 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hmm... not sure not falling over is part of the deal if you're learning 
With a lifetime of alpine behind you you'll no doubt reflexively default to alpine mid turn if anything starts to go wrong but I thought this inhibited my learning somewhat. I found I have to think about consciously weighting the inside (rear) ski.
Doing parallel one way and tele the other is a good idea to ensure you're not trying to bite too much off in 1 run (and give you time to recover and prepare for the next lunge.)
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fatbob, Yes, I resorted to alpine very often - as soon as there was the slightest pitch. Good idea on the parallel/tele alternatates.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Interesting advice, thank you all. I didn't know I had to weight the inside ski .... hmmmmm I found I could sort of do it, but not with any weight on the inside ski. I'm sure it would help if I had boots that fit, but no excuses.
geoffers, What you're saying about the arm ties in with my above-mentioned 'signpost arms' exercise.
holidayloverxx, I noticed the guys who tried in in Wengen also fell over a lot. I think this actually shows (sorry) a lack of core balance skills rather than anything to do with telemark itself. I had several serious wobbles, but only once came close to falling.
Yes it was fun, I'm looking forward to my lesson today, just a shame I have to work alpine just before it.  More later
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easiski, sounds fun! Enjoy your lesson.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, edge change before lead change is probably the most important thing I've learnt. There are a couple of useful videos here - "mono-telemark" and "putting it all together".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The art is all in the little toe of your rear ski (and in staying on the ball of the foot on that ski) IMO. Once I started feeling that intuitively I had a lot mor econfidence in the turn.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It clicked on my second day in VT and in the PM was able to (just) keep up with the Lardy Nutters and Kramer on Plan Sud. I'm much less a toe dragger and not quite as low as I was. Knees hurt less as I get lighter.
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| easiski wrote: |
holidayloverxx, I noticed the guys who tried in in Wengen also fell over a lot. I think this actually shows (sorry) a lack of core balance skills rather than anything to do with telemark itself. I had several serious wobbles, but only once came close to falling. |
don't be sorry, in my case at least you're spot on.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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easiski,
If conditions at LDA are anything like Alpe D'Huez were last week then you were doing well. I found doing teleturns in the slush hard. I could manage the lower runs into the resort OK, but I needed to ski quite fast and it was hard work. Staying down in the tele postion should give more fore aft stability for the real sticky moments - though I nearly headplanted a couple of times when hitting extensive areas of liquid slush. Higher up I could manage most of the pisted blacks and reds whilst they were not mogulled, but as soon as bumps started appearing it was back to parallel turns, this was true of even quite gentle reds and blues. If the bumps hadn't been slush I could probably have tele'd them.
Moguls on anything steep and I'm back to parallel - did Tunnel 3 times - once in the afternoon when it had softened and twice a couple of days later when it had a deep coat of fresh powder over the bumps. The bumps were parallel only though I did manage a few not very elegant tele turns in the powder. I always try and throw in at least a few tele turns somewhere on every run I do .
As a self taught tele skier, the things I have found I need to concentrate on are:
Weighting the back ski
Edge change before lead change (I'm still bad at this and it tends to catch me out in poor snow conditions)
Keeping my front knee over the toe of the boot
If conditions are poor, in bumps, when its steep, or trying to keep up with friends on alpine kit I often end up doing parallel turns.
Still I enjoy skiing on telekit much more than on alpine kit even if I end up doing parallel turns. I still can't do fast short radius tele turns.
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Poster: A snowHead
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moffatross, you have no soul
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| moffatross, you have no soul |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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  I had a lesson today with Renato of the European Ski School. It was really interesting. He got me going much lower than I had been, got much more weight on the inside (trailing) ski, and also got me to stay much squarer to the skis. You can see in the pix that I'm getting quite low, but not getting enough fore/aft separation. I need to practise. One thing I learned though, is that I need more consolidation time in between things. He was getting me to try this and try that, and although I didn't get confused, I was looking for my 'one step at a time' approach, and not feeling 100% comfortable. Still, I now have lots of things to practise tomorrow and I think I'll go to the glacier if it's not too windy. On Friday I'll be back on alpine (I did 1.5 hours teaching on alpine first thing this morning). Renato is really quite inspirational and very enthusiastic and is already saying things like 'we've got all summer'.
After 1.5 hours (I paid for 2), my left knee in particular was really hurting, so I called it a day, however my back is fine today - that was clearly something I was doing wrong yesterday.
Aparently I have a problem turning right in that I'm using too much edge on the outside ski (I turn better to the right on alpine), and it's harder for me to allow the skis to slide. I can side slip though.
Anyway, another installment tomorrow, and comments will be more than welcome.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, Thanks for the link. Renato has a much greater split fore/aft and wants me to 'fall' in between the feet.
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easiski, As with many things skiing, the primary objectives are( ):
balance on a sliding platform
point skis where one wants to go
make skis go where they are pointing
Once primary objectives are met, the next objective is to make it as efficient as possible.
