean a couple of summers at least of gate training if you've not raced to a good standard before. It's tough! But yes once you are ISTD you can make a good living from it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm a pretty proficient skier at the moment, with no part of the mountain being a worry. Although I have never raced so would need to work on that fairly extensively.
I would need to start at the beginning of the instructing so would need to get through level 1 & 2 as quickly as possible.
With this in mind, is it worth spending the £k's on instructing courses (eg CSIA, PSIA, BASI) unless the intention is to become ISTD? As it seems that you have to pay all this money for 11 weeks of accommodation, training etc with no prospect of using it to any real gain after? I presume its not possible to rent a flat in the mountains and get involved with the instructing courses to keep the costs down?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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br3nnie, if you're at BASI L1 or L2 level now there's no point in doing a 'gap' course, just book straight on to the relevant BASI course. If you're in a rush you can to the L1 course this summer in one of the snowdomes, then do the L2 pre-season (providing you've done your shadowing, 1st Aid and child protection) and be qualified in time for Christmas. You can then start looking for teaching hours for the holiday period and beyond.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I like the idea of doing the courses in the UK to get upto speed quickly. Having looked at the BASI website, can you do all you need to for L1 in the snowdomes?
Also, how easy would it be to get the shadowing experience in the UK or is it a necessity to be overseas?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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br3nnie, contact your local dry slope or snowdome to ask about shadowing. They'll be used to it so I'm sure it'll be fairly easy to get some.
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br3nnie, which is your nearest artificial slope? To complete L1 you need to do the course (5 days), a 1st aid course (minimum of 2 days), 35 hours of shadowing (70 hours before you can book for L2) and a child protection course. All that can be done in the UK.
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br3nnie, The main decision you need to take is BASI or CSIA depending on where you might want to work eventually - you certainly don't need a gap course to do CSIA if your skiing is up to it, much as the providers will big up the intensive tuition required. Alternatively think about how much ski time being an instructor might soak up and whether you can work an accounting job in the off hours e.g. there was always a demand for "night audit" in hotels/resort in Canada IIRC.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fatbob, I think you may find that 'night audit' is just night porter and involves traipsing round the building looking for fires and pished guests. No beans to count there. 
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fatbob, I would agree with the gap course thingy, I believe DaveC just went for it by himself? or is that my imagination.. maybe he would be able to offer the OP some advice along the lines. I would suggest CSIA 2 is easily achievable in a season as long as you get some decent tips of those in the know.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Now CSIA no longer has the ISIA stamp it's really only worth following that path if you only want to work in Canada.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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arv, I think it's generally accepted that your employment prospects are better if you have the ISIA stamp?
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You know it makes sense.
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beanie1, agreed. Still plenty countries where CSIA is perfectly acceptable (pretty much everywhere but a select few European countries).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Expect to be working with children...
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The beginnner instructors here have to spend most of the season dressed up as a huge furry penguin ski mascot, be careful what you wish for !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I gather that in some resorts work for the ESF was 30% down this season. I know that some TO's are cutting back dramatically on the number of rooms they are committing to taking up from hotels with advance booking. Bluntly, it looks to me as though the industry is feeling the effects of the recession, so competition for work will be fierce, and newcomers can expect a tough time. I'd stick to accounting.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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achilles, 30% was bandied about by a few Brit instructors in the 3V's as well. Also heard of a few new ISTD's not able to get permanent jobs in France. Used to be that a Brit ISTD could get as much work as they wanted in France but the recession has hit....
br3nnie, Get your L1 in a snow dome or dry slope ASAP and see if you enjoy the teaching side of the job while you do your shadowing hours. If not just go ski and supplant your income in other ways, if teaching is fun bash out your L2 in a couple weeks in the mountains and get a weeks work with interski or similar. You wont have had to make a major committment in time but you will have seen all aspects of the job, if it is for you you will know..
Unless you take your qualifications all the way it will always just be a "hobby job" IMO
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Stick to the accounting and just take more time off to go skiing. Even if you only worked part time as an accountant, I'm sure you'd still earn much more than most ski instructors and resort reps anyway. I've thought about jacking in a highly paid job to head off for the snow on several occasions, but then I realised with a bit of planning I could ski for 5 weeks a year plus weekend trips if I wanted more. So which is better, a full season teaching kids and beginners while barely scraping a living, or 35 days free skiing with friends and family on your own terms and a decent year round lifestyle?
Don't be so hasty to give up what you already have. Just make more room in your life for quality snow time. The obvious solution for you would be to take an accounting job within a city close to the snow. You could argue that London is not so far away from the slopes.
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uktrailmonster, I found the training i got towards my Anwarter among the more interesting weeks on skis, so even when not sure about persueing a ski-career this may well be interesting.
Get Basi2 level, and apply for a job during MidTerm ?
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An ISTD I know was made redundant from his London based job in Jan. Since then he's been doing private lessons in the 3V. 10 days with one client was enough to pay his mortgage in the UK for a whole year! So there is good money to be earnt - but he has an established client base.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A couple of years ago, the kids had a BASS instructor in morzine who also worked part time as a self employed accountant. He said all he needed was a laptop and internet connection, most of his clients were in the UK.
Could this be the route to go down?
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br3nnie, How about finding a summer season accountants job in the UK (with a leisue park?) and then spend the winter season in the Alps doing whatever you can
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FAQ
seemed logical to me that you might want someone to come in at night and check takings matched the system.