By the sound of things you have things well on the way!
As an interesting bonus, you will probably become extra aware of your fore-aft balance once back on alpine kit.
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slider_tom, welcome to snowHeads. You might like to know that easiski is an alpine ski instructor of many years' standing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski,
| Quote: |
| my left knee in particular was really hurting, so I called it a day |
I know it's early days yet, but sore knees could well be from staying too "down" for too long - don't forget to come back up after making the turn.
Standing tall between turns can also be a great aid to lead-changing, as your legs come "together" when you're up, as you lead change then sink into the next turn
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As I read more about tele (I know, too much reading, not enough doing), I keep seeing this lead-change vs edge-change. I have a very naive question.
Shouldn't lead change happen during the brief (or not so brief) "edge neutral" phase?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abc,
| Quote: |
| Shouldn't lead change happen during the brief (or not so brief) "edge neutral" phase? |
correct - that's the goal we're aiming for but it takes some time to achieve.
I'm happy now that I'm light on the skis thru' the lead-change and the new edge-set doesn't happen until I'm into the next t-turn.
If you edge set before lead change you end up with a sort of "para-mark" turn, as you are first getting into almost a p-turn stance before making the lead change into the next t-turn. This is OK(ish) as most of us have come form an alpine background, so this feels a stable base, but as technique & confidence develops the edge set should come after the change.
Here's some stuff I posted on an (often controversial ) thread last year...
| Quote: |
I've dredged up some shots taken on the Hintertux glacier in May 2004 (in some pretty cruddy, wet powder) where me & a mate were videoing each other. (You'll have to excuse the quality of the shots, as they were cut from a Quicktime movie, pasted into a word doc which I printed, and have subsequently lost all the electronic originals, so have just photographed the paper documents - gives it an air of something from the last century).
We were working on pole-plants as a timing focus, as my mate has the classic alpine skier's lead-change problem where he changes the lead into a parallel stance (where he feels comfortable) THEN plants the pole to initiate the turn and steps into a telemark stance and sinks into the next tele-turn.
The annotations & comments on the photos should show what we were trying to identify:
Hopefully I've got the timing a bit better - planting, unweighting & lead-changing while I'm high, then sinking & steering into the next turn (although I expect to be totally shot down in flames now  )
Oh, and if you look closely, you can see that there is reasonably equal pressure on both skis by the similar amount of snow being thrown up by the 2 skis (ducks....  )
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easiski,
| Quote: |
| OTOH I do have knee problems anyway |
ouch - don't I just know it  - I've just returned from an ACL rebuild last May so only got 7days on ski this year (and only one on teles)
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You know it makes sense.
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| easiski wrote: |
After 1.5 hours (I paid for 2), my left knee in particular was really hurting, so I called it a day, however my back is fine today - that was clearly something I was doing wrong yesterday.
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I imagine the small split and low stance causes you to bend your trailing knee quite a bit more then when using a larger split/higher stance.
The guy from Privat Wengen told us to keep the knee below the hip of the trailing ski, while you seem 6+" forward at least.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ronald, Yes - I just don't seem to be able to get it until after the turn at the moment. I'm going back up today, but it's windy on the glacier so I'll probably just do an hour on the Cretes again. I'm not going to wear my knee brace today as I think that didn't help. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sounds pretty good to me. I wouldn't get too hung up on doing things exactly as Renato wants if you are more comfortable in a tall stance. After all they say "if there was just one way of doing it, it would be called alpine"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And I wouldn't worry about doing parallel turns - if you read Paul Parker's book about half of it is on doing parallel turns (on tele kit). I tend to switch from tele to parallel when its icy, in bumps and when I start getting tired (if I'm out all day). Though if I'm out on my own trying to improve my tele turns I'll try and do as few parallel turns as possible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, I trust you're not planning to bring any tele-turns into the Fast 'n Easy camp? I don't think I'm up to that. Or is it down to it?
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easiski, another thing the guy from Privat said was "low stance" is not "better" then a "high stance"; It is a style. In fact he used a higher stance then you in the photos.
It may not be as esthetically pleasing, but maybe try a higher stance with a bit more split, at least untill you get comfortable?
The rotation at the end of the turn sounds familiar to me; Improved lots as I gained balance and confidence doing the lead change.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks all. I shall try to get out for a bit tomorrow, and then that's it until the summer season. pam w, Fastman did say I should teach him to do it! 
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On the same subject - anyone know of any trainers (basi telemark) who run course for plebs (like me) who want to learn. Ok, I can alpine a bit but telemark, never done it, so that the level I'm looking for. Any links would be nice. Cheers.
easiski,
Did you get it in the end, how long does it (did it) take. Few days, Few weeks ??
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 2-05-09 20:16; edited 1 time in total
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FAQ
- a few things I found helpful when I was learning (on Dendix 
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